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HoratioWondersocks

MS has axed the entire ACES studio!

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I have just posted this at Flightsim Com as it seems to be true I thought i would post here too....MS has axed the entire ACES studio!HelloI have just spotted this over at POSKY forums.If true(it does seem to be the case)Then this is a a black day for all of us in the simming community and for all those creative folks at ACES.Dammed politicians and bankers! even FS can't escape the global fallout those bungling buffoons who caused this worldwide financial crisis have created.SADAndy

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I have just posted this at Flightsim Com as it seems to be true I thought i would post here too....MS has axed the entire ACES studio!HelloI have just spotted this over at POSKY forums.If true(it does seem to be the case)Then this is a a black day for all of us in the simming community and for all those creative folks at ACES.Dammed politicians and bankers! even FS can't escape the global fallout those bungling buffoons who caused this worldwide financial crisis have created.SADAndy
http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=241663

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Not only ACES gone- but Canwest News Service reports this AM, that Electronic Arts is shutting down their Vancouver based Black Box studios- known for Skate & Need For Speed games. Additionally EA has announced that it would be consolidating or closing at least nine of its studios and publishing locations.-----------Ah well- thinking positively, I guess the loss of ACES means that my 5 yr old 'puter will now last indefinitely!Alex Reid

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I have just posted this at Flightsim Com as it seems to be true I thought i would post here too....MS has axed the entire ACES studio!HelloI have just spotted this over at POSKY forums.If true(it does seem to be the case)Then this is a a black day for all of us in the simming community and for all those creative folks at ACES.Dammed politicians and bankers! even FS can't escape the global fallout those bungling buffoons who caused this worldwide financial crisis have created.SADAndy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Such sad news...for the Flight Community...but even more so...for the employees that have lost their jobs! This action by M.S. certainly has added years to the useful life cycle of FS9. Without doubt!Mitch

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Such sad news...--------- This action by M.S. certainly has added years to the useful life cycle of FS9. Without doubt!Mitch
----------Mitch- Right On! Clearly, the MS "Flight Sim Abandon Ship" decision means that FSX was not sufficiently profitable to continue further development. That conclusion is amply supported by the recent informal poll in the PMDG forum which asked -"What MSFS Version do you use?". This poll with 718 votes, showed a rough 2:1 ratio in favour of FS9.Perhaps now our community can fly into the future, with a clear direction for the add on developers. What a great opportunity to develop for a single FS9 platform that now has an assured LONG term future!!!!!!! Alex Reid

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----------Mitch- Right On! Clearly, the MS "Flight Sim Abandon Ship" decision means that FSX was not sufficiently profitable to continue further development. That conclusion is amply supported by the recent informal poll in the PMDG forum which asked -"What MSFS Version do you use?". This poll with 718 votes, showed a rough 2:1 ratio in favour of FS9.Perhaps now our community can fly into the future, with a clear direction for the add on developers. What a great opportunity to develop for a single FS9 platform that now has an assured LONG term future!!!!!!! Alex ReidFrom past released pr fsx was the best selling title in the entire fs history.So I doubt it has to do with sales as much as bean counter mentality.In any case-a sad day.Agree with add on developers-a opportunity for perhaps a limited time.Been thru all the flight sim failures in the '90's and this one seems quite familiar.Time for all to band together ! No more fs9 vs. fsx-time to unite.

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From past released pr fsx was the best selling title in the entire fs history.So I doubt it has to do with sales as much as bean counter mentality.In any case-a sad day.Agree with add on developers-a opportunity for perhaps a limited time.Been thru all the flight sim failures in the '90's and this one seems quite familiar.Time for all to band together ! No more fs9 vs. fsx-time to unite.
Best-Selling doesn't always equate to Most-Used. Even I bought it and I've only flown perhaps 10 hours in it since its release while logging over 100 in F9 in the same period. I know I've spent several hundred dollars in add-ons, very few of which are FSX compatible, so I ended up sticking to FS9. I'm still buying add-ons for FS9.

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Best-Selling doesn't always equate to Most-Used. Even I bought it and I've only flown perhaps 10 hours in it since its release while logging over 100 in F9 in the same period. I know I've spent several hundred dollars in add-ons, very few of which are FSX compatible, so I ended up sticking to FS9. I'm still buying add-ons for FS9.
Ok-then take the results-been a beta tester since fs2000.Was flying when you were a baby.Been around fs since 1981-and seen a lot ..Time not to do the fs9 vs. fsx bs....both are hurt and flight simulation will never be the same.

