1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

This always makes me smile. What is it that should be new…?

the planes haven’t changed IRL, after all…

this also ignores that the addons had to be completely re-coded for the new sim. 

I can’t say definitively, but there’s likely been some serious 3D updating / rework that had to be done, as well. 

They actually have, a LOT.  The NG that they model is OLD.  The FMS software is old, the radios are old, it's capabilities are old.  

They finally have got it to do ARC turns with the Navigraph update, which is great.  But there's definitely things they could update.   

NVM.

Edited July 20, 2025Jul 20 by ATRguy

39 minutes ago, ATRguy said:

They actually have, a LOT.  The NG that they model is OLD.  The FMS software is old, the radios are old, it's capabilities are old.  

They finally have got it to do ARC turns with the Navigraph update, which is great.  But there's definitely things they could update.   

That argument would be more appropriate to complaining about the lack of a PMDG MAX, which would be fair game at this point .

and hey, we’ve got a MAX 8, a 787, and a 747-8 free with the game.

So they must be better because they’re newer IRL…?

when iB released the A300, nobody complained that it was old…

the NG might be a snapshot in time, but it’s still a glass cockpit modern airliner. And I don’t remember PMDG saying anything about it being the latest and greatest NG, or that it would be kept up to date with IRL.  No developer does that unless they’re intentionally going for the new shiny and have some kind of inside track. 

wanna talk about avionics problems and such? Hey, have at it, because those things shoulda definitely been refined out by now. 

The point being that we’re not owed an addon that reflects the latest IRL configs, and sniffing about a “lack of innovation” is weak sauce. 

Edited July 20, 2025Jul 20 by UrgentSiesta

PMDG 787 would be a dream. But I feel like its 3 years away.

It would be insane for pmdg or any dev to start work on a new plane that will take 2 years easy of dev time when Asobo have already established a 4 year shelf life for their sims. One plane per sim if you want the best or 2 planes for mediocre is more realistic. Especially when backwards compatibility is now a thing of the past (!) so your dev time is wasted when a new sim comes out. 

Be glad if you can get ONE amazing plane per dev per sim regarding complex modern airliners. More maybe for simpler GA planes or simpler radio nav airliners. 

PMDG stuff in MSFS does feel very deja vu, although I do love flying the 777 especially as the CPDLC works really nicely with Say Intentions. I've been cramming in some fun cargo flights to random places.

I think when people bemoan PMDGs lack of innovation, it's probably less to do with the actual aircraft, modelling and systems but more to do with things that would increase immersion such as integrating GSX seamlessly, sending you a provisional and final load sheet etc in the way the Fenix does. The sense of all the things happening on the ground around you with realistic cabin voices is really fun. Loading the 777 any other way than just setting the payload in the FMC is a bit clunky, which removes any sense of immersion from the turnaround. 

The EFB does the job but again compared to the polish of the Fenix with its smooth animations and thoughtful touches such as pinning the airport map and expected SID, feels dated. 

All that said, I'd buy a PMDG 787 in a heartbeat. 

8 hours ago, ATRguy said:

They actually have, a LOT.  The NG that they model is OLD.  The FMS software is old, the radios are old, it's capabilities are old.  

They finally have got it to do ARC turns with the Navigraph update, which is great.  But there's definitely things they could update.   

For quite some time there has been an option to use the latest Nav radio control units instead of the original ones.

Yes, the FMS software emulates an older version, but I am sure there are plenty of r/w NGs that still have that same version today. Updating FMS operational software is not trivial or cheap.

I’m not saying there is not room for improvement - it would be nice to have a fully functional CPDLC emulation in the NG

It would also be nice to have ACARS functionality - at least for automatic out/off/on/in reports. 

When the NGs come to MSFS 2024, they will have a reworked model with a full cabin and working cockpit door and windows.
 

 

Edited July 20, 2025Jul 20 by JRBarrett

1 minute ago, JRBarrett said:

it would be nice to have a fully functional CPDLC emulation, but that really would only be useable on Vatsim, and even there, not all Vatsim controllers support it

SayIntentions.AI already supports CPDLC in I think BeyondATC very soon.

