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bmarcoux2

Eaglesoft Citation 2.0

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Anybody else having autopilot problems on this plane. When I turnon autopilot (even with Nothing selected on the mcp) I have No turning control. I should be able to turn the plane with only Alt hold turned on for the autopilot. Something I need to check? I've looked at Eaglesoft fourm and didn't see anything. Thanks for any help

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Anybody else having autopilot problems on this plane. When I turnon autopilot (even with Nothing selected on the mcp) I have No turning control. I should be able to turn the plane with only Alt hold turned on for the autopilot. Something I need to check? I've looked at Eaglesoft fourm and didn't see anything. Thanks for any help
I answered this in the Eaglesoft forums.This aircraft will not allow 'only Alt hold'. The real one doesn't, ours doesn't. There is nothing wrong with the aircraft's autopilot. There is something wrong with your expectations.

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There no current Real World dual-axis autopilots that will allow you to "turn" when the altitude hold is active of which I'm aware.Some aircraft have a CWS (Control Wheel Steering) button on the yokes that will temporarily inhibit the "wing leveler" function to allow turns, or some similar system.Any other behavior is throughly unrealistic.*EDIT: additions made in red above for further clarity

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Note to self.: Never purchase Eaglesoft product with comments like that, be it right or wrong.
I Agree, I know I'll never buy another one and I own 3. I've seen it on most of there reply's to there AC. You'd get a much more polite and less argumentive respone if you went to Cessna themselves and ask why is this that way!!!!!

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1 - The OP is asking if others are having autopilot problems, based on wanting to do something with the aircraft they've already been told it won't do. This implies, publicly, that there's something wrong with the autopilot.2 - The OP stated they looked in the Eaglesoft forums and "didn't see anything". Well, what they did see was me telling them this autopilot doesn't work that way. But it's ok for them to misrepresent what actually happened, right? Wrong.3 - Just because you don't like the answer you get in the official support forums doesn't mean you can go to another public forum and misrepresent what support you did get.I saw another person's thread about reviews... and it always amazes me that users can scream about their percieved malignments of information provided and then turn around and do exactly the same thing and it's perfectly fine for them to behave that way. It's called hypocrisy.

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1 - The OP is asking if others are having autopilot problems, based on wanting to do something with the aircraft they've already been told it won't do. This implies, publicly, that there's something wrong with the autopilot.2 - The OP stated they looked in the Eaglesoft forums and "didn't see anything". Well, what they did see was me telling them this autopilot doesn't work that way. But it's ok for them to misrepresent what actually happened, right? Wrong.3 - Just because you don't like the answer you get in the official support forums doesn't mean you can go to another public forum and misrepresent what support you did get.I saw another person's thread about reviews... and it always amazes me that users can scream about their percieved malignments of information provided and then turn around and do exactly the same thing and it's perfectly fine for them to behave that way. It's called hypocrisy.
FIRST Have your facts straight. I did not see your response in YOUR forum. That was my fault because I acc. posted it in the fsx forum so when I went to look in the fs9 forum I didn't see it there. I almost allways come to AVSIM forums to get an ansewer on question no matter whos product it is because I always get quick responses from people who ACTUALLY use the product. And I never get a "No stupiud, it dosen't work that way" response here. Sounds like you need to go back to your fourm. We can figure things out here. And yes I CAN go to any fourm and state my opinion on a product THAT I BOUGHT (Eaglesoft might want to remember who pays the salaries) any time I like or until Tom or someone here ask me not to in which case I will respect his and AVSIM's wishes.

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FIRST Have your facts straight. I did not see your response in YOUR forum. That was my fault because I acc. posted it in the fsx forum so when I went to look in the fs9 forum I didn't see it there. I almost allways come to AVSIM forums to get an ansewer on question no matter whos product it is because I always get quick responses from people who ACTUALLY use the product. And I never get a "No stupiud, it dosen't work that way" response here. Sounds like you need to go back to your fourm. We can figure things out here. And yes I CAN go to any fourm and state my opinion on a product THAT I BOUGHT (Eaglesoft might want to remember who pays the salaries) any time I like or until Tom or someone here ask me not to in which case I will respect his and AVSIM's wishes.
I'm not responsible for you reading or not reading replies to your posts in the Eaglesoft forums. I can only assume that since you made no further posts, you had read it.As for the term 'stupid'. If I wanted to call you that, I would state it quite clearly and not cloak it in typical forum doublespeak.