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Ok-then take the results-been a beta tester since fs2000.Was flying when you were a baby.Been around fs since 1981-and seen a lot ..Time not to do the fs9 vs. fsx bs....both are hurt and flight simulation will never be the same.
Actually, I think the point is that flight simulation will actually be the same...and for a good while.Now, if I'm a developer and I know that most of my users still use FS9, and that FSX will never be improved, and there is no sequel forthcoming, why spend the time and effort to migrate to a lower-performing platform?FSX has a very limited place in my simming...helicopters, and some light plane stuff, owing mostly to the scenery in rural areas. I am happy to have the PMDG MD-11 in FS9 now...I did buy the combo version and flew it in FSX, but the plague of stall-inducing wind shifts and jinking left-right S-turns made it so painful I put it away and waited for the FS9 release.Likewise, I think outfits like Flight1, who have abandoned new development for FS9 as a matter of policy, are now really gonna feel the pain of this cessation of "forward" progress by Microsoft. I compare Eaglesoft, still developing for FS9 (and for FSX), and Flight1...I just can't see buying an FSX-only Flight1 Mustang now, as FSX no longer represents movement towards the future, which was the ONLY reason I put up with its performance shortcomings the last 2+ years. An Eaglesoft Citation X for FS9? Probably. Would I buy a Mustang for FS9? Probably. FSX is now frozen where it is, just like FS9...but I feel strongly that FS9 is frozen in a much better place unless you're in a plane that spends most of its time down in the weeds.There's valid cause now to revisit the FS9 vs FSX debate. FSX no longer represents the future, but rather just a different, lower performance version of the present. That changes the landscape significantly. I think those developers that stuck with their customer base and continued supporting FS9 development will find their decisions to have been particularly prescient.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

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Actually, I think the point is that flight simulation will actually be the same...and for a good while.Now, if I'm a developer and I know that most of my users still use FS9, and that FSX will never be improved, and there is no sequel forthcoming, why spend the time and effort to migrate to a lower-performing platform?FSX has a very limited place in my simming...helicopters, and some light plane stuff, owing mostly to the scenery in rural areas. I am happy to have the PMDG MD-11 in FS9 now...I did buy the combo version and flew it in FSX, but the plague of stall-inducing wind shifts and jinking left-right S-turns made it so painful I put it away and waited for the FS9 release.Likewise, I think outfits like Flight1, who have abandoned new development for FS9 as a matter of policy, are now really gonna feel the pain of this cessation of "forward" progress by Microsoft. I compare Eaglesoft, still developing for FS9 (and for FSX), and Flight1...I just can't see buying an FSX-only Flight1 Mustang now, as FSX no longer represents movement towards the future, which was the ONLY reason I put up with its performance shortcomings the last 2+ years. An Eaglesoft Citation X for FS9? Probably. Would I buy a Mustang for FS9? Probably. FSX is now frozen where it is, just like FS9...but I feel strongly that FS9 is frozen in a much better place unless you're in a plane that spends most of its time down in the weeds.There's valid cause now to revisit the FS9 vs FSX debate. FSX no longer represents the future, but rather just a different, lower performance version of the present. That changes the landscape significantly. I think those developers that stuck with their customer base and continued supporting FS9 development will find their decisions to have been particularly prescient.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO
Bob-I think considering these events and the horrible termination of the team it is more valuable now for all simmers to show their support for our hobby and stop churning up things that tend to divide.I don't think some of your suppositions are correct -there is information freely available on the net contradicting what you state but consider it will not change this outcome, either way. I'd rather show all of our support to the Aces team that are flight sim enthusiasts and are probably coming to these boards taking small comfort that at least simmers are supportive and hopefully united that this move was not a good thing for anyone.I don't think whether some prefer one to another sim has much bearing-the fact is we are now down to one sim from a highpoint in flight sim history of the 1990's when we had a minimum of 5 choices is not good for simmers-period.I also think you are dead wrong in your last statement. The first casualties of this act will be the hardware producers-having already sold most of their hardware and not having much of a future market they will be the first ones to move on-Ch products, Saitek etc. I have a hunch what will be the second...

