This case highlights the vast differences between America and "the rest of the world".All of you who think that children being allowed to talk directly to air crew as ATC is quote "awesome" unquote, please make yourselves known to the UK CAA and be banned from flying in ICAO airspace for life! That kind of attitude is simply not tollerated in Europe or in any other part of the world except N America! Your pilot's licences are not valid in Europe anyway!! (and a good thing too!)Vololiberista

hmm

This case highlights the vast differences between America and "the rest of the world".All of you who think that children being allowed to talk directly to air crew as ATC is quote "awesome" unquote, please make yourselves known to the UK CAA and be banned from flying in ICAO airspace for life! That kind of attitude is simply not tollerated in Europe or in any other part of the world except N America! Your pilot's licences are not valid in Europe anyway!! (and a good thing too!)Vololiberista

While I don't think what the controller did twice (his daughter was in the next day) was appropriate I like how you constantly attempt to turn any conversation into "America is awful because x." Grow up Volo!The rest of the world has a long history of incidents/accidents caused by unprofessional pilots/controllers just like the US. Complacency knows no borders. And my FAA pilot's license works quiet well in the UK thank you.

While I don't think what the controller did twice (his daughter was in the next day) was appropriate I like how you constantly attempt to turn any conversation into "America is awful because x." Grow up Volo!The rest of the world has a long history of incidents/accidents caused by unprofessional pilots/controllers just like the US. Complacency knows no borders. And my FAA pilot's license works quiet well in the UK thank you.

What I don't understand is why is the focus on the controllers. The pilots are PIC-they make the ultimate choice of safety-they are in charge-and they accepted the clearances from the kid(s). Perhaps as highly trained professionals they could make a safe decision? The media seems to have missed this completely-but what else is new-especially when concerning aviation...Personally I don't think any safety was compromised-but why is the media blaming the controller(s)-when ultimately it is the PIC who is in charge?With this logic of "safety" being compromised (which it wasn't) I guess I should never let a guest on my plane take the controls under my supervision or allow them to make a call to atc under my supervision. ...and in my area of the world-the atc trainees who are being supervised by an instructor and do make mistakes which actually can cause safety concerns (like vectoring me too close to the plane in front of me a few weeks ago) should also make national news.Much to do about nothing-media gets to sell more advertising by hyping, and people like my mother lecture me how unsafe flying is based on this idiotic press hype even though she knows diddly about flying and I've been doing it for 20 years. I find it appalling.Once again-considering today's climate-was perhaps not the brightest thing for the controller to do. But there was no safety issue-period... Seems like the professionals involved-pilots (several) and the controllers actually got a kick out of it and saw it as a positive thing-but then in my experience pilot's tend to be positive and upbeat people-media-generally uneducated and will do anything to sell advertising/further their career at all costs-including ruining peoples lives...

Where I fly is a big training area for controllers. The novice controllers issue instructions-often wrong-and then an instructor immediately jumps in if he/she screws something up and takes control. The kid was not working approach/departure so the instructions were very simple, and my understanding is the Dad was an instructor, and of course would have immdediately taken over if something was done wrong.I don't see it as a safety issue-just a stupid issue. In today's environment very foolish..and the media loves blowing it up causing knee jerk reactions.I have given the controls of an airplane to kids when I fly (in Civil Air Patrol that is part of the educational program for cadets) and even coached them what to say on the radio and had them use it, but of course would never let them do/say anything that would put anyone in danger or wrong. I don't think anything different happened here. If I were to assign blame-it would be on the pilots. If I heard a little kid issuing commands on the frequency the first thing I would ask is what is going on-after all a kid nearby with a handheld radio could be doing it to cause mayhem.Interesting that the media hasn't placed any blame there-after all they are PIC-not the controller.

I agree, no safety issue involved even though the actions were ill advised.Not ill advised regarding Father/Son/Pilot interaction, but rather failure to realize just how "uptight" the aviation industry has become since the September 11th attack.Pre 9/11 this would not be blown out of prorportion by the "uptight" media. I've heard scarier stuff from Veteran Controllers in Bravo and Charlie and there are a few well known folks around Chicago/Ft. Wayne area that make you hope that this is their "day off" before you get there. :(

What is it with American airspace!!! If that were to happen in the UK the controllers would be criminally charged! And so they should. It is absolutely appalling that a controller should even allow it to cross his mind to let a child "control" a/c. There is no excuse nor can there be any argument made in defence of the controller.Vololiberista

Do you work in the industry? And if so are you implying that the UK is perfect in all aspects? If so you must be new because I can tell you a hundred stories and then you could really be appalled. Before calling the hangman, get the full story. There was never any danger to anyone and thats why no one made a deal out of it till someone decided too, the press as usual......"This case highlights the vast differences between America and "the rest of the world".P.S. Would you care to review the safety record of the USA vs. other nations w/ the same number of flights on a daily basis,......I thought so.

