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Benjamin J

What do you make of Windows 8?

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Hey guys,I was browsing Ars Technica when I noticed an article about Windows 8. Apparently, it was demoed during the D9 conference. I personally don't know what to think of it. To me it looks slick, but hardly useable. Is there a reason that Microsoft always completely changes stuff without seemingly making it really better than it was before? Here's the link to the article:http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/microsoft-gives-the-first-official-look-of-windows-8-touch-interface.ars

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I´m pritty happy about my windows 7, so I don´t really care about 8.

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Hey guys,I was browsing Ars Technica when I noticed an article about Windows 8. Apparently, it was demoed during the D9 conference. I personally don't know what to think of it. To me it looks slick, but hardly useable. Is there a reason that Microsoft always completely changes stuff without seemingly making it really better than it was before? Here's the link to the article:http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/microsoft-gives-the-first-official-look-of-windows-8-touch-interface.ars
The reason is simple - MS wants to make money. Most folks use their desktops in much the same way as touchpads or touchphone (of whatever variety) interfaces. They're used to it and they like it. MS would like to provide a common look and feel for those people. Those of us who would like to use desktops as real tools are the minority and always have been... "Better" depends on who you're marketing to.DJ

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Still on XP personally, and I got bounced into that after buying a new graphics card whose drivers were only available for XP. Thing is, each iteration of Windows needs loads more memory, more drive space, and all-round more awesomeness in the hardware department in order to continue doing the same stuff you've always been doing.When I do eventually get around to upgrading the whole system I'll probably get Win7, which by then will hopefully have most teething problems fixed. With Windows, being an early adopter is not the way to go..

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The reason is simple - MS wants to make money. Most folks use their desktops in much the same way as touchpads or touchphone (of whatever variety) interfaces. They're used to it and they like it. MS would like to provide a common look and feel for those people. Those of us who would like to use desktops as real tools are the minority and always have been... "Better" depends on who you're marketing to.DJ
HelloMaking a touchpad like interface for a desktop is just a crazy idea, and when it comes to mobile devices such as tablets and smartphones, microsoft has lost that market completely before it even got started in it.Microsoft, late to the internet party and totally oblivious to mobile computing until it was too late to enter the race.

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HelloMaking a touchpad like interface for a desktop is just a crazy idea, and when it comes to mobile devices such as tablets and smartphones, microsoft has lost that market completely before it even got started in it.Microsoft, late to the internet party and totally oblivious to mobile computing until it was too late to enter the race.
Well, I tend to agree for the existing user base (especially given the price of large touchscreen monitors), but they're trying to market to folks whose main exposure is the tablet and smartphone. With regard to the mobiles you're quite right; Win CE never caught on (and was a pain to program) and by the time they got something better (and Win7 mobile is) they had lost the market. MS never could figure out the internet and still hasn't although they keep trying. It's hard to see where the money is in the net for a company like MS because they aren't really a provider and the advertising revenue for search engines is pretty distributed. That leaves the 'Cloud' concept and most of us aren't really thrilled at the concept of having all our data and apps out there.DJ

