PMDG raises prices for US customers?

[Mike... 7]

>I would however ask you to think about the cost of one of>our products divided out over the amount of time you spend>using and enjoying it (I know it's years for me in the case of>other companies' addons I've bought) and think about price in>that context, the context of learning to fly one of these>aircraft in the real world, and the context of how much time>and energy we put into building these things before you decide>anything is unfair.That's fine for setting the price of a (new) product, but to suddenly increase (35%!) the price of an essentially old product, no amount of reasoning will explain that. And an increase is one thing, but to simply change the currency symbol, LOL! Without notice to boot...As a European I have been buying addons a little quicker recently what with the favorable exchange rate. From my point of view, this is not good for PMDG's business. They're indeed rubbing all customers the wrong way.

[EngineRoom 205]

>FYI, Robert has made several posts addressing this in our>forum in the two active sticky threads - please read those.>Thanks for the heads up. I went and had a look, and to be pefectly honest, exchange rates, different types of credit card, the prices other developers are charging.... it all boils down to one single thing:PMDG want to make more money.Now I know you guys at PMDG are totally within your rights to do that, you made the products and you can charge whatever you want for them.The way the price rise has been introduced has irked quite a few people it seems, and from where I'm standing it certainly looks like it was brought in on the quiet.The problem I have is that customers are now expected to swallow a 35% price rise for exactly the same product.Now reading through the sticky threads on the PMDG support forum I am left with a bad taste in my mouth. Basically, the boss man at PMDG is telling his customers that he knows more about doing business and making addon aircraft than they do. That we mere mortals are somehow blessed to have a company like PMDG making addons for us, and we should be #### grateful to be paying the prices we have been. Those of us who choose not to support PMDG with our money any more are basically told with an astonishing level of arrogance "You'll be back, and we'll be here to take your money."I'm sorry but if I wrote here what I honestly thought of that kind of attitude I would probably be banned from these forums. I always thought a support forum was a good medium for receiving customer feedback and opinion. Deleting awkward questions and dismissing negative feedback paints a very poor picture of PMDG. Having a support forum full of sychophants isn't going to do your business any good in the long run.There is a problem that has been slowly festering in the FS commercial addon industry for some time now, and that is a growing disregard for the customer. It saddens me to see PMDG go down this road. I have owned every single one of PMDG's products (including the Fly! products). PMDG's aircraft have always taken pride of place in my virtual hangar, but I'm afraid to say if this attitude and business practice at PMDG continues I will be voting with my credit card.>>EngineRoom - regarding FS addon companies - I think it's>important to realize that it isn't a homogeneous industry. >Yes, there are professional companies like us or Flight 1 who>are doing this as a full time business - we've never denied>that we do that, it's what allows us to make the products we>make. At the same time, I'm sure that it IS actually true of>many developers that they are doing this in their spare time. >I think it would be a bad thing for the community to get the>idea that there aren't developers of all sizes and resources>out there. I can think of several right away who are>one-man-shows out of their houses.Thanks Ryan, I appreciate the reply. I wasn't singling PMDG out in any particular way in this regard. I have seen discussions before about business practice and pricing among FS addon developers, and the argument usually put forward is it's a cottage industry and all this stuff is developed in somebody's spare time. As I said before, professionaly designed websites, product delivery servers, e-commerce vendors, etc etc are not the hallmarks of a cottage industry and we should hold such developers to exactly the same standards we hold any other business we hand over our money to.

[Bob Scott 7,721]

>JD, Bob, others,>>I'm not going to discus the Euro issue beyond what Robert>posted. You have all the right in the world to disagree with>our decision, but it stands and we have our reasons for doing>it. I would however ask you to think about the cost of one of>our products divided out over the amount of time you spend>using and enjoying it (I know it's years for me in the case of>other companies' addons I've bought) and think about price in>that context, the context of learning to fly one of these>aircraft in the real world, and the context of how much time>and energy we put into building these things before you decide>anything is unfair.Frankly, I wasn't all that interested in the issue until I saw that PMDG decided to summarily delete any and all questions on the topic in their own forums here on AVSIM. That sort of arbitrary censorship...of a legitimate customer issue...warrants comment and criticism. It's a classic Captain Sim maneuver that we're not used to seeing from a quality outfit like PMDG, and it's sad to see you guys stooping to that level. Shame on you for going there.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[JDWalley 354]