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Best-Selling doesn't always equate to Most-Used. Even I bought it and I've only flown perhaps 10 hours in it since its release while logging over 100 in F9 in the same period. I know I've spent several hundred dollars in add-ons, very few of which are FSX compatible, so I ended up sticking to FS9. I'm still buying add-ons for FS9.
I agree with you.I hope the Aces team resurfaces and are profitable. I only used FSX for a few months.FSX had far too many problems, fixes, workarounds etc., so I uninstalled it.I am still very happy with FS9's overall performance and available addons.I am still purchasing FS9 aircraft, hardware and addon software products.

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Bob-I think considering these events and the horrible termination of the team it is more valuable now for all simmers to show their support for our hobby and stop churning up things that tend to divide.I don't think some of your suppositions are correct -there is information freely available on the net contradicting what you state but consider it will not change this outcome, either way. I'd rather show all of our support to the Aces team that are flight sim enthusiasts and are probably coming to these boards taking small comfort that at least simmers are supportive and hopefully united that this move was not a good thing for anyone.I don't think whether some prefer one to another sim has much bearing-the fact is we are now down to one sim from a highpoint in flight sim history of the 1990's when we had a minimum of 5 choices is not good for simmers-period.I also think you are dead wrong in your last statement. The first casualties of this act will be the hardware producers-having already sold most of their hardware and not having much of a future market they will be the first ones to move on-Ch products, Saitek etc. I have a hunch what will be the second...
Geof;First, I'm not happy to see ACES getting the corporate guillotine. It's a bad thing for everyone. But let's not pretend that M$ has provided a supportive, customer-oriented experience over the history of MSFS. I know people have a natural tendency to speak fondly of the dead, but the preponderance of M$ interaction with rank and file members of our community has been standoffish and unresponsive. Lately things have warmed a bit, but I attribute that more to the force of Phil Taylor's personality than anything M$ has done to improve things. There is a littany of problems that have carried over from version to version to version...a responsive outfit that cares about customer inputs wouldn't keep repeating the same gaffs, without lifting a finger to fix glaring errors like the transgenerational persistent wind shift problem.Showing support to the ACES team is a moot point...we didn't screw those people, the execs at Microshaft did that. But I won't pretend now that the support I got from M$ has been anything but the horribly dismal mess it has been. My two experiences with MSFS support were straight out of a prepared text by some language-challenged doofus that wouldn't know an aileron from his a**. I got canned answers that did not relate to the problem at hand or help at all. And there was no hint of any willingness to go beyond the text in the help checklist. You're telling me that I should treat an organization that came on to me as a mindless corporate behemoth that already had my money as a bunch of sensitive caring people now. If I need help, I come here to Avsim. What suppositions do you suggest are incorrect? I'm a bit baffled by the vague references on that. And why would Saitek and CH stop making joysticks? It's not like MSFS is the only program that uses 'em. I'd guess there are at least as many users of IL2 Sturmovik, Falcon 4.0, Lock-On, etc as there are of MSFS. And it's not like FS9 and FSX aren't still being sold.Anyway, it is what it is. I'm sorry to see the ACES team disbanded. That said, w/r/t the people there, layoffs and frequent job-to-job movement are a fact of life in the IT business and always have been. Anyone who could clear the quality bar enough to swing a job at Microshaft can land a job somewhere else.And I, too, am still buying FS9 add-ons. And an occasional FSX one, too, but that's probably going to stop.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

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Bob-I boycotted the entire fs series for the decade of 1990-2000 so I have been dissatisfied with the franchise before-however I suspect my requirements may be different than yours.As far as the flight titles you mention-they are no longer with us either. Most who own them have bought the hardware. With no future new sales how long do you think the hardware manufactures will continue? Do you really think the future saitek/ch products will appear now?

