On 5/24/2025 at 8:18 PM, flyingscampi said:

FSL weren't really surpassed, they just released their A321 into a market that already had an excellent A320 series, and many people haven't forgiven them over the incident.

 

Thank you. For my awareness and general culture (not for debating), was was the incident please?

3 hours ago, sultanofswing said:

I own the Toliss A320 for Xplane, the Fenix for MSFS and the FSLabs for MSFS and here is how I rank them personally.

Visual's
1-Fenix
2-FSLabs
3-Toliss

System's
1-Toliss
2-FSLabs
3-Fenix

My Preference
1-FSLabs
2-Toliss
3-Fenix

All 3 of these birds offer something that the other does not,  These are my preferences and my overall winner is the FSLabs.  Visual fidelity isn't the only thing that matter's.

I will say this the FSLabs has the best looking font's on the displays and are not as aliased as the Fenix,  When using TAA and Frame Gen the Font's are a huge factor.

Really you should only be ranking Fenix vs FSLabs in the this thread as Toliss doesn't make an MSFS simcraft. Unfortunately Toliss only makes models for X-Plane, leveraging the fact that X-Plane flight simulator software is FAA certifiable.

Toliss makes highly accurate simulations of Airbus planes to the point that they have an official Airbus endorsement. In fact, Airbus is a commercial customer of Toliss for commercial and certified Airbus training simulators.

Lastly, FSLabs doesn't make any simcraft for X-Plane, so a Toliss ranking is not really relevant in this discussion other than as a footnote. So redoing your catergory rankings for an MSFS only evaluation now looks like this:

Visual's
1-Fenix
2-FSLabs

System's
1-FSLabs
3-Fenix

My Preference
1-FSLabs
2-Fenix

3 minutes ago, Simicro said:

Thank you. For my awareness and general culture (not for debating), was was the incident please?

Back in the day they shipped Malware with their buses and deemed it as DRM. 
 

It was quite a story back then, people weren’t too happy with Avsim either 😛 but let’s not get too deep into it.

1 hour ago, sultanofswing said:

A321 look fine to me, I am not out at 35000 feet trying to look at all the detail on the nose gear or in the wheel well.

System's depth is most important to me and the FSL and Toliss both are ahead of the Fenix.

The Fenix is still a very very good addon.

You are not doing chase plane rivet inspections at TOC??? 😆🤣😂

2 minutes ago, Simicro said:

Thank you. For my awareness and general culture (not for debating), was was the incident please?

FSL put a program in one of their products that would send personal information from a PC if it detected that an FSL product was being pirated. Their response was somewhat ham-fisted.

I know someone who travels the world prosecuting people who are using pirated movie-editing software. The software send a full forensic analysis of the computer and network it is operating from, so this is not uncommon.

 

So following my initial post, I went for... Fenix (Base Pack). I've taken the plane for a quick ride and notice that whererever I point her, she flies straight there, no correction needed!  I know there is the FBW but it seems to be more efficient and precise than Boeing. What happens is that I've been absent several years so I'm learning again the 777-200ER, and I'm going to learn in parallel the A320. Should be good for the brain ?!? 😉

6 minutes ago, rick celik said:

Back in the day they shipped Malware with their buses and deemed it as DRM. 
 

It was quite a story back then, people weren’t too happy with Avsim either 😛 but let’s not get too deep into it.

Thank you Rick, understood. That high level of information is fine for me. No need to go deeper indeed, as you said.

2 minutes ago, Simicro said:

So following my initial post, I went for... Fenix (Base Pack). I've taken the plane for a quick ride and notice that whererever I point her, she flies straight there, no correction needed!  I know there is the FBW but it seems to be more efficient and precise than Boeing. What happens is that I've been absent several years so I'm learning again the 777-200ER, and I'm going to learn in parallel the A320. Should be good for the brain ?!? 😉

I may be wrong and stand to be corrected, but I seem to remember a video where the Airbus FBW system was compared to CWS on a Boeing 737. You set the roll/pitch and the aircraft maintains it without stick pressure.