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FIRST Have your facts straight. I did not see your response in YOUR forum. That was my fault because I acc. posted it in the fsx forum so when I went to look in the fs9 forum I didn't see it there. I almost allways come to AVSIM forums to get an ansewer on question no matter whos product it is because I always get quick responses from people who ACTUALLY use the product. And I never get a "No stupiud, it dosen't work that way" response here. Sounds like you need to go back to your fourm. We can figure things out here. And yes I CAN go to any fourm and state my opinion on a product THAT I BOUGHT (Eaglesoft might want to remember who pays the salaries) any time I like or until Tom or someone here ask me not to in which case I will respect his and AVSIM's wishes.
All he meant by it "not meeting your expectations" is that the way FS tends to model its autopilot by default (at least via the little use_no_default_bank/pitch" cheats) is what people come to expect in reality/in realistic addons....but trust me...all you'll do in a real C750 (and many others) by moving the yoke past a certain degree is actually disconnecting the autopilot and returning to manual flight...(i think thats also what downed an A310 operated by aeroflot if i remember right...)in a real C750 theres no way to selectively engage the servos individually...hence no manual roll control with any vertical mode engaged.--xavier/pict

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All he meant by it "not meeting your expectations" is that the way FS tends to model its autopilot by default (at least via the little use_no_default_bank/pitch" cheats) is what people come to expect in reality/in realistic addons....but trust me...all you'll do in a real C750 (and many others) by moving the yoke past a certain degree is actually disconnecting the autopilot and returning to manual flight...(i think thats also what downed an A310 operated by aeroflot if i remember right...)in a real C750 theres no way to selectively engage the servos individually...hence no manual roll control with any vertical mode engaged.--xavier/pict
HelloI would have thought that the OP being in the market for the most realistic rendition for FS9 or FSX of the CX would have understood the functions and limitations of the actual aircraft being simulated, why else would he want to simulate that aircraft.Eaglesoft have delivered what is the most accurate depiction CX to date, but you do need to study it to get the most enjoyment from it.Ed's frustration after coding these advanced avionics is that folks cannot be bothered to read the documentation.

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"There is nothing wrong with the aircraft's autopilot. There is something wrong with your expectations".A somewhat more tactful reply would not have ruffled feathers. You blew it and you should apologize; then you might just recoup the future sales you lost. Mine included.Bob

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Here's the original post in the Eaglesoft forums:

Is it not possable to turn the ac manualy with the alt hold btn on. Also I noticed an entry in the cfg file fsuipc. Should that be set to =0 if I do not have a registered version of fsuipc. Thanks.
Here's my original reply in the Eaglesoft forums:
It's impossible to fly this aircraft with only a vertical autopilot mode active.That entry is nothing for you to be concerned with.
The OP states (incorrectly) there's something wrong with the autopilot... States (incorrectly) it should do something it shouldn't... States (incorrectly) that they saw nothing in the Eaglesoft forums regarding this exact issue.Clearly the OP's expectations are that the autopilot should function exactly like the default FS autopilot (which doesn't match any real world autopilot). As I stated, there's something wrong with the OP's expectations. Since when has being honest in one's reply translated to tactless? Do you prefer someone lie to you?

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"There is nothing wrong with the aircraft's autopilot. There is something wrong with your expectations".A somewhat more tactful reply would not have ruffled feathers. You blew it and you should apologize; then you might just recoup the future sales you lost. Mine included.Bob
HelloSince when have guys started to get so sensitive.JC we will all be wearing skirts at this rate, The OP expected a default AP, Ed coded a true to life autopilot which did not meet those expectations and pointed that out to the OP.To me it goes like thisI want to simulate a specific aircraft.I research that aircraft, I then research which development team has taken the trouble to simulate that aircraft.If that developers scope of simulation matches my expectations based on what I have researched about that aircraft I get my CC out.In my opinion the OP bit off more than he could chew, and there are lighter addons that he may enjoy.

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There no Real World dual-axis autopilots that will allow you to "turn" when the altitude hold is active.Some aircraft have a CWS (Control Wheel Steering) button on the yokes that will temporarily inhibit the "wing leveler" function to allow turns, or some similar system.Any other behavior is throughly unrealistic.
Uh...gotta disagree here. The Sperry SP-77 in the B737-200, and the Collins A/P on the C-141B are both examples of split-axis autopilots that will indeed support turning with Alt Hold engaged.I used to fly night circling approaches in the StarLizard into "black hole" locations like Patrick AFB using the turn controller and the altitude hold engaged until I was halfway around the turn and could see the runway environment. We had a 141 pack it in at Cairo West during a night circle...another place where lack of lights around the airfield make it easy to descend into the dirt.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

