To me, F1 died when the V12, V10, V8 died. Yeah sure <insert whatever excuse here>, but THAT was fun. This is nonsense.

I'm all in for security systems, etc and i agree with all those, but when you remove 50% of the fun which was the incredible sound, it's dead.

11 hours ago, SayAgain said:

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/mercedes-benzs-ceo-petrol-head-convinced-evs-future/story?id=129197399

 

Mercedes pulled out of formula E a few years ago they do not race a full electric car. Mercedes are the biggest opponents of ICE ban in Europe there sales are falling.

1 hour ago, G-RFRY said:

Mercedes pulled out of formula E a few years ago they do not race a full electric car. Mercedes are the biggest opponents of ICE ban in Europe there sales are falling.

Sources?  This would see to contradict your statement showing 26% growth in EV market:

https://mercedes-benz-media.co.uk/releases/1614

Formula E switch from Lithium-Ion to Solid state will have a dramatic impact to the sport: 

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/more-racing/a64366405/ev-quick-charging-pit-stops-take-formula-e-next-level/

Expectation is to move to “standard” race tracks instead of the smaller city street circuits.

As far as sound, many manufacturers are adding fake engine sounds (even up shifts and down shifts … sorta like fake frames with DLSS/FG in flight sims) … kinda weird but I guess some like sound … since I have tinnitus, sound (especially loud sounds) is very disturbing and sometimes even painful.  But to each his or her own:

 

 

The formula E team uses Mercedes equipment but not officially linked to Mercedes F1.

Under the present time line ICE powered cars will not be allowed after 2035 in the EU. F1 may no longer be able to race in Europe in it`s present form.

47 minutes ago, G-RFRY said:

Under the present time line ICE powered cars will not be allowed after 2035 in the EU. F1 may no longer be able to race in Europe in it`s present form.

Incorrect.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/official-eu-scraps-2035-ban-new-ice-car-sales

In the nineteen eighties Honda returned to F1 with a vast budget and the specific goal of developing cutting edge engine technology that could be directly applied to their road cars.

Through their F1 engine program Honda gained a vast amount of design and engineering expertise in the fields of fuel injection, fuel economy and component design and resilience.

 F1's evolution still attracts manufacturers for exactly these same reasons. Advanced racing technology can be applied to road vehicles.

17 hours ago, G-RFRY said:

ICE powered cars will not be allowed after 2035 in the EU

Those regulations are for registered street vehicles.  Might impact Rally cars (although I think they will have an exception), but not F1 or any other sport that doesn’t go thru all the regulations to have a legal registered street vehicle.

I don’t get the fascination with ICE?  Noisey, slow, laggy power output response (build up those RPMs), terrible traction control, A LOT of maintenance/service items, pollutes, limited power unit locations, terrible AWD capability, poor weight distribution, etc. etc. 

Seems to be more about not liking “change” than anything else … now that Solid State batteries are making it to production vehicles with ranges in 450-750mi and < 18 min charge times … I can’t see ICE being viable much longer.

Edited January 22Jan 22 by SayAgain

23 hours ago, SayAgain said:

Formula E switch from Lithium-Ion to Solid state will have a dramatic impact to the sport: 

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/more-racing/a64366405/ev-quick-charging-pit-stops-take-formula-e-next-level/

That's something interesting. If the combination of solid state batteries and quick charge works as they expect, the effects won't be limited to auto racing. But I'd leave it at that; we'd be too close to drift into EVs in general and we all know how does these discussions end.

23 hours ago, SayAgain said:

Expectation is to move to “standard” race tracks instead of the smaller city street circuits.

I used to like street circuits, but I find them more compatible with the smaller cars from before (late 90's/early 2000, before I stopped watching F1) than with the cars of now.

On 1/20/2026 at 6:32 PM, G-RFRY said:

One thing that has changed in F1 todays cars will be sucking more Oxygen with the turbo for a bigger bang, than normally aspirated cars 50 years. And it`s CO2 coming out the exhaust more than 50 years ago. Renewable fuels will not change that more Oxygen compressed under load the better. 

Actually, what the turbo does is to extract energy from the hot gases coming out of the exhaust, and having it (indirectly) go to the crankshaft (and therefore, wheels) than to the atmosphere. This allows to extract a bit more horsepower from the same quantity of fuel burned, or use a bit less fuel for the same power. Sadly, for the same fuel, the amount of CO2 emitted (and oxygen spent) per fuel gallon burned is more or less constant (plus/minus some parts per million). Water vapor is the same behavior. Not so with other emissions (CO, NOx, soot, whatever). You'd need to change the fuel to reduce CO2 emissions without reducing power.

 

Edited January 22Jan 22 by Luis Hernandez

Anything with an ICE engine emits CO2. 60 years ago a V12 then the V8 normally aspirated engine produced 400-500BHP, Today a 1.6LT engine that two men can lift on your kitchen table produces 1,000BHP. this is achieved by compressing more Oxygen in the head forced in by the turbo, creating a bigger bang and emitting burnt gases (Oxygen) from the exhaust that tuned to extract gases as fast as possible (CO2). Even renewable fuels need Oxygen to create an explosion. Remove OXYGEN no bang.

