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Dillon

This really ticks me off..

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The constant trend with some developers to slave the landing lights to the VC lighting (gauge, panel, or otherwise)...1. CLS 7672. Quality Wings 757 (being addressed in SP1)3. Some of Caranado's birds4. Flight1 has done this with aircraft like their PC12...For the record landing lights should have nothing to do with any lighting in the cockpit. I wish this oversite in development would stop.My latest aggravation is with CLS's 767. On their forums they've went so far as to exclude the dome light (guess it's time to change those marketing pictures)which really takes that add-on to a turn for the worse when it comes to night ops.What's one supposed to do sit at the gate with the landing lights on just to see properly in the cockpit? Luckily the referenceto the dome light was still in the 'aircraft.cfg' file allowing me to use their 742 dome light file as a replacement.I've worked with more that a few developers and none of the ones I work with do this. From Feelthere to Dreamfleet (hopefully things will be back up soon)none of them do this crap but many others do and it makes no since. EXTERIOR LIGHTING SHOULD HAVE NOTHING AND/OR NO EFFECT ON COCKPIT LIGHTING!!!Please stop this madness...In the case of CLS there's absolutly no excuse as this is a 'lite' add-on with more than enough room for all lighting to have it's own switch. I'd hate to say laziness isin play here (even the freeware guys get it)...Sorry for venting so bluntly but I'm getting sick of this FS2000/Year 2000 development technique that makes no since with today's add-ons.


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How many VC's have you modeled the lighting in? I ask, because I'm pretty certain you're ranting about something you know nothing about.There are limitations within FS and each developer has to make decisions based on them. One of the limitations is how FS supports VC lighting.


Ed Wilson

Mindstar Aviation
My Playland - I69

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Dillon, for FS9 models the landing light circuit is the only technique possible to provide VC gauge backlighting. So, any "portovers" of FS9 models to FSX "compatibility" are going to inherit this method. There's simply no other way.Fortunately, pure FSX models don't suffer from this particular limitation, but of course ACES introduced new complications which have their own set of workarounds.


Fr. Bill    

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How many VC's have you modeled the lighting in? I ask, because I'm pretty certain you're ranting about something you know nothing about.There are limitations within FS and each developer has to make decisions based on them. One of the limitations is how FS supports VC lighting.
O.k. then explain to my why the CLS 742 doesn't have this problem and niether do most of their other birds. Explain to me why most of Flight1's, Eaglesoft, Dreamfleet, and many others don't have this issue as well. This idiodic problem comes around every so ofter with certain products. The CLS 767 for example is a 'lite' aircraft, I'm not talking about the an add-on like LDS's 767, PMDG's 744 or MD11 (who actually have lighting modeled correctly by the way).
Dillon, for FS9 models the landing light circuit is the only technique possible to provide VC gauge backlighting. So, any "portovers" of FS9 models to FSX "compatibility" are going to inherit this method. There's simply no other way.Fortunately, pure FSX models don't suffer from this particular limitation, but of course ACES introduced new complications which have their own set of workarounds.
Bill I'm still an FS9 guy for another year. I posted this here as this is a universal problem concerning add-ons for both sims that hopefully stops...

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Bill I'm still an FS9 guy for another year. I posted this here as this is a universal problem concerning add-ons for both sims that hopefully stops...
Too bad....... Have you seen that Orbx Pacific Northwest scenery? :( L.Adamson

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Too bad....... Have you seen that Orbx Pacific Northwest scenery? :( L.Adamson
I'm getting it soon as I update my machine next year... :(

FS2020 

Alienware Aurora R11 10th Gen Intel Core i7 10700F - Windows 10 Home 32GB Ram
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 6GB GDDR6

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O.k. then explain to my why the CLS 742 doesn't have this problem and niether do most of their other birds. Explain to me why most of Flight1's, Eaglesoft, Dreamfleet, and many others don't have this issue as well. This idiodic problem comes around every so ofter with certain products. The CLS 767 for example is a 'lite' aircraft, I'm not talking about the an add-on like LDS's 767, PMDG's 744 or MD11 (who actually have lighting modeled correctly by the way).Bill I'm still an FS9 guy for another year. I posted this here as this is a universal problem concerning add-ons for both sims that hopefully stops...
Take a look how the CLS 767 guages are xml coded into the panel BMP where as their older birds panels arent. Does a great job for keeping the panel from eating framerates like a pacman. If you know as much as you think you do you probably wouldn't be shooting your mouth off.

Regards,

 

Dave Opper

HiFi Support Manager

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Take a look how the CLS 767 guages are xml coded into the panel BMP where as their older birds panels arent. Does a great job for keeping the panel from eating framerates like a pacman. If you know as much as you think you do you probably wouldn't be shooting your mouth off.
There's no need for that here Dave. Try finishing your posts one sentence sooner.

Jeremy "rightseater" Fletcher

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There's no need for that here Dave. Try finishing your posts one sentence sooner.
Yea that was out of line for me. My apologies to the OP. I should drink more coffee before reading.