>I'm not going to discus the Euro issue beyond what Robert>posted. You have all the right in the world to disagree with>our decision, but it stands and we have our reasons for doing>it. Your determination may well "stand" but, judging from the replies here, so will the determination by a significant number of your erstwhile devotees to have no further dealings with PMDG. And, as I stated before, it's not so much due to the price rise per se as to the "stealth" manner in which it was carried out, with the simple change of one currency symbol on your website.I, for one, am only glad that I managed to notice that symbol before finalizing my order last Monday -- and that I was able to get a boxed version from Aerosoft for $50.00. Rest assured it's the last PMDG product I plan to buy in a long time.

[Tabs 2,790]

>The question isn't whether anyone is forcing the consumer to>use FSX. The question is whether or not it would be in PMDG's>interest to encourage people to adopt FSX instead of FS9, so>that they can sell them new versions of products they already>own. I can't see how anyone wouldn't see that the answer to>that is "yes" -- in spades. It's no different from film>studios working to boost the fledgling DVD format a decade>ago, knowing that they'd be able to sell their "back catalog">all over again. Again, there's nothing immoral about it...as>long as everyone realizes this is the situation.And again I ask, does someone force you to rebuy products? If you feel there's no added value to doing that, then it's your right in a free market to not do it. We certainly can't "make" anyone buy anything.You're ignoring my explanation that the NGX is not "a product they already own" too. We will leave it to the community to judge whether or not the all-new version meets their criteria for purchasing. I have every confidence that it will, people have been asking us for a new NG for years.Believe me it is not our intent to simply release old products for FSX. The MD-11 is completely new as will be the stuff we do beyond the NGX.

[CanadaOne 36]

"JD, Bob, others,I'm not going to discus the Euro issue beyond what Robert posted. You have all the right in the world to disagree with our decision, but it stands and we have our reasons for doing it. I would however ask you to think about the cost of one of our products divided out over the amount of time you spend using and enjoying it (I know it's years for me in the case of other companies' addons I've bought) and think about price in that context, the context of learning to fly one of these aircraft in the real world, and the context of how much time and energy we put into building these things before you decide anything is unfair.Ryan Maziarz "For my part, I think it's far more a problem of clarity than anything else. If you want to charge a lot, then charge a lot. But if there is a lack of clarity in your price scheme, US vs. Euros, you have an obligation to address the issue or face the reality of an angry customer backlash which hurts everyone, especially your company.

[JDWalley 354]

>Frankly, I wasn't all that interested in the issue until I saw>that PMDG decided to summarily delete any and all questions on>the topic in their own forums here on AVSIM. That sort of>arbitrary censorship...of a legitimate customer>issue...warrants comment and criticism. It's a classic>Captain Sim maneuver that we're not used to seeing from a>quality outfit like PMDG, and it's sad to see you guys>stooping to that level. Shame on you for going there.Good on you for noticing the Captain Sim comparison -- that's another company for whom I was initially an enthusiastic customer, but whose business practices and arrogance soured me on them quite thoroughly. After that experience, I always held up PMDG as the anti-CS, a company that would behave professionally and treat their customers well. I'm sad to see that I may have been too optimistic.

[sascha 314]

That is a good point, usually you expect a reduce after 2 years, not a hefty increase - e.g. even FS9 box itself is available cheaper in retail here in Germany now that FSX is out!Increasing 30+% on an existing product does require some justification to the customers if you want to treat them as such. PMDG remeber it is us who paid you all that money and if you just say take it or leave in future who is to stop us from leaving it?

