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Digital Aviation Fokker 70/100 released!

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Does look good but no VC?!?!?Apparently it *might* come later?Quote:"If these (VC and DX10 models) become available, they will be provided at no additional cost for early-adopter customers."

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Ryan,They are well into the development process for the VC. We just want to be clear that people know what this is NOW. I wanted to make sure people do not feel there are any false promises should the VC take 2 months, or 6 months, etc. So being honest and saying it is being worked on is the best anyone can do, having learned from various experiences over the years.

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Ok, someone should change the "if" to a "when", as it reads right now - the VC may or may not come.

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Oops! No VC, no purchase until it is. 2D cockpits look horrible with a TripleHead2Go system. Rats! Randy Jura, KPDX;(

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Randy,Yes, you are right regarding TH2G... But there was so much demand for the way it was now. All got done except for the VC.It was not practical for them to hold it back for x months when everything else was done. So many users wanted it now. This was very evident in some European and foreign language forum groups. So it is really no harm. VC users would have gotten it around the same time anyway even if this was not released.If you want to save a bit, get the early adopters release shortly before the VC is released to save a little. Hopefully you will see some info and news as this time gets closer.

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Can I just add my thoughts to ryanb's - I too read the ad to say that you *might* get the VC version, if one comes out, later. If it's certain that there'll be a VC, then definitely it should be a "when". And if not, if there's a chance it won't happen, there should be a clear statement to that effect, too - though I understand the above to mean there is definitely one intended.I'm interested - but with no VC, no sale here either. I've been a strictly FSX simmer, have never been limited to 2D only - so am not about to start. Buying early for a discount is not attractive, frankly, unless the upgrade is guaranteed (and even then I think I'd wait to see). I won't fly a 2D pit, so why buy one?

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Well like the man said, if people want it, they'll get it.... I am also a VC user.... The 2D panels look really nice anyhow!!

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The main product was ready for release, but the VC was some period behind (not just a week or two).Many folks in some European user groups really wanted it. So it makes some sense.They could "sit" on the product for XX months, and those that knew about this product for very long would have to wait more... as it has been 4 years in development.If you do not get it now, and get the final edition, then it is all about the same anyway (if they held it back and released it all at once), except that the price will be a bit more later.It is not an ideal release method. But we are as up front as possible, and people can make their decision.

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I don't think it is a good policy to release an unfinished product just because some people in foreign forums want it now. If everybody starts doing this we will start seeing airbuses without MCDU or sceneries without taxiways. I will also wait for the finished version.Cheers.

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I was right there!I didn't even read the product description and I had my credit card in hand, then I thought to look here first.. No purchase for me until the VC is included.

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well, at the moment I am downloading the fokker, I have been following the project for a long time, I know that Florian Praxmarer has put a lot of effort in this one, and that there are a lot of simmers waiting for only the 2d panel.For me, I can only run fs9 with 2d panel, because my pc is not powerfull enough to run with VC. And as last, for people complaining it's without VC, wait till that one is out........Thanks Florian and Flight oneRick

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>The main product was ready for release, but the VC was some>period behind (not just a week or two).>>Many folks in some European user groups really wanted it. So>it makes some sense.>>They could "sit" on the product for XX months, and those that>knew about this product for very long would have to wait>more... as it has been 4 years in development.>>If you do not get it now, and get the final edition, then it>is all about the same anyway (if they held it back and>released it all at once), except that the price will be a bit>more later.>>It is not an ideal release method. But we are as up front as>possible, and people can make their decision.>Steve, thanks for your contribution to this thread.You don't seem to realise that, this package is too expensive for just a sale of a 2D cockpit with no guaruntee of a VC.Then, to try and cajole people into buying it you state that, the *finished* product will be more expensive to new buyers so "buy now and get the VC free".This action is not conducive to attracting customers or enhancing Flight One's good name.Compare this with the ATR package and you find that this is unbelievably high priced. The ATR IS excellent value but this D.A. package is 'OTT' in my opinion.

