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yellowjack

Frame Rates - An Historical Point in Time

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I had a Tandy computer running at a blazing 20 mhz.It would barely run Microprose F-19 stealth Fighter. In order to run the graphics details at "high" I bought the new cutting edge Tandy running at 25 mhz for $3000.I remember the computer salesmen asking me why I needed all that power.

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HeeHee,Yea I remember those days using a B&W 12 inch tv for a monitor.Click...Click..Click...Click and that non-forgetable sound of flying a lawnmower. :(

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So:"in 1987 with the Atari 520 ST Flight Simulator II rolls down the runway at 15 frames per second compared to the original 2 frames per second of IBM version 1.00 and , and this is just the beginning. New computer graphics software techniques and high performance hardware make this possible. High speed 68000, 80386, and 68020 microprocessors will make future versions even faster."20 years into the future and I still have to struggle to get a contstant 15 FPS in the busy areas :(

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Tom,I just got off the phone with Charlie. He is a wonderful friend and I have everyone of the books he wrote relating to flight simulator. I actually remember, at the very first flight simulator "convention" at Cornell University, Charlie and Bruce Artwick were there and it was really an exciting time. It was the first time we experienced real sound with FS and Steve Halpern was so excited because Bruce Artwick was flying FS with Steve's first version of "FS Clouds". Remember the square white blocks in the sky!It really is amazing when you think how immersive the experience was then, with so little graphics and airplanes. But, we all loved it and couldn't wait for "more". Oh, and Compuserve, bulletin boards and dial in modems were the only way to communicate.And yes, I am still flirting with 15 fps and I still love it and am alwways still looking for "more"!Howard

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>20 years into the future and I still have to struggle to get a>contstant 15 FPS in the busy areas :(Yes,that's true but a busy area then and now are sort of different.;-)

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>Yes,that's true but a busy area then and now are sort of>different.;-)You mean all those modern filled vector graphics? Thats only a fad. Reall men fly using only wireframe 3d :)

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>>Yes,that's true but a busy area then and now are sort of>>different.;-)>>You mean all those modern filled vector graphics? Thats only a>fad. Reall men fly using only wireframe 3d :)Lol those where days first experience for me 1989 / 1990 :-)... http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/awf1/sign.jpg

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It's serendipitous that you happened to post this today, as I just reinstalled FS2002 on my latest FS machine to shoot some reference screenies for an old freeware FS2k2 aircraft that I'm planning to recreate for FSX...I was totally amazed that although the frame rates were wholly acceptable (~50), I actually got less performance with this "virgin FS2k2" than I do with my "fully-loaded FS9" (~90)...It is an altogether smooth performer, but there sure isn't much to see! :)

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Oh,My first computer was a Sinclair ZX81 (Zilog Z80 cpu). Default with 4KB RAM, but you could add 16KB RAM. And then there was the Sinclair Spectrum, the VIC 64, The Atari and finally the PC. I remember my first PC AT with a 20MB winchester (hard disk). It's been a many, many years with FS. And with every new version of FS, I get problems with old hardware. Edited: :-) Ulf BCore2Duo X6800 3.3GHz4GB RAM Corsair XMS2-8500C5BFG 8800GTX, Creative SB X-FiFSX Acc/SP2, Vista 32

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That's amazing Bill!I keep my old FS2002 on this latest machine of mine too, with onlyone scenery add-on from 'Just Flight' to make the Sim a little more interesting when showing it to friends that call in.The other reason I keep FS2002 on-board, is to run it, and then really appreciate all the fantastic 'goodies' that is now in my FSX.I must have been very lucky indeed when I chose the new components to re-build this current machine of mine. The marriage between all of them are amazingly matched. I don't seem to have been affected by the unfortunate problems, that fellow simmers here at AVSIM, have been subjected to with their FSX's.

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The first game to really WOW me was Wing Commander. Remember that series with Mark Hamill. Big Budget and if you took hits, the wind sheild would crack,wires would dangle and the game had cut scenes.I can also remember right befire combat, the game would pause and you had to change out the disc. I always had them at hand and had Ninja like speed.Another good sim was a-10 tank buster.There is still a following for Red Baron and can found free with upgrades.Kinda sad considering flight sims were at one time a developers flagship product.Before long PC games will be kept in a card board box in the back room next to the cleaning supplies. We take what we can get and make it work.It takes years but eventually you can get some use out of them.Look at Falcon and Lock On. Still kept alive by dedicated simmers.

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Amazing - I was just thinking about this last night:Way back then (Flight Simulator on Apple ][ for me) - think how AMAZING our imaginations must have been...Moving forward, as relatively sparse as the scenery was, that feeling of rising into the air and recognizing what minimal landmarks existed... and still really FEELING you were up there, flying, knowing where you were...I guess our imaginations no longer get the workout they should ;)Andrew

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Howard,You know there's a website dedicated to the history of FS where you can actually download and run some of these old versions of FS. Check out fshistory.simflight.com. -Rick----------- My System -----------P4 @ 2.53 GHz / 1GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce 6800XT, 256MB / Windows XP Home

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I remember the old times... well, as old as I can get and still remember in my 14 year lifespan so far... I have FS98 installed on my rig. I forgot that the Sopwith camel was in it, the VC is pretty bad...