Regards,

 

Dave Opper

HiFi Support Manager

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I have to say I'm with warpD on this one. Having read several forums for new addon aircraft this seems to crop up quite often and nearly always the developer states that it is a limitation problem or that they have to make a decision to model the lighting in certain ways to ensure fps and other features dont suffer.Granted there are developers that seem to have succeded in getting this issue sorted but I'm guessing they have had to make sacrificies in other ways.Personally I wouldn't say it's something that would prevent me from upgrading to fsx, especially with some of the scenery addons. But hey each to their own.Tom


Tom

 

Why not read some useful tips and tricks - http://forum.avsim.n...22#entry1965722

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Hi,I've seen aircraft with and without these limited FSX interior/exterior lighting schemes. Since some of these FSX lighting problems have been overcome by some 3rd party addon companies, maybe they should change the FSX limitations statement to (Insert Company Name Here) limitations and/or (Insert Company Name Here) decision to not include these features to increase FPS, although I disagree (to a certain point) about items being left out for an increase in FPS for the following reasons. 1. As many have stated in regards to FSX (and I agree), its smoothness that counts in FSX not FPS.2. As hardware improves so will FPS, yet we will be stuck with aircraft that have these lighting limitations and unless 3rd party companies update their software this will not change. With all due respect to all 3rd party aircraft creators, if a developer(s) has figured out how to correctly configure aircraft lighting/Switching, then its not an FSX limitation, its either a companies ability/inability to correctly add these lighting schemes or their unwillingness to add these items to their addon, it has nothing to do with FSX's limitations.Keep in mind this is JMHO and I reserve the right to change my mind. :(


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Thats true hardware is improving but software developers are wanting to make money now and won't wait for hardwareto catch up in the future so that's probably why certain developers choose various routes.Having said that it maybe it could be implemented as an update as and when hardware would allow.Tom


Tom

 

Why not read some useful tips and tricks - http://forum.avsim.n...22#entry1965722

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Hi,I've seen aircraft with and without these limited FSX interior/exterior lighting schemes. Since some of these FSX lighting problems have been overcome by some 3rd party addon companies, maybe they should change the FSX limitations statement to (Insert Company Name Here) limitations and/or (Insert Company Name Here) decision to not include these features to increase FPS, although I disagree (to a certain point) about items being left out for an increase in FPS for the following reasons. 1. As many have stated in regards to FSX (and I agree), its smoothness that counts in FSX not FPS.2. As hardware improves so will FPS, yet we will be stuck with aircraft that have these lighting limitations and unless 3rd party companies update their software this will not change. With all due respect to all 3rd party aircraft creators, if a developer(s) has figured out how to correctly configure aircraft lighting/Switching, then its not an FSX limitation, its either a companies ability/inability to correctly add these lighting schemes or their unwillingness to add these items to their addon, it has nothing to do with FSX's limitations.Keep in mind this is JMHO and I reserve the right to change my mind. :(
The initial problem IS an FS Limitation. Individual Developers have their own inique solutions to the FS Limitation and some "not so much". :(

Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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Maybe I shouldn't have posted this in the FSX forum as I see concessions are still being made to keep FPS up in this sim. I use FS9 and have been seeing this for years. The same developer will go both ways with aircraft that aren't that much different that the others they produce (Caranado is a great example of this. Flight1's PC12 versus their Cessna 441 is another example if memory serves me correctly. All FS9 aircraft prior to the realities of FSX when they were developed). I understand at the onset for this development technique but now that FPS is a none issue in FS9 there's no need for lighting schemes like this. It's sad this accommodation has to be done on the FSX side of the tracks but how are some developers of the most complex birds able to get around the issue? By all means if it's possible landing lights shouldn't be tied to internal cockpit lighting in any since. In the FS9 world there's no excuse for this but on the FSX side of things there seems to be a case to be made...


FS2020 

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NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 6GB GDDR6

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Dillon, I honestly don't know what else can be done that hasn't already been done to remediate this issue......after all, it's not as if the information needed by any developer isn't available for free no less!Years ago I published a White Paper that outlined the specific techniques and steps needed for emissive backlighting for FS8 and FS9. Several years ago I updated that White Paper to descibe the changes and improvements needed for pure FSX models at the specific request of MS/ACES, who then made it availble to the public on MS's own Microsoft Developers Network website!It's also featured prominently on at least two well-know flightsim wiki sites...A google search for "FS emissive lighting" will yield thousands of references to articles and posts, most of which provide links back to those two aforementioned White Papers... :( As it happens, at my specific request, ACES themselves reinstated the "old FS9 emissive backlighting scheme" in FSX as part of their SP2/Acceleration updates.So, the information needed is not a secret... It appears to me that there simply isn't enough thought given to "lighting" during the pre-planning process. It's as though "lighting" is only considered as an afterthought...For any project, "lighting" must be an integral part of the pre-planning process, as "lighting" is a synthesis of the model, the gauge/panel system, and the graphics art. Inadequate thought and/or poor decisions made during the pre-planning process can and do result in subpar results at the end of the development cycle, at which time it is far too late to make the requisite changes... :(


Fr. Bill    

AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556


     Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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