Anyone here refuse to fly online? If so, why?

[Kangaby 14]

A new Network with completely new software would be a way get out from under this restriction.

Reviewed in this month's Computer Pilot magazine: http://pilotedge.net/page/home

[TedG 1]

If it wasn't such a Teen arcade center I may use it more. Adult only network.

Which "it" are you describing as a teen arcade? As far as I am aware foolish flyers both young and old get a swift kick off either network.As far as VATSIM goes I find all regardless of age quite determined to be as professional and realistic as possible with the volunteer controllers going out of their way to help new folks as well. I remember one of my first VATSIM flights not so long ago getting utterly lost on the taxiways around Gatwick and eventually getting on the right track thanks to the patience and help of the young-sounding and yet all-pro GND controller :(..Personally I find the "teen arcade" bit a myth perhaps reserved for other online games or connecting FSX via Gamespy?Side note-for those who have mentioned either inability/shyness in using voice comms full-on text chat is supported as is pilot text/recieve voice and there are automated shortcuts for doing just that within the software. And again-while one can lead a horse to water one cannot shove its head into the river if it don't wanna go. At the very least perhaps this thread might convince a couple of folks to give online flying a shot while clearing up a few misconceptions.

[JBZ 13]

I can pose pros and cons on both sides of the isle. I used to fly and control on VATSIM exclusively, I would never fly offline. Then I started working for the FAA and when you've moved traffic all day long, the last thing you want to do is come home and move traffic lol. Then I gradually moved away from flying online using RC and UT2/MyTrafficX...it brings me what I desire, the realism of flying in and out of busy airports. I also agree that VATSIM has become so proceduralized that it is driving some away. The worst is on the ATC side of things. You get the "know-it-alls" who haven't worked live traffic a day in there life yelling and screaming at the top of their lugs because someone who is new to simming can't get it right. I don't know how many of you remember eSkyworld, but that's where I started out. Even though they used FSNavigator for their radar and one controller worked all positions, it was still a great community and I wish it still existed.

[polk2 15]

Probably will never happen, to many big heads But I would sign one in a second, dividing the community only hurts it.

absolutely, the number of status medals that everone seems to have in this "hobby" is really quite funny, the endless numbers of managers/directors/chief pilots/administrators/directors/CEO'S/supervisors/founders/board of govenors/regional directors/ vat this vat that/, supervisors/instructors/controller ranks and then all the real world ranks that are worn as badges of meritthe idea that everyone walks into a online ATC one world flight sim heaven hand in hand for the greater good of is just never going to happenbig heads is about right, many years have passed since the split and empires have been built and they are going to stayits a shame becasue a quick check on dolomynum of both ivao and vatsim covergae really spells out the need for a merger

[Jack_C 1]

I think if these two organzizations really cared about improvng the sim and online community they would relieve their positions and find replacements who aren't biased toward either VATSIM or IVAO. . The replacements would merge the two organizations and we would have a much better online experience. As it stands right now, I think the people that are running the two communities are just seeing it as a competition rather than seeing what the potential could be. Kinda selfish really.

[polk2 15]

the reasons vatsim give for not merging are something along the lines of non compatibilty between the 2 oraganisations, which reading between the lines means vatsim feel they are far superior to ivao and arent going to reduce their standards to suit ivao. whilst at the same time urgiing vatsim memebrs not to get too realistic and reduce the demands on pilots and controllers by serious vatsimers.it doen't make sense and empire building and selfishness are the main reasons for not merging while ignoring the fact that ordinary members would merge in an instant.i

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

Hi,First off, I do not believe its true and second I know it will never happen. If users would merge in an instant as you say, then why not boycott one of these online providers so it becomes a ghost town and force the merger?.Like I said, I know a merger will never happen. 1. There are too many people in a position of power that will refuse to relinquish it.2. You will never be able to organize such a boycott.

ignoring the fact that ordinary members would merge in an instant.i

[Jack_C 1]

Hi,First off I do not believe its true and second I know it will never happen. If users would merge in an instant as you say, then why not boycott one of these online providers so it becomes a ghost town and force the merger?.Like I said, I know a merger will never happen. 1. There are too many people in a position of power that will refuse to relinquish it.2. You will never be able to organize such a boycott.