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Perhaps they market it for me, perhaps for somebody else. I'm quite sure that Microsoft being Microsoft, they want their product to appeal to a as large as possible audience, not just the people that use tablets and smartphones. I look at that new interface of Windows 8, and I simply have no idea what to think. It seems to me like they want to merge the tablet with a desktop, but do so in an extremely poor manner. Basically, you are in a tablet environment in the beginning, but as soon as you need a actual desktop, you can get that too. Why? because there are loads of programs that don't work with that new dazzling touch interface, like MS Word for example.When Apple made the iPad, it was clear that Mac OS X and iOS were going to converge. The best of both would reach out to each other and together make something new. And this is indeed happening. Mac OS 10.7 is inheriting all kinds of stuff that's standard for iOS. However, the basic Mac OS X is still there! We still get a desktop, we still get normal icons everywhere. They do not cover everything up with a a iOS style Home screen, and put an "invisible" desktop behind it that springs out if you need it, like MS is doing with Windows 8. Instead, Apple add an invisible Home screen behind the desktop, and with the click of a button you can thus get access to all the applications that are installed on your computer. I personally think that this is a much more clever way of doing it, and that's not because I'm an Apple a really excited user. MS has always had these radical approaches. They never can, it seems, "flow into" something. It's either everything or nothing. They keep putting layer on layer on layer, most of these layers being somewhat useless, it seems to me. Can't they simply be efficient for once?Oh, and have you heard that the new apps for the Windows 8 dazzling pwetty interface is going to have to be coded in Java and HTML5?Look, I've got nothing against touch screens. For as far as I'm concerned, touch screens are the future and its good to see that these companies are trying to incorporate them into the desktop PC. I simply think MS does it the wrong way, as always. But, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. This is the first time they have shown Windows 8, hopefully it will get better, and maybe the features are misunderstood and work very differently than we now think. perhaps you can get rid of that touch screen home screen stuff and get booted right into the traditional desktop. But, at these times, I'm always happy I have Mac OS X to work on, and Windows only to play on.

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MS Flight is most likely being developed for Windows 8 and using some of it's new features. I for one think the touchscreen stuff will go well with MS Flight. I would use 2 monitors, one large 42" led 1080p screen that is not a touchscreen to be used as an external view, and I would place a 24" touchscreen underneath it to be used as the cockpit panel. I see this as a very cost effective home cockpit that is easily customized.I think programing FMC's on touchscreen monitors is the way to go for the future of Flight Sim. New features means new possibilities.Of course their will be resistance from some in this FS community as their always is. For whatever reason people reluctantly move forward in this community. I remember complaints when FS5.1 moved to FS95 and ran under Windows 95....that one was a big issue for some as they prefered running FS5.1 in MSDOS with a boot disk....People were like 'No Way am I running Flight Sim in that WIndows stuff....." Well I don't see anyone using FS5.1 with an MSDOS boot disk anymore so people did eventually move on. And FS95 in Windows 95 did outperform FS5.1 anyways so that ended up being useless grumbling.....you still hear it today.I for one will take advantage of whatever Windows 8 and upcoming MS Flight has to offer, why not. Can't stay behind forever.Cheers :(

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Well as I said, I'm not against touch screens, I'm against the implementation of it in Windows 8. But, as I also said, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, since this is only the first preview of Windows 8 and perhaps it will end up being something very different. You see, it's that "home screen" sort of thing that they demoed, which seems crazy to me. On a tablet? Sure. On a desktop though... I mean, it works on a tablet because you hold the screen in your hands. On a desktop I just don't really see it working, unless you swivel the entire monitor to a more horizontal position. Well, we'll see I guess.

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Well I can only see multiple monitors and touchscreen as being a big benefit to those in the FS community who wish to take advantage of it.I also forgot to mention the other huge benefit......That being Windows 8, MS Flight all running in DX11......Need I say more. :(

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Well I can only see multiple monitors and touchscreen as being a big benefit to those in the FS community who wish to take advantage of it.I also forgot to mention the other huge benefit......That being Windows 8, MS Flight all running in DX11......Need I say more. :(
But... I'm not saying I'm against touch monitors... I'm saying I don't like the way Microsoft implements it in Windows 8, by which I mean I don't like that home screen with all the squares and stuff!

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But... I'm not saying I'm against touch monitors... I'm saying I don't like the way Microsoft implements it in Windows 8, by which I mean I don't like that home screen with all the squares and stuff!
That's cool and I agree. What I know is their will be a lot of other people developing this technology and that is the stuff that will become popular. MS has been the company that creates the OS and others are the ones who grow it from their. When all this new technology gets developed by the gaming studios there will be some pretty cool stuff coming out. Right now we are just seeing a glimps of things and that doesn't reflect what will actually come of this stuffI think Star Trek The Next Generation was the first glimpse at what touchscreen can do. Put that stuff to use and their are some really cool interfacing that can be developed.Also consider that the QWERTY keyboard is actually an antique now. It was developed in the late 1800's to be used on typewriters with typebars. The QWERTY keyboard was designed to slow down a persons typing speed to prevent the typebars on old typewriters from jamming together.Today we still use QWERTY when we could use a far more efficient layout. Consider that RSTLNE are the most common used letters and they are not conveniently placed on a QWERTY keyboard. Their is even a semicolon key ( ; ) used on home row and that is a key barely ever used.Older people will hate newer interfaces but then again it is older people who are the ones that say their 13 year old knows more about computers then they do......Older people will resist giving up the QWERTY keyboard and mouse and their 13 year old kids will think their a bunch of dinosaurs. The inevitable cycle continues...

