Your kidding right? When I purchase a complex add-on, I don't study every intricate detail on say a 767 before purchasing, I chose an aircraft im interested even if knowing nothing about said aircraft, do a light research on it, a few avail reviews on it then purchase, I then start to study and learn it, I also read the manual as I go, and heck even after reading the manual I still sometimes have to come here and look for help as some things people do miss while reading the manual, just as it was possible with the th OP.Customer relations are a huge part of this hobby!!!!!!!!!!

Yes it is. I bought the VERY FIRST msfs (wow, was it ugly) when it came out and have bought every one since. During that time spent thousands on addon software and hardware (goflight, ect). Have seen many,many add-on companies go by the way side. To make the record very clear I've always thought Eaglesoft has made a very good product or I wouldn't keep buying them, as I've said I have them all. But customer relations is a big part. As far as studying goes, i've spent 90% of my time reading, searching the web and ALL Flight Sim forums vs actually flying this plane as I've done with the pmdg 737 and all the others I've bought. At the risk of starting another argument (Which pls don't, just a personnel viewpoint) a 6 page manual for something like the fms is rather light. I find out things by coming to these forums as we all do and I will keep doing so. Sorry if it hurts anybody's feelings. Not running your product down or saying you didn't do it right. Just trying to find out things I don't know. As far as my comment on the AP, The closest thing I have to this complexity is the PMDG 737 which will allow you to turn. Didn't know that Cessna's AP does not allow that. Not in the Airline business. We all know that you can take a piece of software such as this, put it on ten computers and get ten completely different problems in each setup. That's what I was checking on, and to see if I was doing something wrong. Did not mean to insult anyone at Eaglesoft. Happy Holidays. Going flying now

The FMS is too complex to provide an adequate manual for. The real manual is absolutely huge.Yes, I know the FMS documentation is leaving most wanting. Sorry, I just don't have time to write the 'War and Peace' version of FMS documentation.

Yes it is. I bought the VERY FIRST msfs (wow, was it ugly) when it came out and have bought every one since. During that time spent thousands on addon software and hardware (goflight, ect). Have seen many,many add-on companies go by the way side. To make the record very clear I've always thought Eaglesoft has made a very good product or I wouldn't keep buying them, as I've said I have them all. But customer relations is a big part. As far as studying goes, i've spent 90% of my time reading, searching the web and ALL Flight Sim forums vs actually flying this plane as I've done with the pmdg 737 and all the others I've bought. At the risk of starting another argument (Which pls don't, just a personnel viewpoint) a 6 page manual for something like the fms is rather light. I find out things by coming to these forums as we all do and I will keep doing so. Sorry if it hurts anybody's feelings. Not running your product down or saying you didn't do it right. Just trying to find out things I don't know. As far as my comment on the AP, The closest thing I have to this complexity is the PMDG 737 which will allow you to turn. Didn't know that Cessna's AP does not allow that. Not in the Airline business. We all know that you can take a piece of software such as this, put it on ten computers and get ten completely different problems in each setup. That's what I was checking on, and to see if I was doing something wrong. Did not mean to insult anyone at Eaglesoft. Happy Holidays. Going flying now

the 737 will turn because of CWS (control wheel steering).....however, the c750 does not have CWS as a feature on its AP.....at least not standard (i think i read somewhere its an option given its a similar autopilot setup to the one on Dash 8's/Hawker 800s (Honeywell))the whole issue came about not just from what you said, but rather how you said it....by saying "I should be able to turn the plane with only Alt hold turned on for the autopilot" you're suggesting you apparently know how the real airplane's autopilot functions, and that the autopilot behavior in the Esdg's c750 is inaccurate....i suggest you take a thorough read through of the manual again in the section regarding the autopilot's operation, just because the autopilot behaves one way in one aircraft, it doesn't mean its the same in another aircraft (hence the need for different type ratings, training, etc)

I just wanted to say here that I too have decided to stay clear of this business - for a number of reasons. The main one being the terrible attitudes which most know about.Here's what really gets me...For one, this manual thing. I posted over there in past about the lack of documentation after I had been having some trouble grasping the procedures. "Sorry, no...."I have no intentions"..."don't have the time". You'll never see these posts of mine over there since they were promptly deleted. You guys state how "real" it FMS is and how much detail and accuracy the aircraft has. But you are leaving out a critical element - the completed manual. If you don't want to create a more in-depth manual, what about just focusing in detail on these elements that everyone has the most issues with. You guys are certainly charging premium prices for your aircraft on par with other companies who create MASSIVE, detailed manuals to go along with their products.What about the fact that some folks never even get a reply from your forums, like me, who posted an issue about excessive memory usage about 6 months ago. "WarpD" was looking into it - guess he figured I could shove it. It's pretty safe to assume that given all his other replies to my posts in the past. I'm not saying the Citation is a bad plane. It's definitely lacking if you're charging what you are for it. No failure modes, small manual, terrible customer service. You guys cannot delete my posts over here - and I WILL be spreading the word in other forums when posts like this pop up.If you guys want to state that it's as real as it gets and just like the real deal, then, by all means, why don't you go all the way with it? You can't just create the thing, throw it out there and tell everyone to just figure it out, then rip them a new A-hole when they come to you for help. Are we all supposed to be experts with the aircraft we purchase? Can't we buy something to learn something new?You may have found others to "butter your bread" over there, but I've learned my lesson. No matter what the situation with the airplane, I won't support anyone with an attitude like yours.RobertRobert