The perception is a risk in itself, but not only the perception. Whether we like it or not, the media at large will jump on it, and since we know they will (and in this case have), anyone in a position to affect that should not be indulging in activities which give the hacks a free bucket full of ammunition. I don't like that any more than anyone else, which is in fact why I stopped working as a writer for a daily newspaper some years ago, and decided to write about aeroplanes instead, but that is the way it is at newspapers. If you hand them the ammo, you can be sure they will shoot it at you. It's a crappy soulless job, which is why I quit, but it is their job, and apparently unlike those controllers at JFK, they will do it properly, because that's how they sell papers and get on.Apart from that, to claim there was no risk of danger, is to ignore the fact that Murphy is always lurking around the corner, ready to invoke his law, and in aviation, which is one of the most unforgiving of arenas, it is always dangerous to have the 'what could possibly go wrong?' attitude in your pocket, because you can be sure that sooner rather than later, you will find out just exactly what can go wrong, as Murphy delights in showing you.Let's say for example someone came on frequency, then tied up the frequency with questions about the presence of a child issuing commands (a not unreasonable thing to have done), and in doing so prevented someone from being told to halt their taxi. The real controller could leap to the mike for all he was worth, but if someone was blocking transmission in querying his stupidity, he might just as well try smoke signals for all the good it would do, and whose fault would it have been if someone had done that and prevented a warning going out to prevent a collision?This is not an unlikely possibility either, there have been numerous collisions between aircraft on the ground at airports that have resulted in fatalities over the years (including the worst aviation disaster of all time, at Los Rodeos airport, Tenerife when two 747s collided on the runway thanks to a lapse in radio discipline), and you would like to think an air traffic controller might just possibly have heard about that one. It is well known that you don't have to be in the air to be in danger where aircraft movements are concerned, and anyone who flies aeroplanes will know that is true. To even flirt with the chance of this happening, is enough of a reason to know one should not risk it if one does not have to. And if anyone doesn't think there is any danger of collisions on the ground at JFK, I invite them to do a Google search on: 'ground collision jfk'.That's the problem and here's the equation: great dad + crap decision + poor PR + very poor acceptance of responsibility x journo out to make a name for himself + the opportunity to do so via a chrome-plated gift horse = bad press for aviation and FAA investigationAl

Aw come on now! While I don't agree with the controller's decision, if wasn't his kid giving actual instructions, as said by someone, he was only mimicking his father. Sure! A whole load of things can go wrong, but come on, let's be realistic, let's be logical: Was the kid on the radio at a rush hour? Or talking to a crew with lousy English? The bloke has a license to control airplanes at one of the busiest airports in the world. He isn't THAT stupid.

This case highlights the vast differences between America and "the rest of the world".All of you who think that children being allowed to talk directly to air crew as ATC is quote "awesome" unquote, please make yourselves known to the UK CAA and be banned from flying in ICAO airspace for life! That kind of attitude is simply not tollerated in Europe or in any other part of the world except N America! Your pilot's licences are not valid in Europe anyway!! (and a good thing too!)Vololiberista

Oh really? Have you heard of the concept of "License validation"? Sure doesn't look like it. As already said by someone, Europe has its record of accidents too; so does the rest of the world.Oh, by the way, parallel to this story, remember the guy who flew for 13 years and + 10.000 hours? Guess where that was...

I tend to agree that in reality there was little danger, although in practice I still think it was risky and did tempt fate a little, and was thus not particularly smart. Either way, the mere fact that it has raised a discussion here in this forum and raised a few eyebrows at the FAA, means it was not a smart thing to do. That is just the way the world works.We know that what the media at large generally writes about aeroplanes that is entirely factual, could comfortably fit on a postage stamp, but we also know that when the FAA thinks that public perception is harmed, they have to do something about it. Not always the right thing is done as far as facts go, but you know that they will go with the appearance of doing the right thing if it comes right down to it. Since most of us know that is the case, you have to agree that the controllers in question ought to have thought about that too.Al

Aw come on now! While I don't agree with the controller's decision, if wasn't his kid giving actual instructions, as said by someone, he was only mimicking his father. Sure! A whole load of things can go wrong, but come on, let's be realistic, let's be logical: Was the kid on the radio at a rush hour? Or talking to a crew with lousy English? The bloke has a license to control airplanes at one of the busiest airports in the world. He isn't THAT stupid.Oh really? Have you heard of the concept of "License validation"? Sure doesn't look like it. As already said by someone, Europe has its record of accidents too; so does the rest of the world.Oh, by the way, parallel to this story, remember the guy who flew for 13 years and + 10.000 hours? Guess where that was...

