Hey everyone,I've been doing bush flying and typical GA flying pretty much since the first Flight Simulator I ever played - not that I've always been a heavy FS user, but lately I've really been getting into it. I bought a TrackIR 5 and upgraded my PC to finally enjoy FSX.Now I want to start getting into flying heavies but I'm not satisfied with the default aircraft included in FSX. I would really like some suggestions in what to get. I'm OK with payware, even the expensive stuff, especially if it has great documentation that isn't just a rehash of an actual flight manual - I would like stuff like tutorials to walk me through everything from startup to takeoff, cruise, landing, etc. I can handle complexity so I don't necessarily need one that is very watered down from reality and such, just want to make sure it's documented well for anyone who isn't necessarily a real heavy pilot.Also, a 100% interactive and good looking virtual cockpit is a must!!I would strongly prefer one that comes with a cargo variant (or is a cargo plane outright) because that's just the kind of stuff I'm interested, not pax operations. I also would like something that is actually still in use today. Here are some I've been looking at to give you an idea:-Captain Sim 727 (with cargo expansion)-Captain Sim C-130-PMDG MD-11Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!-m

I have the FSX PMDG MD-11 and it is a fanstastic plane. Full working VC along with FMS. After FSX starts you can load a VC panel that has you ready for takeoff (you will need to load the FMS info if you are going to fly a flight plan) or you can start from cold & dark. You can put as much time into preparing the cockpit for taxi/takeoff as you want. This MD-11 also has a cargo variant. Lots of freeware paints available right here in the avsim library. There is also a support forum at avsim. The manuals are very extensive and it comes with two tutorials. After you master the two tutorials you can pretty much load the FMS and fly the plane. How much time you put into learning all the by the book real world stuff is up to you.

I have the FSX PMDG MD-11 and it is a fanstastic plane. Full working VC along with FMS. After FSX starts you can load a VC panel that has you ready for takeoff (you will need to load the FMS info if you are going to fly a flight plan) or you can start from cold & dark. You can put as much time into preparing the cockpit for taxi/takeoff as you want. This MD-11 also has a cargo variant. Lots of freeware paints available right here in the avsim library. There is also a support forum at avsim. The manuals are very extensive and it comes with two tutorials. After you master the two tutorials you can pretty much load the FMS and fly the plane. How much time you put into learning all the by the book real world stuff is up to you.

I'm going to pass the buck on that one. Sorry. But, I recommend you take a look at the Aircraft Review seciton here at Avsim if you haven't done so. I know it can take a while but it is a fantastic place to start. Most, if not all, aircraft are reviewed there and the write-ups are well documented. I believe that will help you to most. Good luck. Chris

