2 hours ago, jon b said:

No you’ve gone and spoilt it 😂

I love your enthusiasm for avionics, and you have a valid concern in my view, have you mentioned it to FSW ?

I have 👍 FSW approached me about some flight model testing shortly after release, so I've just fed this back to Mark as part of that convo stream.

I certainly don't expect them to postpone release on Thursday because of my feedback. But it would be good if they could commit to working on a realistic AP gauge model, for inclusion in a further update.

26 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

I hear you. I'm a sucker just like you 😁 I don't understand why some developers don't go that extra mile. Talking about the digital Legacy, it seems weird the secondary radio is linked to the battery instead of the avionics master, but maybe this is true to life...

Thank you! We are very similar pilots in real life, in terms of our mission (except you're an instructor), so I'm not surprised you get this where experimental (and light sport) avionics are concerned, and the whole certified versus uncertified aspect.

I believe the secondary radio being 'hot wired' is realistic for most builds. It provides a working radio in the event of an avionics bus failure. A friend at my airfield has a Vans RV-14 that is wired this way too.

8 hours ago, JYW said:

As per St Mawgan's pic, A2A have modelled the perfectly appropriate TS Electronics unit; an experimental AP that is found in many recent build Legacies.

Looks like I'll be flying the FSW G3X version and the A2A analogue - for realism and immersion 😎

A KAP140 in a Legacy to me, is like having a Boeing 737 MAX with a Garmin GFC500 autopilot on the panel 😄 It's too much of a diversion from reality.

This was discussed actually. You should know that FSW had plans for a different AP, and that beta testers (myself included) talked them out of it. Why? It's a ton more work. If this was just an analog panel then maybe - but they already did a full glass version (with variants).

Maybe FSW will do a different AP.

I personally am not bothered at all by the KAP140 but if enough people are maybe FSW will change their mind.

20 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

Why? It's a ton more work.

I would dispute this. It does not require a custom autopilot. It requires the graphical model of the gauge (which needn't have taken any longer than modelling the KAP140 they put in it. Then the clickspots and displays within the model would use the standard LVARS.

I'd respectfully say you made the wrong call here, which detracts from realism in an otherwise very immersive and realistic model.

Let's hope FSW will proceed with their original plan to introduce a correct AP model in a future update.

There's a reason A2A are doing it right. I bet it would have been easier for them to go with the KAP or STEC but Scott will have known that there are no examples with these fitted in the real world. In every other area, the FSW Legacy is highly accurate and spec'd as common real world examples are. It's a shame that beta testers have persuaded a talented developer to make an exception to that and dump the KAP in there.

Do you know who else puts the KAP140 in almost everything (even where it would not be in real life)?

Carenado.

Edited Wednesday at 01:46 PM2 days by JYW

18 minutes ago, JYW said:

I would dispute this. It does not require a custom autopilot. It requires the graphical model of the gauge (which needn't have taken any longer than modelling the KAP140 they put in it. Then the clickspots and displays within the model would use the standard LVARS.

I'd respectfully say you made the wrong call here, which detracts from realism in an otherwise very immersive and realistic model.

Let's hope FSW will proceed with their original plan to introduce a correct AP model in a future update.

There's a reason A2A are doing it right. I bet it would have been easier for them to go with the KAP or STEC but Scott will have known that there are no examples with these fitted in the real world. In every other area, the FSW Legacy is highly accurate and spec'd as common real world examples are. It's a shame that beta testers have persuaded a talented developer to make an exception to that and dump the KAP in there.

Do you know who else puts the KAP140 in almost everything (even where it would not be in real life)?

Carenado.

I hear what you're saying. A2A is only doing an analog panel, normal aspirated though. FSW has vastly more variants - and I expect the pricing to be similar once the A2A is out. I'll be buying that one as well!

I'm okay with being told I made the wrong call. If FSW wants to make changes, perhaps they will. I wasn't the only one who voted for the KAP140 fwiw. I really think most of simmers wouldn't care, or even know the KAP140 is a certified GPS.

However, to correctly model a different autopilot, if done correctly, would be a lot more work. The Sorcerer is very different than the KAP or even GFC500 for that matter - especially in regards to how coding works in MSFS.

54 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

I'm okay with being told I made the wrong call

I have a phone number for you call when you’re ready to copy 😂😂

1 hour ago, JYW said:

which detracts from realism in an otherwise very immersive and realistic model.

