40 minutes ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

But my TDS works perfectly with 5 other good quality addons in MSFS.

It is purely the FSW Lear 35A that shows this very inconsistent behaviour.

It will work sometimes and other times... not.

Even using Heading Mode with the TDS not even active and it's terrible.

 

Hmmm mine seems to work just fine.  Do you also have the PMS 50 gtn installed?

Hi Ryan.

So it turns out that full ILS capture only works properly from GPS NAV mode.

As I do a lot of manual vectoring using HDG mode, switching to ILS intercept means two things:

1. It intercepts the Localiser just fine.

But...

2. If I then arm GS, this appears to disable Localiser tracking... but doesn't tell you... i.e. the NAV is still showing as Cap in green.

However -- the glideslope is NOT captured.

This means it is of very limited use.

It is made worse by the fact that the vertical AP modes, like Alt Hold, is momentarily disabled if you switch between different lateral modes.

For example: switch from GPS NAV following the magenta line, to HDG mode already set,and as the aircraft turns (which it does very sharply) it drops out of the sky like a sack of potatoes, at a rate of some 4000fpm.

It is VERY unstable and unpredictable using the TDS GTN... which when you are used to it acting perfectly in 4 or 5 other planes (from Blacksquare to A2A) is just intolerable.

In and of itself the addon is fine. But I'll put in on the BB for a while.

Edited June 21, 20241 yr by Denny_Crane_747

8 minutes ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

It is VERY unstable and unpredictable using the TDS GTN... which when you are used to it acting perfectly in 4 or 5 other planes (from Blacksquare to A2A) is just intolerable.

Again, do you have the PMS50 GTN installed at the same time?

-B

6 minutes ago, btacon said:

Again, do you have the PMS50 GTN installed at the same time?

-B

No. I have the TDS -- which is fantastic.  Why I would I bother with anything else ?

It clearly states in a little .jpeg image in the documentation, that ILS is only captured from Nav mode with the TDS ... which I assume means GPS Nav mod.

The TDS website documents over a dozen updates over recent months that often relate only to the FSW plane/s.

http://forum.tdssim.com/thread-15.html

It is FSW that cannot get their plane to work with the TDS. This much is very clear.

So it may work if you follow a FP along the Magenta Road from start to finish, but do not deviate... there be monsters !

40 minutes ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

Hi Ryan.

So it turns out that full ILS capture only works properly from GPS NAV mode.

As I do a lot of manual vectoring using HDG mode, switching to ILS intercept means two things:

1. It intercepts the Localiser just fine.

But...

2. If I then arm GS, this appears to disable Localiser tracking... but doesn't tell you... i.e. the NAV is still showing as Cap in green.

However -- the glideslope is NOT captured.

This means it is of very limited use.

It is made worse by the fact that the vertical AP modes, like Alt Hold, is momentarily disabled if you switch between different lateral modes.

For example: switch from GPS NAV following the magenta line, to HDG mode already set,and as the aircraft turns (which it does very sharply) it drops out of the sky like a sack of potatoes, at a rate of some 4000fpm.

It is VERY unstable and unpredictable using the TDS GTN... which when you are used to it acting perfectly in 4 or 5 other planes (from Blacksquare to A2A) is just intolerable.

In and of itself the addon is fine. But I'll put in on the BB for a while.

Are you able to post screenshots of the cockpit when you're on a heading and when you press NAV, and what happens when you press GS?

Intercept can be a bit finicky on the ILS.  If you're too far from the loc, it'll be too shallow.  But I've never had the GS not intercept.

Edited June 21, 20241 yr by ryanbatc

43 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

Are you able to post screenshots of the cockpit when you're on a heading and when you press NAV, and what happens when you press GS?

Intercept can be a bit finicky on the ILS.  If you're too far from the loc, it'll be too shallow.  But I've never had the GS not intercept.

Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

As I said, they admit you can only intercept a full ILS App from Nav mode.

And it works fine in the other planes including Blacksquare and A2A.

But worse is altitude hold issues / porpoising.

Try a downwind leg on an ILS App ... using the GPS plan in Nav mode, at say 3000ft in Alt Hold.

Then move the Heading Bug to say 80 degrees to the right of your current course.

Then... switch straight to heading mode. Tell me you don't nose dive at 4000 ft per minute as it turns sharply.

If it doesn't,  I need a full reinstall !

Edited June 21, 20241 yr by Denny_Crane_747

14 minutes ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

 

Then move the Heading Bug to say 80 degrees to the right of your current course.