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There's too much talk about the Windows 8 GUI and not enough about talk about the Windows 8 operating system internals. Don't get confused: The GUI is *not* the OS! (Remember W95? ;-)What we need to talk about is how much more efficient is the W8 kernel WRT W7, how are process and thread priorities handled for proper dispatch accross 4 or more CPUs, whether Flight will still need fibers or be able to rely on W8 primitives instead, etc. etc.Cheers,- jahman.

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There's too much talk about the Windows 8 GUI and not enough about talk about the Windows 8 operating system internals. Don't get confused: The GUI is *not* the OS! (Remember W95? ;-)What we need to talk about is how much more efficient is the W8 kernel WRT W7, how are process and thread priorities handled for proper dispatch accross 4 or more CPUs, whether Flight will still need fibers or be able to rely on W8 primitives instead, etc. etc.Cheers,- jahman.
No data yet and I doubt if any will be released until next Spring... I would not expect any major internal changes. IMHO, Flight isn't even worth discussing - all that has been released at this point is marketing hype with no real substance.DJ

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At this point all that is on my wish list is Windows 8 with MS Flight running in DX11 with a 42" Monitor mounted above a 24" Touchscreen. No more mouse and keyboard for me :(

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Since my OS is already running DX11 and I have zero need for an absurdly overpriced paperweight (touchscreen)... Win8 is dead on arrival.

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At this point all that is on my wish list is Windows 8 with MS Flight running in DX11 with a 42" Monitor mounted above a 24" Touchscreen. No more mouse and keyboard for me :(
Indeed. Think about it. We would be able to touch the controls on the aircraft panels. More like the real thing than fumbling for the mouse.Bob

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Since my OS is already running DX11 and I have zero need for an absurdly overpriced paperweight (touchscreen)... Win8 is dead on arrival.
OK, so you're in the camp of folks who think a new OS release is just a new GUI. Optimizations in kernel efficiency, Remote Procedure Call prioritizations etc., all for a smooth graphics rendering slide right past you.Cheers,- jahman.

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Since my OS is already running DX11 and I have zero need for an absurdly overpriced paperweight (touchscreen)... Win8 is dead on arrival.
Speak for yourself then. There have always been resistant ones in the Flight Sim Community that always get left behind due to their own stubbornness. However 2 years later when the new technologies become mainstream it is amazing how people jump on board even though they said they wouldn't. Cheers :(

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As I´ve allready said I´m pritty happy with windows 7 but a touchscreen interface would be definitely nice.

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Personally I don't want a pc operating system that looks like a phone uiSo I hope there will be a setting option for the traditional desktop.Bottom line, I'm not impressed.

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...Bottom line, I'm not impressed.
You can't be "impressed" or "not impressed": AFAIK, there's been no tech info released as to what sort of improvements are being done to the insides, e.g. that thingy they call the "kernel" and other fancy stuff.All we have at this point is "premature opinionation".Cheers,- jahman.

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I CAN be not impressed and you'll like it that way :)Who the are you anyway. Certainly no one of any consequence to me.Cheers.

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I CAN be not impressed and you'll like it that way :)Who the are you anyway. Certainly no one of any consequence to me.Cheers.
All jahman means is that there just isn't enough info on Windows Ate.By the way, do you own a smart phone, and thereby know enough about the UI to comment?Bob

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What does it matter ? I know what is efficient for me and that isn't it.Like I said, I hope there will be a setting to use the traditional desktop.If people want to use a pc in the manner shown in the demo.Have at it.

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