I rarely use autopilots in light aircraft and wouldn’t have known the difference until I was told, but I’d fully support JYW’s position here simply for the valid reason he gives here ☝️…the rest of it is so nicely done and immersive, it seems a shame to put in an unrealistic box. (which is a compliment to the developer’s work)

Edited Wednesday at 03:04 PM2 days by jon b

1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

You should know that FSW had plans for a different AP, and that beta testers (myself included) talked them out of it.

Ok, thanks but no thanks 🙃
So they were willing to go the extra mile to make their analogue Legacy even more realistic 🤔 I would have encouraged them to do that different AP...

Edited Wednesday at 03:16 PM2 days by Rimshot

There are certainly Lancair Legacys out there with certified APs, for example the GFC500. Legacys are being updated all the time, and it could be a Legacy owner came across a good deal on a used KAP140 and decided to upgrade his AP.😉 Heck, some Legacy owners are even upgrading an analog panel to an all glass panel. Can't be cheap to do that.

Al

Edited Wednesday at 03:34 PM2 days by ark

8 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Ok, thanks but no thanks 🙃
So they were willing to go the extra mile to make their analogue Legacy even more realistic 🤔 I would have encouraged them to do that different AP...

You should go post on FSW's discord. Maybe they'll make a different AP?

I agree that it's kinda odd to not push devs towards realism. However, this isn't just one variant like A2A is doing - FSW has done so much work already on numerous variants (Glass, Turbo etc). Imagine if FSW decided to charge for this analog update. People would be up in arms.

We're talking about a retro autopilot that absolutely could be present in an experimental. Anything can be placed in an experimental aircraft. That's the beauty of it!

Edited Wednesday at 03:22 PM2 days by ryanbatc
changed analog to retro

1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

I agree that it's kinda odd to not push devs towards realism. However, this isn't just one variant like A2A is doing - FSW has done so much work already on numerous variants (Glass, Turbo etc). Imagine if FSW decided to charge for this analog update. People would be up in arms.

They were willing to do the extra work as I understand 😉 But yeah, if they would have charged for it some of us might get upset 😄

2 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

However, this isn't just one variant like A2A is doing - FSW has done so much work already on numerous variants (Glass, Turbo etc).

I’m in complete agreement.

Given all the other substantive variants and capabilities thereof included with the addon, it’s just not a big deal.

This really feels like a splitting hairs/lily gilding issue.

I get realism, and I like it too. But the amount of support requests from people that wouldn't know a totally new autopilot would probably outweigh the benefit. I'm not even a payware dev. I personally hate the KAP140 lol. I prefer a GMC507 (exp) or the GFC500, I just love Garmin's stuff and prefer it. But then you need a G5 or suitable glass AI... if you're trying to be realistic.

I guess it's up to the developers to decide how far to push things vs the cost of doing business (money/time/support etc)

34 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

it’s just not a big deal

To you it isn't 😉

true, but I’m a customer, too.

I try to strike a reasonable balance, and generally speaking, all I really care about is whether the unit functions to purpose and is a reasonable fitment

We have both here, so again, considering all the things that need attention on an addon, this isn’t the molehill upon which to die

As noted, we have Black Square and A2A to provide bespoke fitments for those who prioritize such.🤙

5 hours ago, ark said:

There are certainly Lancair Legacys out there with certified APs, for example the GFC500.

That's incorrect.

There is a certified version of the GFC500

And there is a non-certified / experimental version; GFC500-X

Can you tell me why someone would pay $30k for a GFC500 install of a certified unit, when they can pay $15k for the same autopilot, without certification, for their experimental aircraft? Of course no-one would do that, because there is no need to do it.

One thing this discussion has shown me is that knowledge of (i) the range of autopilots available for GA aircraft, (ii) certification regulations, and (iii) what it means to have an experimental aircraft is quite low in the flight sim community. 😉 I don't mean to sound arrogant but I've been in the GA scene for over 30 years, have owned 3 experimental aircraft and have made those decisions for real, on installing the right AP. I've taken advice and learnt knowledge from avionics engineers. That's where my position is coming from with regards to this.

Of course in flight sim we can bung any old gauge in there! In the real world it works nothing like that. People with light sport and experimental aircraft never fit certified autopilots to their planes. That's how it is.

Edited Wednesday at 09:15 PM2 days by JYW