 

And you're intercepting the ILS at no more than 30 degrees right?  If the final approach course is 270, you're either on a 300 or 240 heading when you press NAV and GS?

I'd love to see some pics...it's hard to tell what the AP is doing and where you're at on the approach.

Yes and yes.

https://ibb.co/G5zhfVG

So Loc is being tracked... as it's the same as it's basically still tracking the Magenta line.

Once you press the FS button it arms but then the plane starts to wonder away from the Localiser.

Loc + GS = Appr  ....   and this is only done properly, if GS is selected directly from GPS Nav mode.

Now, at the point in the image if I were to switch to Hdg mode to get back on track, the plane stops out of the sky.

It is VERY unstable, inconsistent and more important Ryan... as you know ... unpredictable. It is this that makes it very frustrating to fly... for now.

I really hope it gets sorted but don't hold out much hope.

So:  a SU comes out... FSW stops working... TDS create patch... it works for a bit... and then it stops working. And so the cycle repeats.

Other planes using the GTN do not have this issue. So something is wrong with the way the entire thing (FSW Lear autopilot) is implemented.

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 20241 yr by Denny_Crane_747

22 minutes ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

Loc + GS = Appr  ....   and this is only done properly, if GS is selected directly from GPS Nav mode.

What happens if you fly steam guage? With no GPS at all just vor/dme /hdg nav? Does it work as it should for you then? Is it ONLY with the TDS installed you get this behavior? I know you obviously don't get gps nav without a GPS but I want to know if vor nav and hdg mode work to intercept. Diagnostics 😎

21 hours ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

So something is wrong with the way the entire thing (FSW Lear autopilot) is implemented.

I don't think that is the case or there would be a ton of reports similar to yours on the very active Flysimware Discord site, and that is just not the case. In fact, there are a number of real life Learjet pilots active on the Discord that use the TDS GTN750 and are quite happy with the current implementation of the Learjet.

If interested, here's an easy "experiment" worth trying. Suggest you reinstall the Lear's latest update, but with this caveat.  Normally the installer first uninstalls your current install, and then installs the "new" one. However, if some of the files in your current install are corrupted, or were changed somehow, the uninstall may not work as intended and this can lead to problems. So suggest you rename your Community folder to back it up and then create a new Community folder. Then reinstall the Lear into this new empty Community folder along with just the latest TDS GTN750 and see if this makes a difference. This procedure has helped a number of users that had strange problems, and checks for a Community folder conflict along with a possible install issue. If this seems to help, then add back your other Community folder addons.

Al

 

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by ark

3 hours ago, ark said:

I don't think that is the case or there would be a ton of reports similar to yours on the very active Flysimware Discord site, and that is just not the case. In fact, there are a number of real life Learjet pilots active on the Discord that use the TDS GTN750 and are quite happy with the current implementation of the Learjet.

If interested, here's an easy "experiment" worth trying. Suggest you reinstall the Lear's latest update, but with this caveat.  Normally the installer first uninstalls your current install, and then installs the "new" one. However, if some of the files in your current install are corrupted, or were changed somehow, the uninstall may not work as intended and this can lead to problems. So suggest you rename your Community folder to back it up and then create a new Community folder. Then reinstall the Lear into this new empty Community folder along with just the latest TDS GTN750 and see if this makes a difference. This procedure has helped a number of users that had strange problems, and checks for a Community folder conflict along with a possible install issue. If this seems to help, then add back your other Community folder addons.

Al

 

Bad logic.

As I have said. Most people fly the magenta line so  works fine !!!

They ADMIT the TDS will NOT do an ILS intercept from Heading mode. The WT GNS does, I believe.

I just did a perfect ILS from heading mode in the Blacksquare TBM yesterday, with the same TDS installed.

IT WAS FINE !

I do wish people would read posts fully BEFORE suggesting I ghave no clue what I'm doing.

Of course the latest versions are installed.

I say it one last time BEFORE I unsubscribe from this post: beware if you use the TDS 750 -- unlike your experience with every other addon you use it with, the FSW is very unstable, inconsistent and infuriating.

(Don't get me started on the plane falling out of the sky when you switch from GPS NAV mode to Heading Mode. Porpoise heaven.)

Dreadful implementation.

 

 

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by Denny_Crane_747

1 hour ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

I do wish people would read posts fully

Did you read any test my last post? I want to know 100% if your Lear intercepts ils the way you want WITHOUT the TDS. 

4 hours ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

unlike your experience with every other addon you use it with, the FSW is very unstable, inconsistent and infuriating.

