Great Post :( :(

This is very interesting, however I'd be concerned if changes to the 'feel' of the aircraft were made at the expense of the accuracy of performance against Boeing's data. Obviously the 'feel' of an addon is a subjective matter, so I'd expect that the feel of the PMDG NGX is accurate at the same time as being faithful to the numbers.Justin J

I wonder if its possible to include an option to have the aircraft simulate actual boeing specs and then perhaps an option to have the aircraft simulate 'real world feels'?

That's not what happened, don't worry - we worked around an issue with FSX's ground effect modelling, that's all. The "numbers" were right, but FSX's limitations were modifying how it reacted physics-wise basically. The plane flies realistically now - we're trusting our pilot advisors who know the plane better than anyone. There are several pilots on our team with over a decade's worth of experience in the NG *and* with MSFS.I want to address something I noticed a user out in the Avsim general FSX forum saying too regarding testers. He made comments to the effect that having real pilots and other airline crew on the test team doesn't mean anything about the realism of the product and that it's merely something to say in marketing material. That could not be any further from the truth with this product. Our real world NG crew members on the team have filed hundreds of bug reports based on actually testing things in the real airplanes and simulators and they've spent countless hours explaining things to the programmers. They are an enormous asset for us and this product absolutely would not be what it is without their very considerable input

Amazing to hear that

George,I really like this kind of posts. So if you don't mind writing this inside information, pIease don't hesitate and I'd love to read them.Regards,Eric

thats great to hear gents...but honestly...c'mon....90% of us (I took that number out of my butt) have never been in a 737 cockpit and have never (and will never) fly a RL Boeing 737 NG. Whilst its commendable that you guys go to the nth degree, you have to draw the line somewhere and actually get this product out to the market. You may have already lost customers with the iFly 737 NGX - I know, I've tried it and its EXCELLENT and, to be honest, I don't really care about whether all 3500 rivets have been modelled because frankly, I prefer to spend my time in t/off, climb, approach and landing so for me, its all about a nice VC, nice visual model, fully working FMC, PFD, etc. So yes, whilst I'm playing devils advocate here, I do have a point. Get it finished and out to the market ASAP. you're not earning any $$$ whilst its still in development. I sincerely hope you don't have issues like what 1C have had with the release of IL2 Cliffs of Dover - 5 year development (or something) and its released still with bugs and is a major letdown for players.

This is very interesting, however I'd be concerned if changes to the 'feel' of the aircraft were made at the expense of the accuracy of performance against Boeing's data. Obviously the 'feel' of an addon is a subjective matter, so I'd expect that the feel of the PMDG NGX is accurate at the same time as being faithful to the numbers.Justin J

Keep in mind also that data from the manufacture is NOT what the aircraft actually does with you at the controls. Now I must admit that this could be different with Boeing but I doubt it. The data provided by manufactures was gathered with a brand new aircraft with brand new engines with a professional pilot with thousands if not tens of thousands of hours of experience and usually on a beautiful day. This means that the data is what the aircraft will do in the best of circumstances. It's call making the aircraft look it's best so airlines will buy it. Mind you 95% of the airlines never need it to perform to it's absolute potential anyway. They just need it to carry as many people as possible from point A to point B without killing them and if it doesn't cost too much, comfortably.Then you take a service aircraft with a couple thousand hours on the airframe and a pilot who would never dream of putting the aircraft to it's limits...okay, maybe only dream about it...and you have what happens on a daily basis. This is what PMDG is putting in. That doesn't mean it won't do the crazy stuff too, it's just that what the numbers say and what your hands are "feeling" when you pull back on the wheel are 2 very different things.

This is very interesting, however I'd be concerned if changes to the 'feel' of the aircraft were made at the expense of the accuracy of performance against Boeing's data. Obviously the 'feel' of an addon is a subjective matter, so I'd expect that the feel of the PMDG NGX is accurate at the same time as being faithful to the numbers.Justin J

Justin-I think you misunderstood George's post entirely- so let me rephrase it differently: The NGX was NOT performing like the airplane during rotation while still in ground effect due to limitations in FSX, so we used some of our typical PMDG ingenuity to ensure that it does...So, please don't worry... we do actually know what we are doing. :(

My wife is going to hate when this is released !!!

Thanks for the insight view George, loved to read them - If you have more, please share them :(

thats great to hear gents...but honestly...c'mon....90% of us (I took that number out of my butt) have never been in a 737 cockpit and have never (and will never) fly a RL Boeing 737 NG. Whilst its commendable that you guys go to the nth degree, you have to draw the line somewhere and actually get this product out to the market. You may have already lost customers with the iFly 737 NGX - I know, I've tried it and its EXCELLENT and, to be honest, I don't really care about whether all 3500 rivets have been modelled because frankly, I prefer to spend my time in t/off, climb, approach and landing so for me, its all about a nice VC, nice visual model, fully working FMC, PFD, etc. So yes, whilst I'm playing devils advocate here, I do have a point. Get it finished and out to the market ASAP. you're not earning any $$$ whilst its still in development. I sincerely hope you don't have issues like what 1C have had with the release of IL2 Cliffs of Dover - 5 year development (or something) and its released still with bugs and is a major letdown for players.