I agree with your two points Mike. Especially the first one. These guys have to realize when to move on Because they havent made any significant contributions to the organization for quite some time. And thats a big part of this flight simming is constant improvements. Step aside and let new staff with fresh, innovative ideas step in. Sorry that sounds harsh but they tend to run the organization like a business and thats just business. No new ideas = stagnant growth.

[slait 169]

1. There are too many people in a position of power that will refuse to relinquish it.

Position of power? Seriously? We're not talking about government here, we're talking about pretend controllers controlling pretend planes. Not sure the word "Power" can effectively be used here without chuckling.

[JSkorna 137]

Those that run those organizations would beg to differ.

[ErnieAlston 33]

Position of power? Seriously? We're not talking about government here, we're talking about pretend controllers controlling pretend planes. Not sure the word "Power" can effectively be used here without chuckling.

If you've ever been involved in the politics of either organization, you'd know there's a certain amount of truthto that 'Power' statement.Regarda.ernie.

[Chock 17,769]

You'd be surprised how many 'little hitlers' there are out there. Give some people a badge and they will go power mad (see traffic wardens in the UK for further reference).Al

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

Hi,Do you really believe that positions of power "ONLY EXISTS" within the government?, talk about a chuckle. For the record, I'm not talking about controllers and pilots, I'm talking about the individuals that run these organizations. They are in positions of power because they have the ability to control and influence organizational policy as well as day-to-day operations amongst other things.

Position of power? Seriously? We're not talking about government here, we're talking about pretend controllers controlling pretend planes. Not sure the word "Power" can effectively be used here without chuckling.

[ryanbatc 12,858]

Position of power? Seriously? We're not talking about government here, we're talking about pretend controllers controlling pretend planes. Not sure the word "Power" can effectively be used here without chuckling.

There are a few real ones and many real pilots that work it :) I'm sure he's talking about management though.

The only thing really different are the local policies and procedures, and in the real worldthose procedures are designed for a much larger level of traffic than is seen on VATSIM on a normal day.

This I can agree with. IRL, we have policies and standards to be efficient as possible and because there is much more traffic compared to vatsim. They'll do this on vatsim for realism but sometimes it's completely overkill. When I control on vatsim (not as much as I'd like to) I run it just like I do IRL if we're slow. Initial high climb on everyone, and on course as soon as possible. I expect this at major facilities if there's not much traffic (on vatsim), but rarely get it. I am annoyed with those policies but people want to make it real. I say if you want to make it real make it efficient - that's the game plan of ATC, and safe of course :)

[polk2 15]

Hi,First off, I do not believe its true and second I know it will never happen. If users would merge in an instant as you say, then why not boycott one of these online providers so it becomes a ghost town and force the merger?.Like I said, I know a merger will never happen. 1. There are too many people in a position of power that will refuse to relinquish it.2. You will never be able to organize such a boycott.

im not organizing a boycott, and i agree a merger isnt going to happen, but simmers could well vote with their feet if one organisation gets a pilot/ATC client with ms flight or xplane10 and those sims get very popular and the other is just left with fsx/fs9.lets face the facts the vast majority of simmers are pilots and they want ATC coverage with very little reasons why they should support an empty skies policy because there are 2 organisations in what is a small niche market anyway, one member one vote would leave an overhwelming vote for a merger especially if it was for a trial period to begin with....merge in an instant absolutely, maybe avsim could well start the ball rolling and raise the topic of why such a small niche market of online simmers is chopped in two with a 50-50 split roughly that does no good for simmers but gives ego's a boost instead