(Don't get me started on the plane falling out of the sky when you switch from GPS NAV mode to Heading Mode. Porpoise heaven.)

Dreadful implementation.

 

 

relax, no need to get all worked up and have a stroke.  works fine on pms750.

6 hours ago, Denny_Crane_747 said:

Bad logic.

As I have said. Most people fly the magenta line so  works fine !!!

They ADMIT the TDS will NOT do an ILS intercept from Heading mode. The WT GNS does, I believe.

I just did a perfect ILS from heading mode in the Blacksquare TBM yesterday, with the same TDS installed.

IT WAS FINE !

I do wish people would read posts fully BEFORE suggesting I ghave no clue what I'm doing.

Of course the latest versions are installed.

I say it one last time BEFORE I unsubscribe from this post: beware if you use the TDS 750 -- unlike your experience with every other addon you use it with, the FSW is very unstable, inconsistent and infuriating.

(Don't get me started on the plane falling out of the sky when you switch from GPS NAV mode to Heading Mode. Porpoise heaven.)

Dreadful implementation.

 

 

Well, I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but unfortunately you have confirmed what I suspected based on the nature of your previous responses (and probably your subsequent responses) to folks here.

Al

Denny_Crane_747.    I am a real life (retired) Learjet pilot with 12,000+ hours in various Learjet Models including 8,000 in Lear 35s.   I am a volunteer beta testers for the FSW 35a.  I do not work for FSW but I love flying their FSW LR35a.
I monitor and post on Discord's Flysimware LLC giving and receiving advice about the FSW LR35a and comparing the MSFS experience to flying the actual aircraft.

I fly the sim version of the LR35a almost every day and use all three versions of the GPS systems frequently because I fly often to confirm or deny (if that is the proper word) what people are saying about the LR35a software.

The TDS version of the 750 has had issues that in the recent weeks that the FSW devs had tried, and suceeded, to improve on within the limitations of what the TDSSIM folks have done and ASOBO limitations.

As of this date the TDS 750 No Longer has problems with many of the issues you have listed.   I usually fly using the TDS GTNXi unless I am testing and, with a minor exception that the TDSSIM folks are aware of, the 750 is working well.  (The 'SMART GLIDE' message advisory won't clear any time the aircraft is above 36,000'.  The TDSSIM folks are aware of the cause and it will be fixed in the next update.

If you don't want to hear advice or help on how to correct some or all of you issues, please stop reading now and move on.  By the tone of your previous posts I am not sure you do want help as you already 'know what you are doing'.

1.  The graphic you are quoting saying the ILS cannot be intercepted in the manner we are accustomed to is out of date and not really true anyway.

2.  The Primary reason that folds have issues with the TDS, and any other GPS/NAV system is that the FSW 35a and the Nav System MUST both be up-to-date with the current version.  Every update in one set of software can cause the need for the 3rd party vendors to update their software and on and on back and forth.  Both sides are working hard to keep up.

3.  The next important reason that folks have problems with the TDS is that the FSW 35a and the TDS GTNXi MUST both be installed in a specific manner or problems WILL exist.  Namely, regardless of any instructions on how to install the aircraft AND the GPS systems, any OLD previous version of the software systems must be removed from the Community folder before running the install program.   The FSW install .exe is designed to remove all the old stuff but sometimes fails to remove hidden code or code that is duplicated in more than one place.  But bad, duplicate, or corrupted code is not always removed by the install software.  Dare I say 'frequently'.

4. I always go to General Options Data and clear the software cache anytime I do a MSFS 2020 or 3rd party app update.

5. If you have any 3rd party liveries for a particular aircraft in the Community folder AND the same livery is 'in game' for an aircraft there is a good chance of a conflict.    To test for conflicts, remove 3rd party liveries from Community and see if that livery is still available in the 'Select Aircraft' menu at start of World Map.  If it is there do not put it back in Community.

My current directory name in the Community Directory for the FSW 35a is Community\flysimware-learjet-35a and the manifest.json file AND the MSFS 2020 'Content Manager' both report Package Version 1.4.0.
The current directory name for the TDS 750 is Community\tda-gtnxi-gauge and its manifest.json 'Package Version' as well as the MSFS 'Content Manager' both report 1.0.14.

The bizarre behavior you are reporting indicates to me you have a major install issue somewhere and that making certain your versions are up-to-date and deleting any old versions in Community will go a long way toward solving your problems (with the LR35a  🙂  )

Give the suggestions a try.   Trust me on this.  

Cheers Headwind  (on Flysimware LLC: Discord)

 

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by HeadwindH