14 minutes ago, flyingscampi said:

I may be wrong and stand to be corrected, but I seem to remember a video where the Airbus FBW system was compared to CWS on a Boeing 737. You set the roll/pitch and the aircraft maintains it without stick pressure.

 

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by alanw2005

23 minutes ago, Simicro said:

So following my initial post, I went for... Fenix (Base Pack). I've taken the plane for a quick ride and notice that whererever I point her, she flies straight there, no correction needed!  I know there is the FBW but it seems to be more efficient and precise than Boeing. What happens is that I've been absent several years so I'm learning again the 777-200ER, and I'm going to learn in parallel the A320. Should be good for the brain ?!? 😉

Good choice on the Fenix.

They say Airbus planes are designed by geniuses for idiots and Boeings are designed by idiots for geniuses.

The 777-200 is a nice plane. It is the first Boeing to get FBW technology. It is nice that this plane auto trims like an Airbus does.

I don't have anything against FSL. If they bring Concorde to FS2024 I'll buy it on day 1.

But I think Fenix gives you better value for money. You can have the full family of A32x (well not the A318, but all the other ceo models). The modelling is superb, and the EFB is one of the best I've ever used. They're also doing the Neo family as well.

Also I don't think the FSL works in 2024 yet? The Fenix, while not officially a 2024 model, works seamlessly. It's probably my most flown aircraft and has been for some time. It also has full compatibility with all the WinWing stuff - which if you haven't got yet then get it because it adds so much immersion.

I had the FSL back in my P3D days, and have the Fenix currently for MSFS, and the FSL's systems compared to the Fenix is a toss up IMO (based both on my earlier experience and what I've read of the MSFS FSL reviews). Both are excellent and each have strengths, some unique to themselves, but at the end of the day one is not distinctly better than the other.

Flight dynamics wise Fenix has the edge IMO, but not hugely so (again I am comparing to what I remember of FSL on P3D, but IRL 320 pilots reviewing both on MSFS have said either it's a toss up again or that the Fenix has the edge)

Visuals wise it's no contest, Fenix all the way.

I wish FSL had focused on the Concorde or A330 as their first entry to the MSFS scene.

8 minutes ago, Tom Wright said:

The EFB is one of the best I've ever used.

I've heard that several times in this thread. I'm currious to discover soon why it is superior!

18 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

They say Airbus planes are designed by geniuses for idiots and Boeings are designed by idiots for geniuses.

I've heard that Boeing planes were designed by pilots while Airbus was designed by engineers 😉

18 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

The 777-200 is a nice plane. It is the first Boeing to get FBW technology. It is nice that this plane auto trims like an Airbus does.

Yes the 777 (PMDG) auto trims, but less well than the Fenix A320 IMHO. I don't what it's like in real life.

52 minutes ago, Tom Wright said:

I don't have anything against FSL. If they bring Concorde to FS2024 I'll buy it on day 1.

But I think Fenix gives you better value for money. You can have the full family of A32x (well not the A318, but all the other ceo models). The modelling is superb, and the EFB is one of the best I've ever used. They're also doing the Neo family as well.

Also I don't think the FSL works in 2024 yet? The Fenix, while not officially a 2024 model, works seamlessly. It's probably my most flown aircraft and has been for some time. It also has full compatibility with all the WinWing stuff - which if you haven't got yet then get it because it adds so much immersion.

Did someone say Concorde??? I am in. Will put a depost down on this jet if that helps with FSL's decision.

3 minutes ago, Simicro said:

Yes the 777 (PMDG) auto trims, but less well than the Fenix A320 IMHO. I don't what it's like in real life.

Don’t hold me to this but I do recall real life pilots mentioning that the way the trim is implemented in the PMDG is a little off. Might’ve been this forum or another.