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"I compare Eaglesoft, still developing for FS9 (and for FSX)....."Bob, I've made it a point to post in public forums and in our own that Eaglesoft made the decison to build/support for both FS9 and FSX because we consider both to be viable.Everyone will eventually settle down and realize that flight sim enthusiast have two very nice platforms to enjoy even if MS decides to never bring FS to market again.Neither are perfect but they both have much to offer enthusiasts. Note I did not include "gamers" in this statement simply because they appear to be the most hysterical in response to the recent MS decision.While we did have plans to phase out FS9 development as FSNext approached we've reconsidered and will of course continue to develop/support both platforms.The good news for us at least, is that all of our current and future FSX aircraft are being built to the FSX/SP2/DX10 Standard which makes them viable if MS ever brings FSNext to market.Ya'll can debate the FS9 vs FSX arguements until the cows come home. We'll be busy building for and supporting FS9 and FSX :(

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Bob-I boycotted the entire fs series for the decade of 1990-2000 so I have been dissatisfied with the franchise before-however I suspect my requirements may be different than yours.As far as the flight titles you mention-they are no longer with us either. Most who own them have bought the hardware. With no future new sales how long do you think the hardware manufactures will continue? Do you really think the future saitek/ch products will appear now?
Well, they're still with us (still in stock and being sold new on Amazon), but I was surprised on doing some research that they're in the same boat as FS now...still sold and supported, but no longer in development.Ubi does have a new fighter sim coming out in March called Hawx.But, that said, I remember in the '90s I had to go to mail order places like the old FlightSimCentral to find specialty items like the Thrustmaster FLCS and Saitek Cyborg joysticks. You couldn't find something like the Saitek X52 in the local chain stores. So you may be right about seeing stuff pulled back and becoming less mainstream, and we may need to mail order for that stuff once again, like before. But hardware wears out, and there are enough tens of thousands of joystick users I think there'll be a market still.I do have to concede that the number of other products going off to developer ValHalla is troubling. OTOH, if I were to fly every add-on I have for FS9 on a 1-hr flight sequentially, it'd take me weeks to get through them all. There's a part of me that's happy their obsolescence has been put on indefinite hold.CheersBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

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Bob, I've made it a point to post in public forums and in our own that Eaglesoft made the decison to build/support for both FS9 and FSX because we consider both to be viable.Everyone will eventually settle down and realize that flight sim enthusiast have two very nice platforms to enjoy even if MS decides to never bring FS to market again.
Well, that's sort of the point I want to make...MSFS is not going to vanish from the shelves, I mean they're still selling FS9 over 5 years after release. Until the day comes that OS or hardware platforms no longer support it, we still have a good working platform. Heck, FS9 is just coming into its own in the 64-bit world now. And if Microshaft doesn't come to their senses and revive development, then most certainly somebody else will. It may be very different, and many of us could lose years of expertise in programming, modelling, tweaking, and integrating for a platform that works pretty well...but in some manner the show will go on.It'll be interesting to see if Flight1 and others return to developing for FS9. I don't think it's too late to reconsider...PMDG certainly had a well-received change of heart on development of an FS9 version of the MD-11. And like I said before, not abandoning FS9 before FSX got "fixed" (e.g. FS11 released) is proving to be a wise call for those who made it. I understand the reasoning others used to move on from FS9, but I always thought it was a premature leap, given all the unresolved headaches with FSX, many of which still exist today.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

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"It'll be interesting to see if Flight1 and others return to developing for FS9. I don't think it's too late to reconsider...PMDG certainly had a well-received change of heart on development of an FS9 version of the MD-11. "Bob,Right on!I would like to see a 757 with fully programmable FMC, user editable NavData .txt files/SIDs/STARs/.xml files for FS9.

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Mack,Thank you for the link.Have a good day.

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QualityWings are working on one, there was a forum thread about it here not so long ago (a few days, at most).........and has been since Pontious was a pilot. Has this projuect reached fruition yet? I remember yonks ago reading all the hype about this, I kept looking at their website and nothing appeared. In the end I lost interest.

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........and has been since Pontious was a pilot. Has this projuect reached fruition yet? I remember yonks ago reading all the hype about this, I kept looking at their website and nothing appeared. In the end I lost interest.
Haha, quite right, it has been in development for a while now :) Nevertheless, it's being continually worked on, there are fairly recent progress reports in their forum. I'm not sure how big the development team is, but I think it's pretty small, which explains while they're taking their time. From what I remember, it won't be a Level-D or PMDG quality in-depth systems simulation, but it should be on par with what PSS had on offer. Gotta face it, it's par for course these days, one to two years for a medium-quality (systems wise) simulation and from two to four years for a high-quality addon, depending on the size of the development team.