If you want a comprehensive learning tool that will gently introduce you to the complexities of airliners and take you right through to doing complex stuff painlessly, then there is no better thing out there than this book: http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Boeing-700-Flight-Simulators/dp/0936283106/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290345936&sr=1-1You can buy that book in PDF format as a download if you don't want to wait for the postman to deliver it, here: http://www.flightsimstore.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=169&products_id=313Either as a PDF or in printed form, that is a marvelous way to learn that stuff which I heartily recommend. It's a good, entertaining read too, so working your way through it actually pretty enjoyable, and it would serve you well for a good many FS add-on airliners too.I'd slightly hesitate to recommend the three aircraft you mention (CS C-130, PMDG MD-11 and CS B727), and that's not because they are not good add-ons - quite the opposite - they're all excellent and right up there with the best you can get, but I don't think they're especially the best possible choice for what you are wanting. The C-130 is pretty unique as far as systems go, so to learn that would not really give you transferable skills for other aircraft systems, and the same is true of the MD-11, which being neither a true Boeing design nor an Airbus, has it's own rather unique way of doing things, so again, the skills gained in learning how to operate it do not so easily transfer to other more common aircraft. As far as the 727 is concerned, that too is a good FS add-on (although you do have to tweak a few things on it to get it flying right, especially the trim), but the problem is that it is an older aircraft, and again, that means it's not a great introduction to flying a wide array of airliners as it uses older traditional VOR navigation. Of course if any of them appeal strongly to you and you'd stick to flying that type alone, then yes, go get em, as they are all marvelous toys, and every one of them is an aircraft that is big on hauling cargo as you are no doubt aware.Sort of related to that point about the 727's older nav systems, if you do want a big cargo aircraft that uses older style navigational systems in a more typically realistic fashion, then another add-on you might want to look at is the Aerosoft SimCheck Airbus A300 (yet another one reviewed by me on Avsim, deservedly winning a Gold Star Award). It has a working Inertial Navigation System as opposed to the FMC which more modern airliners have. So although it's probably not the best introduction to anyone wanting to fly FMC airliners, it's undeniably an excellent add-on that has a great tutorial, and of course the A300 is mainly a cargo aircraft these days. Therefore, this is not a strong recommendation for exactly what you want at the moment, but is something you might want to look at in the future maybe.One really very sensible option would be to get the Wilco/PIC Boeing 737 plus the specific training tool which is available for it called Aviation and Mission. There is a review of Aviation and Mission here on Avsim, (by me actually), and there's also a review of the aircraft here on Avsim, in which it too won a Gold Star Award. The Wilco 737 is showing its age a bit these days as far as prettiness of the VC goes, but where realistic flight and systems modeling is concerned, it's one of the best FS aircraft you can get, and it's good value too, since you get three variants which work in both FSX and FS9, although Aviation and Mission only works with the FSX variant since it uses the FSX mission system. Of interest is the fact that Wilco have said they will be giving this 737 a makeover at some point to get it up to more modern standards, but if you can live with it not having the prettiest VC in the meantime, then you won't be disappointed with the realism of its systems, which include a damn-near fully operational overhead, full FMC capabilities and a flight model that is one of the most faithful to a real aircraft of all FS add-ons. Again, the classic 737s in this package (300, 400 and 500 series) are well suited to cargo, as many classic 737s have been converted to carry cargo these days with the addition of a cargo door up front and the g-netting and roller floors.Ironically enough, considering you have just upgraded your computer to use FSX better, a good choice would I think be the newly-released FS9 iFly B737. That's for a few reasons: in the first place, if anyone buys the FS9 version, they are supposedly going to get a considerable discount when the FSX version is released (probably about 15.99). The modern NG 737 variants are great aircraft on which to learn all the current avionics systems such as FMC navigation and all that, and the Smiths avionics in the 737 are also to be found in a number of other Boeings, so that's a skill set which will serve you well for other Boeings and such. The iFly 737 has a great VC and great functionality too, with almost all the controls in the cockpit fully functioning apart from a few minor things which don't really matter too much.Aside from that prospective FSX discount, the iFly is good value anyway, being that you get all of the NG range of aircraft from the 600, 700, 800 and 900 series to the BBJ variants as well. That's not the entire NG range, but it's very nearly all of them. If you are prepared to hang on a bit though, the PMDG 737 will be out pretty soon (ish), and that's almost certainly going to be a must-have for any FSX-er who is into airliners, so that's a bit of a dilemma, but as I say, the iFly one is good, so having both would be no hardship.Beyond these, I think the Quality Wings 757 would be another good choice too. It's somewhat simplified in comparison to the CS 757 as far as modeling every system is concerned, but the simplifications are mostly about convenience rather than dumbing down, so that's a good compromise to make, especially for those who are new to all that airliner systems stuff. Of a similar ilk, the Aerosoft A320 is another which takes that simplification methodology, and again, that's possibly a good choice, because the Aerosoft A320 is earmarked for a 'realism upgrade' in the future, which will add more systems. Like the iFly FSX variant, the souped up Aerosoft A320 will be discounted to those who have bought the current version, so it's an aircraft which will grow with you. at the moment, the A320 is among the airliners getting attention from a couple of developers, so although there are not too many realistic Airbuses around, inthe not too distant future that will probably change, and since that will include the A380, you might want to bear that mind, because if you like flying cargo, then being the biggest airliner in the world, the A380 is set to be the mother of all cargo airliners.I'm sure people will be along on this thread with more recommendations, but anyway, there's a few to consider.Al

CLS or QualityWings are a good start for a beginner, although I'd recommend the PMDG 747X and learning everything by following the tutorial flight until you can start from cold and dark, program the fmc, and ready to taxi in 10 minutes.

