Double post (due to site update looks like)
 

Edited November 9, 2025Nov 9 by lwt1971

Interesting comment by PMDG (Mathijs): https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/373891-boeing-launches-virtual-airplane-training-tool-utilizing-msfs?p=374056#post374056

"Yes, but there is a professional version of MSFS 2020, and that was made in relation with Boeing and the authorities."

As was apparent from the initial news release, this is likely a special version/build of MSFS 2020 (along with a specialized Azure cloud component) that's being used for this procedural training package.

With insider knowledge like this, and comments like https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/373891-boeing-launches-virtual-airplane-training-tool-utilizing-msfs?p=373990#post373990 it really does seem like PMDG is involved in this project 🙂. Good for MS/Asobo and PMDG, can only mean good things for the sim platform and also PMDG's future aircraft development.
 

Edited November 9, 2025Nov 9 by lwt1971

12 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Good for MS/Asobo and PMDG, can only mean good things for the sim platform and also PMDG's future aircraft development.

One would certainly hope so. There have also been examples where a company's activity in the professional training market has appeared to reduce the amount of time they can spend on products for the hobbyist market - A2A is probably the most prominent example. Let's hope PMDG doesn't go down this route.

1 minute ago, martinboehme said:

One would certainly hope so. There have also been examples where a company's activity in the professional training market has appeared to reduce the amount of time they can spend on products for the hobbyist market - A2A is probably the most prominent example. Let's hope PMDG doesn't go down this route.

It happens in the Sim Racing world as well, granted those teams are generally smaller in size so when they get other projects to work on alongside their main one then development takes a hit. But here we have the backing of MS alongside a bigger Asobo team than they were 5 years ago, so lets hope these outside projects don't harm the development too much as they already have their hands full with the PS5 release.

4 minutes ago, martinboehme said:

There have also been examples where a company's activity in the professional training market has appeared to reduce the amount of time they can spend on products for the hobbyist market - A2A is probably the most prominent example. Let's hope PMDG doesn't go down this route.

Fair point, but they've also expanded the team size at PMDG in recent months so hopefully there is a separate set of folks for the professional projects (outside of this one I don't know of any other?). But the benefit and good things I'm talking about for their future aircraft for MSFS is hopefully unprecedented access to Boeing aircraft and data.
 

Edited November 9, 2025Nov 9 by lwt1971

15 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Interesting comment by PMDG (Mathijs): https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/373891-boeing-launches-virtual-airplane-training-tool-utilizing-msfs?p=374056#post374056

"Yes, but there is a professional version of MSFS 2020, and that was made in relation with Boeing and the authorities."

As was apparent from the initial news release, this is likely a special version/build of MSFS 2020 (along with a specialized Azure cloud component) that's being used for this procedural training package.
 

Wow, a professional version of MSFS! This is the first credible source that I have seen state this!

I always had a feeling that MSFS would tap the commercial market. But this is the first description of it, implying it was a separate build, by a credible source (ie. Mathijs from PMDG).

To my knowledge - I stand to be corrected -, the only desktop flight simulation software company that was ever FAA and EASA approved was and still is https://flyelite.com. But mind you, it was not a game and had little to no appeal to gamers, that is why few outside the pilot community ever heard of them.

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

"Yes, but there is a professional version of MSFS 2020, and that was made in relation with Boeing and the authorities."

As was apparent from the initial news release, this is likely a special version/build of MSFS 2020 (along with a specialized Azure cloud component) that's being used for this procedural training package.

I wonder if the "special" version still has those "land bars" that annoy the hell out of me.....

47 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Wow, a professional version of MSFS! This is the first credible source that I have seen state this!

I always had a feeling that MSFS would tap the commercial market. But this is the first description of it, implying it was a separate build, by a credible source (ie. Mathijs from PMDG).

Jorg did say they were receiving a lot of requests from flight schools to use MSFS as part of their training curriculum. He said they MAY go down that path eventually, so I was expecting a commercial license eventually. I wasn't expecting a professional version, and it would be very interesting if one now exists.

 

I bet any money that that these flight schools want MSFS because of the real world scenery more than anything else. VFR landmarks seem to be a big thing in GA flying, and accurate scenery to go with that is very important. Plonking a model of a church down in that horrible default scenery of yesteryear is next to useless.

Edited November 9, 2025Nov 9 by Christopher Low

18 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I wonder if the "special" version still has those "land bars" that annoy the hell out of me.....

Who knows... Pretty sure this "professional version" Mathijs is talking about is the special cloud hosted version of MSFS 2020 Boeing is using so it can be used in-browser on iPads, Macs, PCs, etc for in-cockpit procedural training. I'd assume that whatever scenery is streamed to regular MSFS users is also what's streamed in this case.