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Uh...gotta disagree here. The Sperry SP-77 in the B737-200, and the Collins A/P on the C-141B are both examples of split-axis autopilots that will indeed support turning with Alt Hold engaged.I used to fly night circling approaches in the StarLizard into "black hole" locations like Patrick AFB using the turn controller and the altitude hold engaged until I was halfway around the turn and could see the runway environment. We had a 141 pack it in at Cairo West during a night circle...another place where lack of lights around the airfield make it easy to descend into the dirt.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO
The two examples are the exception not the rule though Bob. Your last example and probably quite a few others must have had some effect on AP two axis design since the current situation seems to be to err toward safety.:(

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FIRST Have your facts straight. I did not see your response in YOUR forum. That was my fault because I acc. posted it in the fsx forum so when I went to look in the fs9 forum I didn't see it there. I almost allways come to AVSIM forums to get an ansewer on question no matter whos product it is because I always get quick responses from people who ACTUALLY use the product. And I never get a "No stupiud, it dosen't work that way" response here. Sounds like you need to go back to your fourm. We can figure things out here. And yes I CAN go to any fourm and state my opinion on a product THAT I BOUGHT (Eaglesoft might want to remember who pays the salaries) any time I like or until Tom or someone here ask me not to in which case I will respect his and AVSIM's wishes.
Please get your own facts straight before telling others to do so.We tried to assist in our forums and it's now obvious that we cannot please you.State your opinion all you like but please remeber that there are a number of folks whose positive experience in life and all things FS exceed your negative opinion.Just a note to let you know that Eaglesoft knows exactly who butters our bread and frankly it is not those who purchase for a few hours and return for a refund.:(
HelloSince when have guys started to get so sensitive.JC we will all be wearing skirts at this rate, The OP expected a default AP, Ed coded a true to life autopilot which did not meet those expectations and pointed that out to the OP.To me it goes like thisI want to simulate a specific aircraft.I research that aircraft, I then research which development team has taken the trouble to simulate that aircraft.If that developers scope of simulation matches my expectations based on what I have researched about that aircraft I get my CC out.In my opinion the OP bit off more than he could chew, and there are lighter addons that he may enjoy.
MD I just had to laugh at the skirt remark...Big%20Grin.gif Simmers can be overly sensitive at times...

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The two examples are the exception not the rule though Bob. Your last example and probably quite a few others must have had some effect on AP two axis design since the current situation seems to be to err toward safety.:(
Yep...but I thought I saw somebody say 'There no Real World™ dual-axis autopilots that will allow you to "turn" when the altitude hold is active.'The B737-200, the C-141B, the C-5A, various versions of the C-130...there are a fair number of split-axis autopilots.In the example I gave, the crew was hand-flying the approach. Use of the split-axis autopilot capability was a technique developed in the aftermath to improve the safety of those operations.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

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Yep...but I thought I saw somebody say 'There no Real World™ dual-axis autopilots that will allow you to "turn" when the altitude hold is active.'The B737-200, the C-141B, the C-5A, various versions of the C-130...there are a fair number of split-axis autopilots.In the example I gave, the crew was hand-flying the approach. Use of the split-axis autopilot capability was a technique developed in the aftermath to improve the safety of those operations.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO
There are a ton of autopilots out there... you're pointing out exceptions, which is fine... but let's be honest, they are exceptions and not the rule.

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Uh...gotta disagree here. The Sperry SP-77 in the B737-200, and the Collins A/P on the C-141B are both examples of split-axis autopilots that will indeed support turning with Alt Hold engaged.I used to fly night circling approaches in the StarLizard into "black hole" locations like Patrick AFB using the turn controller and the altitude hold engaged until I was halfway around the turn and could see the runway environment. We had a 141 pack it in at Cairo West during a night circle...another place where lack of lights around the airfield make it easy to descend into the dirt.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO
More than one airliner has proven just how easy it is to descend into the dirt at Cairo...DJ

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"There is nothing wrong with the aircraft's autopilot. There is something wrong with your expectations".A somewhat more tactful reply would not have ruffled feathers. You blew it and you should apologize; then you might just recoup the future sales you lost. Mine included.Bob
Perhaps you are correct, perhaps not. It's a judgement call. Remarks from you such as "You blew it and you should apologize, then you might just recoup the future sales you lost. Mine included" are hypocritical.Did your Mom ever tell you the story about Pot meet Kettle?Now would you like to school us all some more on "tactfullness":(
Yep...but I thought I saw somebody say 'There no Real World™ dual-axis autopilots that will allow you to "turn" when the altitude hold is active.'The B737-200, the C-141B, the C-5A, various versions of the C-130...there are a fair number of split-axis autopilots.In the example I gave, the crew was hand-flying the approach. Use of the split-axis autopilot capability was a technique developed in the aftermath to improve the safety of those operations.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO
Understood Bob. That's what Ed gets for making blanket statements.Big%20Grin.gif