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>Amazing - I was just thinking about this last night:>>Way back then (Flight Simulator on Apple ][ for me) - think>how AMAZING our imaginations must have been...>>Moving forward, as relatively sparse as the scenery was, that>feeling of rising into the air and recognizing what minimal>landmarks existed... and still really FEELING you were up>there, flying, knowing where you were...>>I guess our imaginations no longer get the workout they should>;)>Yes, I remember just a squiggly blue line representing the Colorado River as it made it's way through the Glen Canyon/ Lake Powell wilderness area, on it's course to the depths of the Grand Canyon. Just a dot on a white background, made do for an out of the way airport that's a gateway to this marvelous scenic river area. Yet, somehow I felt I was there! L.Adamson

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Ha! This is really amazing that I was just thinking of these times this morning. I still have those books in my library as I write this.I was so frustrated that I can't get IMC weather with my Quad Core Intel, gigs of RAM, Super-duper vid PCI-E 2.0 card, that I began to think about how rewarding it use to be when I flew with Charles Gulick on my Atari.I logged hundreds of hours doing NDB, VOR, and ILS approaches with my Atari8-bit Piper, and then my Atari ST Cessna.Unfortunetly for me - and I'm only speaking for me - those rewarding, fun filled days, have been replaced by frustration and dissapoitment. Oh well. I can always set up my Atari ST Mega4 with 4MB ram, MegaFile 30 with 30MB MFM external hard drive, 13" color monitor, and have at it. :)

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Oh, my, the Hercules Graphics adaptor. My Commodore64 was too primitive for that, but my girlfriend had a PC with the Herc. It had a "Turbo Boost" which effectively doubled the performance.I had no idea why anyone would disable the Turbo Boost, until I watched her play Tetris. Turning off Turbo Boost would slow the game down so much that she could take all evening to play it out. I think her best score was around 5,000,000 points, which is just rediculous.When I upgraded to the Amiga, well, that was like going from a kindergarten fingerpaint set to having Michelangelo as your next door neighbour. I remember playing Gunship! from Microprose, terrain-following some turquoise blue river that had about as many polygons as a six-sided dice, and screaming out the "Flight Of The Valkyries" bit at the top of my lungs. If anybody remembers "US Navy Fighters", it had that really great musical score. I often hear that score in my head any time I take up a jet warplane in FSX.When I think back on those old games, I remember them a lot better than they were. My Amiga was in storage, but I did take it out to check out some of the old stuff. By our current standards, it took forever to boot up, programs took ages to load (no CD-ROM), and the frame rates were never all that hot. I ended up giving it away to a collector friend. Thanks, Tom, for helping to bring back the great old memories!Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIMBREAKING NEWS:That girlfriend that I mentioned became by beloved wife. She also wants to point out that her Tetris high score was on the order of 13,000,000 instead of just 5,000,000. She had a PC XT. Performance without the Turbo Boost was something like 2 MHz, while the Turbo Boost rocketed her machine up to 4.8 MHz.She also wants to point out that if anyone wants to own the same actual computer we are discussing, she is willing to sell it, including the Tetris game which comes in its original box. Now you too can have the opportunity to rack up 13 million Tetris points.No takers? oh, well, I tried.

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"That girlfriend that I mentioned became by beloved wife."Well smack me stupid... And here I thought that you were the geek-a-zoid in the family. There is hope for the rest of us! :-lol

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Your argument is true on so many levels. Imagination is always a lot more powerful and vivid.Adventure games have evolved in a similar fashion. I remember playing MUDs and MOOs and other text-based adventure games and felt totally immersed. The highly detailed graphic adventure games started to spoil the fun for me.On the other hand, we have become spoiled by the "as real as it gets" promise expecting to simulate real life, but we can only go so far with the current state of technology. All the home cockpits, hydraulic chairs and TrackIRs cannot replicate the feeling of a first solo takeoff. We expect AI, ATC and other players to be as professional and "real" as we are, but fact is that it is probably never going to happen. However, we're getting close! ;)Pat

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I also started with a Commodore 64. Anybody remembers Solo Flight? There was no landscape as such. Hills were represented with an upside down "V". Talk about imagination! :)Then the Flight Simulator came... Kankakee and Champaign, Illinois, were my playground and I even flew to Boston once in clouds all the way. I remember how proud I was when I finally got out of the clouds and the runway was right in front of me. Then... I crashed on landing, LOL. Like Jeff, I Later upgraded to an Amiga and stayed with her even after all the companies that tried to "save" her, went bust. I still have a couple of A500's and a beefed up A1200 with a turbo board, external HD, CD ROM and whatnot. :)The Gunship! I was completely hooked by it. A masterpiece by Microprose.And of course, there was the Flight Simulator. My A1200 left the PC's of the day in the dust. We had stereo sound and "real" graphics, while the PC's were just squeaking, ugly boxes! :)My first PC sim was Flight Unlimited and my first MS simulator that I spent more time with was FS2002. Nowadays I'm still firmly in the FS9 land, struggling to maintain 15FPS at busy airports. :)Regards,Jure

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I made my real world pilgrimage to KCGX in 1995, after attending the Oshkosh bash, when it was still there. Any one like to take a guess as to how many air hours were chalked up by the flightsim community between KCGX, KIKK and KCMI?Remember when we first got seasons and you could fly KCGX to KCMI over 'snow'. Halcyon days. :-)

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