[jdk2 1]

Cap't Randazzo wrote: Can you think of a REALLY valid explanation as to why we would ever have reason to be less than honest?No, I can't. But it's mind-boggling that the recent web page refresh omitted some very important elements related to product pricing. Was this just a bit forgetful on the webmasters part? Is there another reason that customers were not duly informed?As has been stated numerous times on this and other forums, this business practice model that Randazzo and company have adopted stinks. If you want to raise prices, do so. But be up front and honest with your clientele.I wish them success, buy I will no longer be buying products from them. PMDG joins an evergrowing list of developers who cannot be trusted.Regards,Jim KarnNOTHING is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

[JDWalley 354]

>And again I ask, does someone force you to rebuy products? And again you try to change the subject.I'll say it one more time: the question isn't whether PMDG is "forcing" anyone to buy new versions of their products. The question is whether it is in PMDG's financial interest to get people to switch over to FSX so that they can sell them another 737NG, another 747. The answer to that question is clearly "yes"...nd no amount of speechifying about the "free market" will change that fact.>You're ignoring my explanation that the NGX is not "a product>they already own" too. We will leave it to the community to>judge whether or not the all-new version meets their criteria>for purchasing. I have every confidence that it will, people>have been asking us for a new NG for years.I ask the question to the community at large: "How many people here have been asking PMDG for a new NG?" I certainly haven't seen any clamor for PMDG to replace their current product. Has anyone else?>Believe me it is not our intent to simply release old products>for FSX. The MD-11 is completely new as will be the stuff we>do beyond the NGX.The MD-11 is, indeed, completely new...but that's only because, after promising it for several years, you decided to make it for FSX alone. But, of course, I didn't mention the MD-11 among the products which consumers would be buying for a second time, in case you didn't notice.

[EngineRoom 205]

"Even if that was the correct scenario (which it isn't), what exactly would be wrong with that?"Nothing at all!"which started as an FS2002 product nearly 6 years ago that we updated for FREE to FS2004, which some of you seem to have forgotten"Come on! The 737NG was released only a few months before FS2004 hit the shelves. I may be mistaken, but if my memory serves me correctly, when I purchased the FS2002 737NG it came with an assurance that it would be FS2004 compatible, and any work needed to bring that compatibility would be released as a free upgrade.I'm sorry Ryan, but this is the sort of arrogance that I'm noticing from PMDG. You guys aren't medieval barons giving out alms to the peasants at church on a Sunday."It will be without a doubt the most advanced aircraft ever seen in any version of FS"As has been mentioned already, this self assuredness can quite easily come across as rather arrogant."I'm just curious by the way - why is it always us that get slammed whenever the community decides it has a bone to pick?"I think you are exaggerating just a wee bit there. PMDG take nowhere nearly as much flak as Wilco/FeelThere, PSS, Captainsim and FSD.Having said that, PMDG have positioned themselves as one of the premier developers for FS. It's therefore quite normal that they will be held to higher standards. If you guys want to sell your products then you should be prepared to take some flak from your customers. As I said earlier, a forum full of mindless PMDG sycophants is no good to anyone.

[CanadaOne 36]

I guess the only thing to do is to buy the PDMG software, then mess with the credit card to reduce what they get by 33%, and when they complain that they got less money than was due without proper notification, tell them you don't discuss your internal business practices.

[Tabs 2,790]

Guys,I explained to you why the deletions happened. I was in a situation in which a forum rule was being broken and I could not reach any of the other PMDG members who have authority over commenting on it. Surely you don't expect the message board moderator to start divulging such information to you. I've already stated that we've changed our policy on how this will happen in the future so that people will know why something was removed instead of it disappearing without an explanation.

[windycloud 30]

Hey PMDG,Why don't you switch to British Pounds? Here is a formula you've gotta love, fresh off Google today.1 British pound = 1.9737 U.S. dollarsThen we can call you the second Ariane Design. Jason

[EngineRoom 205]

"the context of learning to fly one of these aircraft in the real world"Sorry but this argument is pretty old and is very flawed. You design and market your products as entertainment titles, not professional training tools. If they really are that advanced, and the fidelity of the systems and flight modelling is so great, why are you selling them to us and not the airlines or flying schools? You could charge a #### of a lot more!"context of how much time and energy we put into building these things before you decide anything is unfair"Again, this argument flawed. You guys aren't making this stuff out of the goodness of your hearts. By your own admission, PMDG is a business. You don't make great addons to earn the adulation of thousands of flight sim enthusiasts. You do it to get those thousands of flight sim enthusiasts to hand over their credit card numbers.Nothing wrong with that at all! You're a business, and that's what businesses do. Expecting us to feel grateful to PMDG for making this stuff and selling it at whatever price you set isn't going to win you many customers.