In-cockpit procedural training is likely the main use case here for Boeing, not anything scenery or VFR related.

Edited November 9, 2025Nov 9 by lwt1971

13 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

No, you're talking about PROCEDURES training.  Flows.  This is the point I'm making.  No one is using any of this software to train a pilot to fly an airplane.  They aren't practicing maneuvers, or approaches.  They aren't running TEM or CRM or any other kind of human factors scenarios.  They aren't used for anything we would really consider training.  They're used for cockpit familiarization and, as I said earlier, "flipping switches in the right order" practice, what we call flows.  There isn't any actual flight training occurring with them.  We, no kidding, used to do most of this by sitting in front of a poster taped to the wall.

Again, XP isn't certified for anything.  As you said, it's used in some flight training devices.  But it's the entire device that is certified, not XP.  XP just provides visuals and some base physics that is then modified by the device's own software as necessary to create a control feel the FAA was willing to certify.  They could just as easily have used any other software for that, as they're modifying it anyway.

There is actually something unique about the airline world: it operates under a different portion of the regulations than other aspects of aviation.  In the US, this is part 121 of CFR 14; I'm unsure what the designation is in other countries but the impact is the same.  If you read 121 training requirements you'll find that using any sort of desktop software for flight training wouldn't come close to meeting the requirements of a training or simulation device.

I think you're oversimplifying how these platforms are used in real-world training environments.

Prepar3D and DCS are actively used in military contexts—not just for procedural training, but also for tactical scenarios and basic flight maneuvers. Lockheed Martin designed Prepar3D specifically for immersive training across aviation, maritime, and ground domains.

X-Plane, while not certified on its own, is integrated into FAA-approved AATDs. That means it is part of certified flight training—especially for private and commercial pilots. These devices are used for more than just “flipping switches”; they support maneuvers, approaches, and even CRM scenarios depending on the setup.

You're right that Part 121 training requires full-motion simulators and high-fidelity systems, but that doesn’t mean desktop sims are irrelevant. They’re used extensively for procedural refreshers, cockpit familiarization, and even initial maneuver practice in certified devices.

Saying “no one is using this software to train a pilot to fly an airplane” ignores the broader training ecosystem. These tools are part of a layered approach—especially in early stages or for maintaining proficiency.

11 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

But would it be fair to say, the device is actually more importantly than the simulator, with respect to the FAA certification?

Well, it depends on the purpose of the device.  Familiarization and procedures trainers, no, since there won't be any hardware or if there is, it won't bear much resemblance to the airplane (the software this topic is about, for instance, runs in VR or on a tablet, there is no hardware).   

But for devices that are actually certified for flight training: meaning practicing and demonstrating proficiency in maneuvering flight, emergencies, and the LOFT scenarios that develop and evaluate human factors skills... Those events must take place in a device that feels substantially similar to flying the airplane.  The device itself - meaning the hardware - is probably more important here.  It's not that the software doesn't play a role, but whatever software is used is tweaked as necessary to make the flight controls feel the same as whatever airplane is being simulated.  Dynamic (force feedback) control loading is used so that a given amount of control deflection in a given energy state not only produces the correct rate of pitch, roll or yaw, but requires the same amount of force which loads up in the same way as the airplane. 

It's much easier to tweak software than hardware, so yeah I think you can say the hardware is more important than the software for actual flight training devices and simulators.

5 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

X-Plane, while not certified on its own, is integrated into FAA-approved AATDs. That means it is part of certified flight training—especially for private and commercial pilots. These devices are used for more than just “flipping switches”; they support maneuvers, approaches, and even CRM scenarios depending on the setup.

They are, but it's not as if these students are using x plane to do this.  I had an interesting discussion with a Redbird engineer about this.  Xp is used as a starting point for base physics, but Redbird is running a lot of their own code to adjust control feel and response.  Other than the visuals, nothing about these devices is a pure XP experience. 

Everything else you're discussing comes back to procedures vs flying.  The stuff that, like I said, we genuinely used to do while sitting in front of posters.  Maneuvering flight cannot be practiced on these devices because the physics simply aren't exact, they're approximations.  Good for familiarity and procedures, yes... But not for actually flying.

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

Who knows... Pretty sure this "professional version" Mathijs is talking about is the special cloud hosted version of MSFS 2020 Boeing is using so it can be used in-browser on iPads, Macs, PCs, etc for in-cockpit procedural training. I'd assume that whatever scenery is streamed to regular MSFS users is also what's streamed in this case.

The cloud technology is already in place. MSFS on Ipad is possible via Xbox Cloud. With my game pass subscription, I was able to launch it in the safari browsers. I paired my Xbox controller via Bluetooth to my iPad, and I was able to fly around.