PS I can see motorist being told you can`t drive your old cars, but the highly paid drivers can for sport, a political timebomb, you no longer do what you want you do as your told.

4 hours ago, Luis Hernandez said:

turbo does is to extract energy from the hot gases coming out of the exhaust, and having it (indirectly) go to the crankshaft (and therefore, wheels) than to the atmosphere. This allows to extract a bit more horsepower from the same quantity of fuel burned, or use a bit less fuel for the same power. Sadly, for the same fuel, the amount of CO2 emitted (and oxygen spent) per fuel gallon burned is more or less constant (plus/minus some parts per million).

Not exactly how it works.  The exhaust speed/flow drives the impeller one one side of the Turbo (doesn't need to be hot gases - would be much better if it weren't hot, just the air pressure that gets converted from one side of the turbo to the other side) which then drives the impeller on opposite side of the turbo creating air pressure into the cylinder.  Where there is more air there MUST be more fuel (too lean will destroy an engine quickly) to obtain optimal air-to-fuel ratio. 

Since Turbo's get VERY hot 500-850C (1500F) they introduce unwanted heat on the cooler side that goes into the combustion chamber.  Hence why there are intercoolers to try and improve heat transfer and cool the in-coming air pressure.  When I converted my Lotus to Turbo, I used water cooled intercooler that would run water thru another another radiator into the intercooler chamber to try and cool in IAT (intake air temperature).  This worked well in race conditions so long as ambient temps was less than 85F (30C).  Above 85F IAT temps would climb to about 175F (80C) which would trigger failures (melt pistons, crack values, break rocker arms).

I monitored EGT, IAT, and Air/Fuel ratio (all logged to data I could playback)

F1 cars have a different type of Turbo ... typically a very longer shaft between both sides of the Turbo that helps separate the exhaust pressure heat from getting to the inlet air pressure side.

Turbo + water cooled intercooler

Radiator for water cooled intercool (not the engine rad).

Cosworth Pistons.

Standard turbo layout for my Lotus.  The advantage to a Turbo is lower RPM, more power, less weight that an Super Charger and don't have to run a heavy bigger engine (400HP on 1.8 litre).  The disadvantage is engine longevity, lots of heat, complexity, pretty short about 10-14 hours and heat extraction.  In a race I got about 5-6 mpg.

IMHO, normally aspirated sound better than Turbo and scream from a Super Charger is horrendous ... sorta explains my hearing problems, however I did get diagnosed with Tinnitus at as 21 long before I was doing anything with high noise levels.  Yes, guilty as charged and I'm paying for it.

Todays FI cars can rev up to 18,000rpm and tick over at around 7-8,000rpm made of light alloy. The big talking point at the moment is the 6bar compression limit when cold. Some teams it`s said have found way of use expanding valve heads increasing it to 8bar when hot. that the FIA have no test for at the moment. A possible loop hole making the engine more powerful. We will soon see in Australia.

pneumatic valves and really short stroke allow for those high RPMs … short stroke helps keep CG lower.

Electric motors and battery would allow F1 to place the batteries anywhere making it much easier to balance the car and more design variations … the cars might actually look different like they did in the 60’s and 70’s

sound of normally aspirated ITB

the sound of SuperCharged

 

 

and Turbo

 

personally I prefer NA, but some love the sound of a turbo pressure release valve

3 hours ago, SayAgain said:

pneumatic valves and really short stroke allow for those high RPMs … short stroke helps keep CG lower.

Electric motors and battery would allow F1 to place the batteries anywhere making it much easier to balance the car and more design variations … the cars might actually look different like they did in the 60’s and 70’s

The battery box must be able to be isolated for the car under FIA rules. In a crash they could be dangerous live, enough to kill a marshal.

The new MGU-K is capable of putting out 350kw as apposed to the old MGU-H 120kw. It`s much larger in size. 

On the new Honda power unit you can see the MGU-K Sealed in a orange box.

 

8 hours ago, G-RFRY said:

I can see motorist being told you can`t drive your old cars,

 

Nope. The ban on ICE only applies to new ICE cars. Used combustion cars and those in present ownership will be allowed to stay on the road for their lifespans. 

25 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Nope. The ban on ICE only applies to new ICE cars. Used combustion cars and those in present ownership will be allowed to stay on the road for their lifespans. 

Give it 10 years.

They probably won't outright ban ICE cars. They'll just introduce more restrictions on their use, more emission laws, more places where they can't be driven.

And if they start shutting down gas stations, you won't be able to buy fuel. Or they'll simply start taxing fuel to the point where you can't afford it.

Look at the difference between the taxes on gasoline and diesel right now. Diesel would be cheaper if not for the extra taxes. When I was out a few days ago, diesel was $0.60 more expensive than gasoline.

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