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Uh...gotta disagree here. The Sperry SP-77 in the B737-200, and the Collins A/P on the C-141B are both examples of split-axis autopilots that will indeed support turning with Alt Hold engaged.I used to fly night circling approaches in the StarLizard into "black hole" locations like Patrick AFB using the turn controller and the altitude hold engaged until I was halfway around the turn and could see the runway environment. We had a 141 pack it in at Cairo West during a night circle...another place where lack of lights around the airfield make it easy to descend into the dirt.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO
now that you mention it, a lot of the old hawker 6/7/800s, gulfstream I59/II-III (i think?), 727s, DC-8s/9s had a similar system (where u engage the aileron and elevator servos separately) as well .....on some you can turn with a knob normally on the autopilot panel on the centre pedestal...but while the above initial reply was blunt....it wasn't really tactless...all it says is....you buy realistic addon, expect realistic behavior, and always Read The *Friendly* Manual.....--xavier/pict

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Here's the original post in the Eaglesoft forums:Here's my original reply in the Eaglesoft forums:The OP states (incorrectly) there's something wrong with the autopilot... States (incorrectly) it should do something it shouldn't... States (incorrectly) that they saw nothing in the Eaglesoft forums regarding this exact issue.Clearly the OP's expectations are that the autopilot should function exactly like the default FS autopilot (which doesn't match any real world autopilot). As I stated, there's something wrong with the OP's expectations. Since when has being honest in one's reply translated to tactless? Do you prefer someone lie to you?
YOU NEED A VACATIONLook at my quote at the top. IT says "Is it not possable............." Thats sounds like someone asking a question. I won't ask another one because you have lost a customer.

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Please get your own facts straight before telling others to do so.We tried to assist in our forums and it's now obvious that we cannot please you.State your opinion all you like but please remeber that there are a number of folks whose positive experience in life and all things FS exceed your negative opinion.Just a note to let you know that Eaglesoft knows exactly who butters our bread and frankly it is not those who purchase for a few hours and return for a refund.:Nerd:MD I just had to laugh at the skirt remark...Big%20Grin.gif Simmers can be overly sensitive at times...
What is wrong with you people over at Eaglesoft. Please show me a post of mine that states that you designed this aircraft wrong or don't know what your doing. I did not happen to know that this autopilot could not turn with the Hdg button engaged. If you read my post on the Eaglesoft board you will see it that it asked a question on weather the AP could or could not. It was a one line question. Never did I even imply that it should be able to. My problem is not with the ac. It's with the attitude. And regarding your coment on people returning your product , I never have refunded a product and have no intentions of doing so. Sorry I asked a question on the autopilot operation. I won't do it again. Edited : And so you know , I own Every Corporate Jet Eaglesoft has made for fs2004 and have never had a complaint and still dont (With the plane)

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YOU NEED A VACATIONLook at my quote at the top. IT says "Is it not possable............." Thats sounds like someone asking a question. I won't ask another one because you have lost a customer.
Correct. We do need a vacation but disregarding a clear, concise answer and running off to another forum without resolving an issue is rather disengenuous don't you think?

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YOU NEED A VACATIONLook at my quote at the top. IT says "Is it not possable............." Thats sounds like someone asking a question. I won't ask another one because you have lost a customer.
Here's your post at the top:
Anybody else having autopilot problems on this plane. When I turnon autopilot (even with Nothing selected on the mcp) I have No turning control. I should be able to turn the plane with only Alt hold turned on for the autopilot. Something I need to check? I've looked at Eaglesoft fourm and didn't see anything. Thanks for any help
"Is it not possible" isn't anywhere in your post. Your first sentence asks if anyone else has autopilot problems with the aircraft, which implies the autopilot is flawed. Your second sentence shows you didn't read the documentation that explains how the autopilot functions. Your third sentence shows you are looking to see default FS autopilot behavior. Then you want someone to tell you how to make it behave that way."Is it not possible" is what you asked in the Eaglesoft forums, and you were given a short but polite reply there. Your post here is a different issue.

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