J Thomas-No worries about playing devil's advocate- but in your post you actually made my point for me. :( At PMDG we aren't interested in quickly cranking out a product that loosely approximates an airplane based on a bunch of stolen flight manual pdf's that we jacked off an internet site... because in doing so you invariably wind up giving customers an airplane that does some things well, looks nice, but doesn't fly like the airplane, doesn't act like the airplane in takeoff, climb, cruise descent and landing, and is partially functional in the PFD/ND and FMS....We prefer to get into the gritty questions of "what allows the user to suspend their disbelief and truly experience joys of flying an airplane like the 737NG?"The answer to this question will vary dramatically from user to user... Some users are focused on visual detail, so the realistic high quality cockpit with reflective lighting, fingerprints, dust, worn spots and highly accurate 3D geometry will satisfy them completely.For other users, it might be the sounds... So the fact that we've recorded hundreds upon hundreds of sounds to immerse that user in the depths of the airplane's audio environment will answer the question for them.For other users it may be the the fact that unlike any product on the market (including some of our older ones!) the PMDG 737NGX offers a real world LNAV/VNAV model that uses actual FMS and AFDS control logic to control the flight path of the airplane with flight director logic controlled independently on opposite sides of the airplane, and independently via the HUD in certain types of approach modes for actual redundancy and operation.For yet other users, it may be the plethora of equipment options that have been researched and accurately paired together so that you can match just about any airline option set in the real world and fly the airplane using that airline's procedures.And then there will be the subset of users who will answer that question by diving deep into the hundreds of possible failure scenarios in order to take reach into the personal challenge and decision making processes of managing an airplane with anything from a catastrophic hydraulic failure during an approach in low IFR conditions to a simple failure of an unimportant piece of equipment on a nice calm VFR day...But most importantly: That question will be answered for ANY simmer- whether they want to study for a type rating in the airplane, or whether they simply want to set flaps, push up the throttles and just enjoy the experience of flying the airplane around their local airport taking screenshots without having to fight the deficiencies of FSX in order to enjoy a "true flying" airplane...I've seen some uninformed posts where folks have proclaimed that we are packing too much into this product and that it will be out of reach of some simmers... PMDG got to where we are by knowing who our current customers are- knowing who are future customers are- and knowing how airplanes actually behave... So we aren't doing anything NEW here- we are simply doing it better.Oh- and on the comment regarding 1C... The whole reason we continue to hold the airplane and thoroughly test the entire product is that we FIRMLY believe we owe you a complete product that is as problem-free as we can possibly make it. After all- the day a customer purchases this product- they are giving us their hard earned money in exchange for the opportunity to see what it is like to fly the 737NG- and that is exactly what they should get. No hassles, no frustrations... no waiting for 200 patches while we try to fill in gaps between the pieces that work...That just isn't how we operate.But that's just my opinion. :( Thanks for tee'ing that one up for me, JT.

Out standing post RSR.You guys at PMDG are doing a fantastic job getting this plane ready for us. Take all the time you need to have this ready for us.Kind RegardsDamien.C

Do you mean something like those racing car games where you can select realistic or arcade options for how the car will handle? If so, this is already doable in the realism menu of FSX. Personally, I like my sliders maxed out to be a realistic as possible.

No more along the lines of having the quirks taken out of the simulation and having the plane fly by the specs....

...Oh- and on the comment regarding 1C... The whole reason we continue to hold the airplane and thoroughly test the entire product is that we FIRMLY believe we owe you a complete product that is as problem-free as we can possibly make it. After all- the day a customer purchases this product- they are giving us their hard earned money in exchange for the opportunity to see what it is like to fly the 737NG- and that is exactly what they should get. No hassles, no frustrations... no waiting for 200 patches while we try to fill in gaps between the pieces that work...That just isn't how we operate.But that's just my opinion. :( Thanks for tee'ing that one up for me, JT.

THIS right here explains why PMDG will continue receiving my hard earned money. The 747-400X was the first addon I ever bought for any game/simulator and I am glad PMDG was my first.

THIS right here explains why PMDG will continue receiving my hard earned money. The 747-400X was the first addon I ever bought for any game/simulator and I am glad PMDG was my first.

Lol that sounds wrong!

Thanks very much Captains George, Ryan and Robert!!! Excellent thread.PMDG was my first too :) With their 737. Oh the memories of my first time...The 737ngx is like the second coming.Sorry couldn't resist. :(