"This case highlights the vast differences between America and "the rest of the world".All of you who think that children being allowed to talk directly to air crew as ATC is quote "awesome" unquote, please make yourselves known to the UK CAA and be banned from flying in ICAO airspace for life! That kind of attitude is simply not tollerated in Europe or in any other part of the world except N America! Your pilot's licences are not valid in Europe anyway!! (and a good thing too!)"Vololiberista Well thank GOD I don't live in that perfect world known as Europe.....at least your part of it

Of course, in Europe drugs are ok... alcohol is ok... sex is ok... whatever the age. However conversing like an adult when you're not... clearly criminal!!

Hello!Been following this story for a couple of days, and saw something interesting:http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/pilot...pended-contr...Then I remembered something I heard on YouTube a while back that's kinda related to this story, and if you haven't heard it, here it is:

Now... after hearing this clip, I wondered what happened to the pilot & the controllers after the FAA heard about it... do you think they yanked the pilot's ticket & fired the controllers? I don't think so. I think the FAA needs to relax a little bit here. Sure, it was at JFK instead of Prescott, AZ but look... the kid had his dad there and a supervisor watching everything he said to make sure it was kosher; it wasn't like the kid was handling a squawk 7700 or something...Just my 2

I think it was not harm done and it was great to hear the 7year old on the RT. the man should have his job back and get a warnning. shafs.

If it had occured at Oshkosh or Lakeland even during heavy traffic I would have had a concern.As it is I thought the kids did a teriffic job and not once did I feel anyone was in jeopardy. Dad, the controller, was right there making sure all was stated correctly and at the right time. Nor do I have any doubt he was there with headset in place.I do believe the controller should have paid more respect to the FAA rules TRACON lives by and sought appropriate clearance (if available by any means) to have the kids in tower. Punishment was warranted in my opinion by a repremand in the controlers employment jacket and maybe a couple of days off work in my mind. On the other hand with the issues facing air travel today coupled with raised concern in the public view I can understand why they were terminated.Average people who do not understand the innner workings of aviation understandably were drawing a far different picture than I. So much goes unnoticed behind the scene and most citizens have no idea of the depth of the rules which govern aviation.This is a very good time for Craig (president) at AOPA along with staff to look at enhanced ways to better educate the public on the safety standards, rules, and strict enforcement standards the FAA operates by. If the general public were more aware of the standards and strictness I believe public fear of such incidents would be much deminished along with the news worthyness of this stroy.We must remember however this did happen on the heals of an a near tragedy on the Hudson river and after a horrific decision by a delusional GA pilot to take his life, revenge on the IRS in Austin, and result in the taking of an innocent person from us. The timing of the controler and his supervisor could not have been worse from this view alone.All certificate holders along with those who seek them need to learn from this and hold tightly to the FAR so we do not futher damage the way aviation is viewed by those on the outside.My hope is that all non commercial areas of GA in particular will at some recent point in time be granted the same rights that Sport Pilot certification has been granted. That would be allowing all who apply for the classes specifically of Sport, Recreational, and Private aviation to be considered as eligible to hold certificates based on driving records and get this burden of time and expense of medicals out of the way. Certainly if the passing of legislation making health records electronic and allowing the FAA access upon approval by applicants should help this process along. This in itself is a good reason for everyone to to be cautiously aware and following the written guidelines / rules to the letter and is why I commented on this off topic issue to begin with.I thank the man above that this story has apparently met a quick end in the news. Let us hope the memory of the event meets the same fate and the story does not live on as has so many other incidents since 9-11.N9ZN

In this case, I can't help but think of the movie Airplane! in which Captain Clarence Oveur gave a tour of the cockpit to young Timmy and like the controller in this case, both got screwed. Addtional radio chatter however, could have created a distraction, a transcript of which follows:Pilot2: Sounds like there is trouble in the tower.Pilot3: The tower!? What is it???Pilot2: It is the tall building where the air traffic controllers sit, but that is not important now. We have a kid directing ATC.But in all seriousness, you could have just as well have inserted a voice synthisizing computer in this case. Either way, the kid is not "controlling" anything, but just parroting the real controller's words.Anyone who says this is a big deal is overstating the difficulty of speaking a few words into a microphone. Spare me.I knew they'd get her down. And down safe.

The world really is in a pathetic state right now.