I just wanted to say here that I too have decided to stay clear of this business - for a number of reasons. The main one being the terrible attitudes which most know about.Here's what really gets me...For one, this manual thing. I posted over there in past about the lack of documentation after I had been having some trouble grasping the procedures. "Sorry, no...."I have no intentions"..."don't have the time". You'll never see these posts of mine over there since they were promptly deleted. You guys state how "real" it FMS is and how much detail and accuracy the aircraft has. But you are leaving out a critical element - the completed manual. If you don't want to create a more in-depth manual, what about just focusing in detail on these elements that everyone has the most issues with. You guys are certainly charging premium prices for your aircraft on par with other companies who create MASSIVE, detailed manuals to go along with their products.What about the fact that some folks never even get a reply from your forums, like me, who posted an issue about excessive memory usage about 6 months ago. "WarpD" was looking into it - guess he figured I could shove it. It's pretty safe to assume that given all his other replies to my posts in the past. I'm not saying the Citation is a bad plane. It's definitely lacking if you're charging what you are for it. No failure modes, small manual, terrible customer service. You guys cannot delete my posts over here - and I WILL be spreading the word in other forums when posts like this pop up.If you guys want to state that it's as real as it gets and just like the real deal, then, by all means, why don't you go all the way with it? You can't just create the thing, throw it out there and tell everyone to just figure it out, then rip them a new A-hole when they come to you for help. Are we all supposed to be experts with the aircraft we purchase? Can't we buy something to learn something new?You may have found others to "butter your bread" over there, but I've learned my lesson. No matter what the situation with the airplane, I won't support anyone with an attitude like yours.RobertRobert

Why people feel that they must announce to the community that they are boycotting dev ABC over whatever issues they have with ABC still baffles me after all these years. Announcing that they intend to go all over the net "spreading the word" when posts pop up seems a bit over the top but you are correct, we can't stop you, nor shall we try.One thing we've learned is that some will never be satisfied, no matter what we provide in the way of goods or services and that some are all too willing to go on a crusade.Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Yes it is. I bought the VERY FIRST msfs (wow, was it ugly) when it came out and have bought every one since. During that time spent thousands on addon software and hardware (goflight, ect). Have seen many,many add-on companies go by the way side. To make the record very clear I've always thought Eaglesoft has made a very good product or I wouldn't keep buying them, as I've said I have them all. But customer relations is a big part. As far as studying goes, i've spent 90% of my time reading, searching the web and ALL Flight Sim forums vs actually flying this plane as I've done with the pmdg 737 and all the others I've bought. At the risk of starting another argument (Which pls don't, just a personnel viewpoint) a 6 page manual for something like the fms is rather light. I find out things by coming to these forums as we all do and I will keep doing so. Sorry if it hurts anybody's feelings. Not running your product down or saying you didn't do it right. Just trying to find out things I don't know. As far as my comment on the AP, The closest thing I have to this complexity is the PMDG 737 which will allow you to turn. Didn't know that Cessna's AP does not allow that. Not in the Airline business. We all know that you can take a piece of software such as this, put it on ten computers and get ten completely different problems in each setup. That's what I was checking on, and to see if I was doing something wrong. Did not mean to insult anyone at Eaglesoft. Happy Holidays. Going flying now

No insult intended here either. I think the AP and CWS has already been covered. Good point on documentation. We may revisit that when schedules lighten a little.Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

The FMS is too complex to provide an adequate manual for. The real manual is absolutely huge.Yes, I know the FMS documentation is leaving most wanting. Sorry, I just don't have time to write the 'War and Peace' version of FMS documentation.

Completly Understood. If you sat a 200 page manual in front me I look at you like you had lost your mind :(

Yup. I didn't leave out any sides.

And i would just like to add that I wasnt pointing directly at just developers, Customers also can get pretty intense, we are all human beings and all have bad days like it or not(again both developpers and customers) and lets face it, without talented people like yourself our hobby would be pretty bland.P.S I myself wouldn't go as far as saying Im boycotting your business over the response that was made to the OP, however it was a little stern(But that is the problem with message boards, there are no visible emotion to be seen other than what is written), the response definetly is not a showstopper for me on your product. I just felt I had to say that.