8 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

The point being that we’re not owed an addon that reflects the latest IRL configs, and sniffing about a “lack of innovation” is weak sauce. 

Completely agree.  I actually wonder if the 747 will come with 3.5 inch floppies to update the Nav Data like the real plane still uses... 

And I am sure 744 pilots all complain that the flight deck is still the same as it was 15 years ago. 😉   I may be wrong but I thought in P3D PMDG actually offered the 747 with the option for either avionics package and CDU software so one had the "pause" after every input like real life and the other was far more responsive but I could be wrong.  Not sure what else they could really do.  

I also heard United and Southwest were pulling all of their NG's out of service because the pilots are sick of the same old flight deck since the birds were introduced...  PMDG even offers the choice of some old or new gauges like clocks, nav radios etc so you can choose the older NG flight deck or a newer one.  So what else do people want??  

 

Also agree that complaining about the flight model behaviour and other issues is completely warranted but complaining the same plane in real life always looks and feels the same in the sim is a bit unwarranted in my opinion.   

Edited July 20, 2025Jul 20 by psolk

21 hours ago, psolk said:

Lot's of things can happen between now and then as the latest MS Gaming layoffs and budget grabs from partner devs goes to show.

 

This was missed by many. I was deep into watching who this was actually being applied to. Almost 10k in the games area of MS gone. 

2 hours ago, B777ER said:

This was missed by many. I was deep into watching who this was actually being applied to. Almost 10k in the games area of MS gone. 

What struck me particularly about this one was the partner dev teams that were stripped of funding and essentially killed off as a result.  Ie the exact group Asobo falls into. 

1 hour ago, psolk said:

What struck me particularly about this one was the partner dev teams that were stripped of funding and essentially killed off as a result.  Ie the exact group Asobo falls into. 

Yep, that caught my attention. Some games were simply canceled when the RIF’s went out. Not sure if this is the start, middle or end with MS and their restructuring.

15 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

 

The point being that we’re not owed an addon that reflects the latest IRL configs, and sniffing about a “lack of innovation” is weak sauce. 

I never said we're owed one, but you said they haven't changed IRL, when they certainly have over their 20 year production run.  Since PMDG is supposedly developing the NG for 2024 with some freshness, some updated equipment would be welcome.

23 minutes ago, ATRguy said:

I never said we're owed one, but you said they haven't changed IRL, when they certainly have over their 20 year production run.  Since PMDG is supposedly developing the NG for 2024 with some freshness, some updated equipment would be welcome.

I mean , if you really want to split hairs…

but this was covered by another poster. 
 

and yes, while aircraft are certainly customized & updated over the course of their production runs and service lives, that’s rarely the case in flight sim. Developers mostly zero in on a specific configuration, and that’s what we get. And PMDG goes a bit further by allowing us to customize the cockpit equipment quite a bit. 
 

with the MAX (somewhere) in the pipeline, as well as the two entirely different 747’s, (plus whatever else they’ve got cooking unannounced), I doubt we’ll see significant changes to the NG systems. That’s really what will come with the MAX. 

12 hours ago, bennyboy75 said:

I think when people bemoan PMDGs lack of innovation, it's probably less to do with the actual aircraft, modelling and systems but more to do with things that would increase immersion such as integrating GSX seamlessly, sending you a provisional and final load sheet etc in the way the Fenix does. The sense of all the things happening on the ground around you with realistic cabin voices is really fun. Loading the 777 any other way than just setting the payload in the FMC is a bit clunky, which removes any sense of immersion from the turnaround. 

The EFB does the job but again compared to the polish of the Fenix with its smooth animations and thoughtful touches such as pinning the airport map and expected SID, feels dated. 

This. Their aircraft are great, the complaints about lack of innovation come from all the other 'integrations' and quality of life improvements/additions that other developers have embraced and included.