Hey all, wasnt really sure where to put this but either way, sorry if it’s in the wrong section.

How do you guys think MSFS and DCS stack up agianst each other in terms of systems simulation (and also overall)? Talking the top MSFS airliners (E.g PMDG/Fenix) vs DCS high fidelity modules (F18 for example). Overall, which do you guys think offer the most realistic experience? My intention with this post isn’t to create a sim-war where the brave internet warriors of MSFS & DCS go head to head. Rather i’m just genuinely curious which offers the more realistic experience.

Thanks 🙂

If you want to fly the Fenix or PMDG, I would say DCS is unrealistic 😉

For me it’s difficult to isolate the planes from the overall aim experience, and DCS just lacks too much to make the overall experience of taking a plane into the air enjoyable. Not to dis the DCS developers, as they do some kick word not allowed work (especially Heatblur) with very small teams and an often not very supportive framework.

The DCS F18 beats almost everything in MSFS except maybe Leonardo in systems simulation. The DCS F15, on the other hand, is beaten by a lot of planes in MSFS. So, as with MSFS, it really depends what plane you get.

On the other hand, like @MrBitstFlyer pointed out, if you want to fly anything other than a fighter plane or a few military helicopters, MSFS is the only choice between the two.

 

 

Geez I just can not Imagine a worse comparison today in gaming than with DCS vs MSFS. It makes no sense at all to me and I really mean it.

Edited February 2, 20251 yr by JBDB-MD80

DCS and IL2 are in another league... IMHO way ahead of either MSFS or even XP12... 

I would rate flight dynamics wise:

DCS & IL2 > XP12 > MSFS

Systems implementation wise I guess the weapon systems in DCS are way ahead, but other systems can be on par or even inferior to either XP12 or MSFS where developers do excellent implementations of some avionics, that aren't even modelled in DCS.

Also other details of the games are rather limited. DCS weather looks great but is way simplistic compared to either MSFS or XP12,

Each for his own...

For me IL2 is the King of Ground Physics 🙂

Edited February 2, 20251 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

For me IL2 is the King of Ground Physics 🙂

Let's see if I can get this thing..."stuck in a rut"...oops, I've blown my engine🤪

 

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

DCS and IL2 are in another league... IMHO way ahead of either MSFS or even XP12... 

I think that someone here is comparing apples with oranges: combat flight simulators are not "ahead" of civilian flight simulator because they were made for very different purposes. If possible we can compare just the same airplane if modeld in different combat and civilian fs. I remember the A2A P51D in P3D was very accurate in all aspects but in the limits of the P3D flight model: very "strange" rudder coordination and inexistent crossed controls, just to mention few issues. But the same airplane in DCS was more than a toy when landing, but almost nothing about the engine managing because the people there want use their guns without problems of carb temps, engine priming and general engine maintenance.

FS20 and FS24 have a better flight model compared to FSX/P3D, but they are lacking on the inertia and the energy aspects, for these reasons you can fly a F18 like a paper airplane without losing energy. But the F15 in DCS is "heavy" and you can't use it like a fighter although it has a very good slow-speed maneuverability, because recovering the lost energy requires time and fuel.

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

 

For me IL2 is the King of Ground Physics 🙂

I would strongly disagree with this statement. Obviously damage model in IL-2 is superior but not ground physics.

Problem with all military sim is that modeled airplanes can't be properly vetted agains real counterpart. Most information modern military aircraft are classified! Historic aircraft only exists in some degree in a small private collections where I doubt many developer can get access to many of them. For example  well known YouTuber and ex-military pilot Mover once commented in this regard about DCS F-16 and F-18 modeling (he flew both). He said both are  good approximation but not authentic representation. This is huge contrast with civilian sector where in most cases you can get access actual aircraft or level D simulator , involve pilots who fly it in development process or fly yourself.

17 minutes ago, Claudius_ said:

I think that someone here is comparing apples with oranges: combat flight simulators are not "ahead" of civilian flight simulator because they were made for very different purposes. 

Yes, quite correct. Jcomm and I have lead the discussion onto flight modelling which isn’t really fair to the OP as he specifically mentioned systems.

As far as systems accuracy goes I’d say the best DCS planes are on a par with the best ‘study level’ airliners in civilian flight sims.

However, the things in DCS that make up the combat component in say, the F/A 18; radar and weapon performance - these parameters are still…secret, for obvious reasons 

27 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

However, the things in DCS that make up the combat component in say, the F/A 18; radar and weapon performance - these parameters are still…secret, for obvious reasons 

And even then DCS is weak in some of these areas regarding radar signature modelling, area of effect, ballistics and missile dynamics compared to the BMS and even VTOL VR ironically. 
 

To answer OP, I do struggle to compare MSFS and DCS because their goals are very different. DCS is better compared to Arma, BMS, IL2 and VTOLVR, whereas MSFS is better compared to the ESP lineup, Xplane, FlightGear and even infinite flight.

1 hour ago, Claudius_ said:

I think that someone here is comparing apples with oranges: combat flight simulators are not "ahead" of civilian flight simulator because they were made for very different purposes. If possible we can compare just the same airplane if modeld in different combat and civilian fs. I remember the A2A P51D in P3D was very accurate in all aspects but in the limits of the P3D flight model: very "strange" rudder coordination and inexistent crossed controls, just to mention few issues. But the same airplane in DCS was more than a toy when landing, but almost nothing about the engine managing because the people there want use their guns without problems of carb temps, engine priming and general engine maintenance.

FS20 and FS24 have a better flight model compared to FSX/P3D, but they are lacking on the inertia and the energy aspects, for these reasons you can fly a F18 like a paper airplane without losing energy. But the F15 in DCS is "heavy" and you can't use it like a fighter although it has a very good slow-speed maneuverability, because recovering the lost energy requires time and fuel.

Excellent analysis with which I have to agree 100%

I also see and agree with @DD_Arthur's comments, although I still find the feel of il2 on ground very plausible, while on DCS we all know they apply a trick when there are crosswinds, making them fade to 0knot normal component bellow a given taxi speed... 

Back to the OP and his query regarding systems I maintain that the best addons for MSFS cam offer superior class modelling of avionics, some not even by far modelled on DCS , like the GNS...

I decided to drop all war games sometime ago, so I can't say how better DCS/ il2 are presently. All of my sim time goes to my 3 civil flightsims, with around 75% spent on MSFS 2024 these days...

Edited February 2, 20251 yr by jcomm

In terms of systems simulation I think MSFS and DCS stack up, depending on exactly which aircraft you are comparing. The PMDG and Fenix planes in MSFS have very accurate systems just like the F/A 18 in DCS, or the F16 in BMS. DCS Falcon has a long way to go to get close to BMS, so it really depends on what you are comparing. But top shelf MSFS vs top shelf DCS is on par, understanding that some military systems are top secret/classified and cannot be simulated accurately. 
 

Speaking of BMS, i am waiting somewhat impatiently for the next major release, which includes a complete overhaul of the terrain engine. Probably later this year. 

Edited February 2, 20251 yr by RobJC

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

I decided to drop all war games sometime ago, 

Yeah, same here.

The worse the evening news became, the less I wanted to reproduce it on my PC….