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"I understand the reasoning others used to move on from FS9, but I always thought it was a premature leap..."In our view, the only reason to phase out development and support for an older, yet viable, sim version is if a newer, yet viable, sim version can replace it.In our case we happen to like FS9 and FSX :(

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For me, it's questionable whether something like FS11 will be released some day or not, Microsoft's plans and those of the ACES team are hidden. And, I miss a definitive statement that FS development has been cancelled for now and forever and the source code will be closed away infinitely.Things would look different if there'd be a clear decision to let the FS sequel end with FSX. Maybe there's some other flight simulator out there which could take over in this case, or some business model could be found to allow for such a new simulator.IMHO MS FS never was a platform to develop add ons for if developpers were asked. I only need to think of FSX' restriction to address more than 2 GB of memory...I'm sorry, but I don't believe in an infinite life for FS9 nor do I for FSX: Times change, OSs change, hardware, drivers and support change as well. Windows XP's as well as Vista's lifespan will come to an end sooner than one might think, and with a different OS, the support of "old" programs could lead to render them unusable. Many factors play a role here, and not going with the changing environment and improving products will sooner or later mean that old FS versions as well as old OSs will cease to work on new hardware. And no piece of hardware lives forever. Without change, things will come to a definitive end.The question for me is more what alternatives there are and if now wouldn't be a good point in time to rethink the flight sim situation from ground up. Maybe there needs to be a coalition established with FS platforms like X-Plane or Flight Gear and add-on developers. Maybe the prices will be much higher for both the sim and the add-ons, but maybe both the sim and add-ons will fly up to new, unexpected higher levels...Andreas

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Geof;First, I'm not happy to see ACES getting the corporate guillotine. It's a bad thing for everyone. But let's not pretend that M$ has provided a supportive, customer-oriented experience over the history of MSFS. I know people have a natural tendency to speak fondly of the dead, but the preponderance of M$ interaction with rank and file members of our community has been standoffish and unresponsive. Lately things have warmed a bit, but I attribute that more to the force of Phil Taylor's personality than anything M$ has done to improve things. There is a littany of problems that have carried over from version to version to version...a responsive outfit that cares about customer inputs wouldn't keep repeating the same gaffs, without lifting a finger to fix glaring errors like the transgenerational persistent wind shift problem.Showing support to the ACES team is a moot point...we didn't screw those people, the execs at Microshaft did that. But I won't pretend now that the support I got from M$ has been anything but the horribly dismal mess it has been. My two experiences with MSFS support were straight out of a prepared text by some language-challenged doofus that wouldn't know an aileron from his a**. I got canned answers that did not relate to the problem at hand or help at all. And there was no hint of any willingness to go beyond the text in the help checklist. You're telling me that I should treat an organization that came on to me as a mindless corporate behemoth that already had my money as a bunch of sensitive caring people now. If I need help, I come here to Avsim. What suppositions do you suggest are incorrect? I'm a bit baffled by the vague references on that. And why would Saitek and CH stop making joysticks? It's not like MSFS is the only program that uses 'em. I'd guess there are at least as many users of IL2 Sturmovik, Falcon 4.0, Lock-On, etc as there are of MSFS. And it's not like FS9 and FSX aren't still being sold.Anyway, it is what it is. I'm sorry to see the ACES team disbanded. That said, w/r/t the people there, layoffs and frequent job-to-job movement are a fact of life in the IT business and always have been. Anyone who could clear the quality bar enough to swing a job at Microshaft can land a job somewhere else.And I, too, am still buying FS9 add-ons. And an occasional FSX one, too, but that's probably going to stop.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO
Dear Mr. Scott,Dude, did you ever work on Project Blue Book ?. Were you ever made aware of Majestic 12.?Do you know how far Area 51 goes down.?KLAS-TV in Las Vegas has reported 22 levels. But they said maybe further.How about a joint venture at Hawthorne Lake Nevada between the USAF and the US Navy that goes underneath the continental shelf out to the Pacific Ocean.Too cool.Why does the USAF refuse to acknowledge the "Crash at Roswell" and continue the cover up along with the G.A.O. ?There were many witness's to the events at Roswell and also the Aztec crash and clean up teams.CheersI agree with your above post.Good-bye ACES.

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