Hi,Guess I'll add my 2 cents. Even though its been on the market some time, system/sub system wise, she cannot be beat. I would suggest Level-D's 767 with André Folkers VC mod.

The MD-11 would be an excellent choice. It has the advantage of a high degree of automation that you can rely on while learning, but also a lot of depth in systems simulation. It also performs very well in FSX.Of the Boeings that are currently available for FSX, the Level-D 767 would be a good choice. The main drawback here is that the VC does not look as good as more recent products.

Hi,Guess I'll add my 2 cents. Even though its been on the market some time, system/sub system wise, she cannot be beat. I would suggest Level-D's 767 with André Folkers VC mod.

+1 :( :( :( Jim

PMDG MD11 is easily the best modern jetliner ive tried for FSX, the systems modelling are very good and the graphics are also very good. It has a good tutorial and very comprehensive manuals. The only real drawbacks are that almost nobody flies them in real life anymore, except for cargo haulers, so if you want to fly real life pax routes then your choice of routes will be limited. Another drawback (at least for me) is that its a long range plane, so if you want to fly real life routes you'd have to be prepared to have those 8 hour ++ flights.

CLS or QualityWings are a good start for a beginner, although I'd recommend the PMDG 747X and learning everything by following the tutorial flight until you can start from cold and dark, program the fmc, and ready to taxi in 10 minutes.

only downside to 747 is if you are looking for realism .. the aircraft is top notch .. but this is a 8 - 16 hr flight aircraft .. doesnt feel right flying from Houston to Dallas in a 747.

only downside to 747 is if you are looking for realism .. the aircraft is top notch .. but this is a 8 - 16 hr flight aircraft .. doesnt feel right flying from Houston to Dallas in a 747.

They do use 747's in Japan for high density short haul routes (Tokyo-Osaka)Boeing even made a -400 variant for these route types 747-400D.Regards.Ernie.

Yup, the 400D is a 747 that makes really rather short flights with high-density seating, unfortunately the only 400D you'll find for FSX is the Aerosim one, which is a fairly light affair unless it gets souped up with (of course) ISG instruments and a few other bits and pieces. I bought it and I have actually done those tweaks to it, which makes it okay, but it's still probably not what the OP wants as there is a bit of faffing about necessary to get it suitable for the kind of realism the he seems to have in mind.Most of what is necessary to get comfortable with modern jetliner systems is best achieved by planning and carrying out flights a lot, until one is used to it, so really, that means something smaller which you can make plenty of approaches and departures in the time you have available to do so. Good as PMDG's big birds are, the 737 or an MD of some description will be a better choice for that kind of thing.Al

That's why I fly cargo 747F's so many shorter routes, especially in Europe.

A good start into these heavies would be CLS's Airbus Series, or the ever famed 747-200/300 from the same author. The only "beginner" 747s that I've found so far is Overland's famous 747-400 from the Fly To The Sky! package, but this one's just well too basic. I enjoyed it though! I didn't have to do much with the controls onboard. Dave.

Yup, I agree that the CLS 747-200/300 is a good choice. It has a great VC and the selectable choice of a (simplified) FMC or more traditional navigational INS equipment, but is still complex enough to be fun, and one could always put the ISG Smiths FMC in there at some point and make it more complex. The CLS has a great cargo expansion pack too, that is inexpensive.Unless you faff about with it by adding updated instruments like I have, the Aerosim 747 is what you might call a 'beginner 747' in that it has a 'psuedo FMC' which is really just a means to load an FS flight plan in the guise of a glorified radio, but it is pricey for something that is a 'lite' simulation, although it is undeniably a nice model with a very pretty VC.Al