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>Steve, thanks for your contribution to this thread.>>You don't seem to realise that, this package is too expensive>for just a sale of a 2D cockpit with no guaruntee of a VC.>Then, to try and cajole people into buying it you state that,>the *finished* product will be more expensive to new buyers so>"buy now and get the VC free".>>This action is not conducive to attracting customers or>enhancing Flight One's good name.>>Compare this with the ATR package and you find that this is>unbelievably high priced. The ATR IS excellent value but this>D.A. package is 'OTT' in my opinion. Hello Dave,I think most of us agree that a release with a VC would have been the best for everyone. That is unfortunately not the case...You apparently think the Digital Aviation Fokker is highly priced (which is your right to think so) but comparing it to the ATR product that has originally been released for FS9 in October 2004 is not very relevant in my opinion...I personally think that the price reduction of Flight1 for the 'early adopter' version is an excellent move. This is certainly not to 'try and cajole people into buying it' but rather to make sure you only pay for what you get right now and not for unfinished features that 'could' be delivered in the future...Also notice that there already are some screenshot of the VC available on the DA forum which is a sign that a VC is in development. I know some other companies who made you pay for a future VC and haven' t shown a single screenshot up to this day... :+I would like to suggest that you take some time to check out the numerous features of this product as you insinuate in another post that 'without VC this addon is not any better than the freeware 'Project Fokker''. This makes me think you haven't looked carefully at all the features...Although the freeware 'Project Fokker' is an excellent initiative, it cannot be compared at ALL to the Digital Aviation Fokker add-on in terms of functionality.There are actually simmers who rather think that in-depth simulation of aircraft systems (fuel, hydraulic, elec, bleed), FMC, autoland capability, flight warning computer, realistic FDE (correct attitudes and thrust settings), very detailed external model, etc, etc... are the kind of features that determine the price of an add-on.The VC is also worth some money but it will not take 4 years to develop like the sytems simulation did...If the features summarized above are of no importance to you and you are not willing to pay for them, I don't think this add-on is something for you... Let's agree to disagree then... and let's move on. :-)If you do like these features but can't get over the fact the VC is missing... just wait till the full version comes on the market. :-)Regards,SylvainEDIT: format

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Yup, I agree Dave, I already got burned on the promise of forth-coming VC with the LHS MD2006, and I'm sceptical of FEX. I too find it concerning that this early-release (full-price) stuff is becoming the norm. How do we know how hard your even working on a VC, or when/if its release date will be sometime this year or within a month of FSXI? Will its quality match the rest of the pre-release package? I know DA has a decent reputation but I for one don't like this unfinished-product sales approach and non-binding promises. You don't even mention how much the final price (with the VC) will be, so we can't determine how much we're saving now, buying an unfinished product.Developers need to stop concentrating on sales tactics and concentrate on the final product itself. If its worth it, it will sell itself.No thanks, I'll wait...

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Jordan, Dave,We did word it to be as up front as possible, with little chance for false promises. That is specifically why we want people to buy it on the merits of what is carefully presented.To be honest, I was a bit reluctant at first, until I realized that this is such a in-depth simulation of systems, that it had a great deal of involvement and immersion that it could hold its own even without a VC. So the presentation was made as best as possible to make sure the customer understood everything, and could not get burned. Plus you can always take advantage of our 30 day refund policy if it does not provide the value for you with what it has now.Dave, regarding the price. One problem is that this is all developed in Europe. We all know what the dollar has done. When the ATR was released, there were maybe $.40 USD difference (lower) in the cost of the Euro. We have considered looking into a system where we can charge in Euros. But in the end, it all will balance out the same when they tick the dollar option.

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Fully undestand Steve that the sales page fully and easily indicates that there is no VC yet. Not a problem and for those of us that can read. You and DA have said it plain and simple, no arguements there.I am refering to the trend and the precedense (sp?) being more common these days of added features later and and reduced price if you buy now.What's next, like the TV commercials, "if you order right now and mention this ad, we'll include a second set for free!"?RONCO this community should not be...

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>>You don't seem to realise that, this package is too expensive>for just a sale of a 2D cockpit with no guaruntee of a VC.>Then, to try and cajole people into buying it you state that,>the *finished* product will be more expensive to new buyers so>"buy now and get the VC free".No, they said the VC will come, it just is written wrong on the page, IMHO

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Ryan, I sincerly hope your right but I am older and wiser and do not rely on promises of the standard that they represent in todays world.I'll wait and may pay more but only IF ITS WORTH IT?

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Guys, so how good is this plane in FS? Good model, flight behavior, well thought-out panels, convenient views, click spots etc?Thanks.

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I bought it anyway even after being burned by Leonardo and their MD-80 (almost a year and a half later and no VC in sight, pathetic). At least DA has some very nice screenshots of the VC up.

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I have it as well and was going through one of the tutorials this am (No 3) I think. Am unable to move the IRS switches from Nav to Align. Am I missing something?? Any help or info would be appreciated. Thanks, Craig

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