And i would just like to add that I wasnt pointing directly at just developers, Customers also can get pretty intense, we are all human beings and all have bad days like it or not(again both developpers and customers) and lets face it, without talented people like yourself our hobby would be pretty bland.P.S I myself wouldn't go as far as saying Im boycotting your business over the response that was made to the OP, however it was a little stern(But that is the problem with message boards, there are no visible emotion to be seen other than what is written), the response definetly is not a showstopper for me on your product. I just felt I had to say that.

Thanks for posting. Folks will read into board postings whatever they choose. All manner of imaginings of tone and intent can and do occur.Accusations and attitudes really shouldn't happen but we do all live in an imperfect world and none of us are exempt from poor communications at times.It's unfortunate but hopefully all of us can improve and mature to the point that these episodes will be fewer.:( Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all to whom that applies.

Completly Understood. If you sat a 200 page manual in front me I look at you like you had lost your mind :(

I've seen it and asked the same question.:(

Uh...gotta disagree here. The Sperry SP-77 in the B737-200, and the Collins A/P on the C-141B are both examples of split-axis autopilots that will indeed support turning with Alt Hold engaged.

Thanks, Bob. I've edited my original post to make what I thought I'd implied (current APs) more clear. I've also added the qualifier "...of which I'm aware."Note also I specified dual-axis APs, not split-axis APs. I am of couse aware of those (ancient) autopilots that featured a manual "turn knob," but the original question was about the ability to use the yoke for turning while altitude hold was engaged.More to the point though is that altitude hold itself is typically inhibited unless one of the lateral nav modes is engaged, meaning that absent some form of CWS, disengaging any lateral mode will simultaneously kick out the altitude hold mode as well... :(

"Thanks for posting. Folks will read into board postings whatever they choose. All manner of imaginings of tone and intent can and do occur.Accusations and attitudes really shouldn't happen but we do all live in an imperfect world and none of us are exempt from poor communications at times.It's unfortunate but hopefully all of us can improve and mature to the point that these episodes will be fewer.":( Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all to whom that applies. Stated very well. Happy Holidays all

OK, Well after finally installing the Citation (Had to much going on) and stopping myself from wanting to be a FMS expert (I'll Read and learn that later) I took the Citation up for a local flight using the old vor Nav1 system. Have to say this AC is a great fly by hand AC. Very smooth, NO jumping around when adjusting Trim (Like the B-200 King Air, which I still love). Setup for an ILS, but had alot of problems (THink I just set it up wrong) Wasn't out far enough. Only thing I have to get used to is the Power. Trying to hold back the Airspeed under 250 (Never realised how dependent I got on Auto throttles) When flying by hand it's like the plane is saying (You want me to fly at WHAT speed) So far love it. Just have to keep practicing and learning. Really wish someone would make a Practice flight Tutorial. That would help.

OK, Well after finally installing the Citation (Had to much going on) and stopping myself from wanting to be a FMS expert (I'll Read and learn that later) I took the Citation up for a local flight using the old vor Nav1 system. Have to say this AC is a great fly by hand AC. Very smooth, NO jumping around when adjusting Trim (Like the B-200 King Air, which I still love). Setup for an ILS, but had alot of problems (THink I just set it up wrong) Wasn't out far enough. Only thing I have to get used to is the Power. Trying to hold back the Airspeed under 250 (Never realised how dependent I got on Auto throttles) When flying by hand it's like the plane is saying (You want me to fly at WHAT speed) So far love it. Just have to keep practicing and learning. Really wish someone would make a Practice flight Tutorial. That would help.

Much to be discovered even on hand flying. Read, read, read and then some more. Check our Videos on You Tube.Take a look at the slats, the spoilers, the stick shaker at slow speed. All kinds of features to be aware of. This ain't no default type aircraft.:(

Much to be discovered even on hand flying. Read, read, read and then some more. Check our Videos on You Tube.Take a look at the slats, the spoilers, the stick shaker at slow speed. All kinds of features to be aware of. This ain't no default type aircraft.:(

Hello ronNow that Lrops has seemingly gone out of business would Eaglesoft not consider acquiring the rights to sell their Flight manual for the ES CX.I found it helpful with regard to the FMC and it is a pity other new users of the CX can no longer purchase this guide.

Hello ronNow that Lrops has seemingly gone out of business would Eaglesoft not consider acquiring the rights to sell their Flight manual for the ES CX.I found it helpful with regard to the FMC and it is a pity other new users of the CX can no longer purchase this guide.

Hmm, wasn't aware that had taken place...busy on the CJ1+ 2.0. I'll dig around and see what's possible after the Holidays. Feel free to contact me at our forum or support email.