Throttle Quadrant 2D panel missing?

[Jannier 14]

Do people that already have throttle quadrants with a speed-brake handle need to see a 2D throttle/speed-brake? How many people would be happy if PMDG just added a trim indicator, fuel cutoff and parking brake "gauges" and put them on a simple panel? That doesn't seem like a lot of work and would mean most 2D users wouldn't need to use the VC at all.

I am totally with you on this, even just a means to get to the fuel switches, parking brake quickly and trim indicator. I don't really care or need any fancy animations.

Well, hopefully the J41 and future VC only products will show the developers the importance of including 2D panels - complete ones. I don't know how well the J41 sold, but if that 2D-less package was the be all and end all, why even include the 2D panel in the NGX? The J41 didn't get my sale, and like Gabriel said, the 777 and subsequent releases won't get my money either if they're VC only products. Its very clear I'm not alone out there. Quite honestly, I don't even have a remote interest in the 777, but in support of EV and the guaranteed technical accuracy, I would get it to toy around with if it did have a 2D panel. Look at the iFly release for FS9 - PMDG said FS9 was obsolete and that no one was using it. Well the iFly sold, and continues to sell off the walls for FS9 because the base FS platform just works. Users continue to use it for that reason, and it doesn't look half bad with the very complete list of free and payware addons available. Just because FSX is newer doesn't make it automatically better. From a technical and visual perspective, the iFly is a pretty crude package, but it is the most complete and up-to-date 737NG for FS9, and therefore sells. I'm positive the same logic applies to 2D panels. I think whatever market research they've drummed up saying otherwise is seriously flawed or fabricated, and by alienating users from either side of the visual interface fence, their sales numbers will be affected. Remember, this hobby is shrinking at an alarming rate, it's maybe a third the size it was 5 or 10 years ago. We don't know what Microsoft Flight has in store, but chances are it will be dumbed down to appeal to Live/XBox audiences and therefore not be of any real value to the general and hard-core simmer community. Interest on the whole is dwindling, and in 2011, who's rushing out to buy a 5 year old copy of flawed FSX? Why push away any of the users who are left? It's simply silly logic. We can't tell them how to run their business anymore than they can dictate what form of panel or VC interface we use to fly. All we can do is voice our concerns and hope they see the light. Again, alienating either side limits your sales ability - and if you push either customer base away in a dwindling market, what are you going to have left? Sure, catering to both sides is time consuming, but after a 3 year development, what's another few months if you'll reach that many more customers? Regards,Andrew ReynoldsDispatcher

I could not say it better... The J41 I would love to have, but never bought it.... reason VC only!Any aircraft that has a VC only option.... I will never buy.And if the 737 NGX only had a VC which it luckily does not, I would not have purchased it.

[betelgeuse 41]

If a product does not have a 2-D panel I don't buy it. Since Carenado went down the VC only route I stopped buying their planes. I could easily have been conned into buying this NGX because the sales blurb indicates that it has a 2-D panel. Goods sold should be 'as described' and this aircraft is not as described. Most potential purchasers reading that the NGX had a 2-D panel would be entitled to think that this included a throttle quadrant.

[Paul_Smith 92]

There shouldn't be the need for work arounds!I'ts not just the people with multi monitor setups that have been left out. There are plenty of us using just the one and use the 2D panel as our main cockpit view. Anyone know what PMDG's refund policy is?I couldn't find anything on their site.

If you bought the product, then you would have had to look at this page: SKU: 1861-37PMDG 737NGX BASE PACKAGE for Flight Simulator X.DOWNLOAD DELIVERY ONLY!.INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED TO INSTALL.Digitally delivered products are not refundable!

[Paul_Smith 92]

In the flight traing world we use only 2d panels and multimonitor seups.I reckon that would be a few thousand users worldwide. We have no interest in VC or any of that typical gamer, simmer stuff. Frederic. I am with you all the way !! Frederic Steiner.

In the "Flight Training World", you should not be using 'gamer' software in the first place, should you? You should also read your licence agreements and Terms of Use more carefully, since you seem to be unaware that you are prohibited from using PMDG products for training purposes!

[paulyg123 135]

I also agree: not haveing the 2D throttle is really a bad decision. I was trying to start my engines and couldn't because I forgot to turn on the fuel switches, I could see them in the 2D. I had to switch to the 3D. Also I have a dual monitor set up and use the 2nd monitor for the FMC, throttle quad and radios. With so much detail - how was this left out. Many people still fly the 2D and engine starting is easier in the 2D.

Given the clarity of the VC, I would be OK with it if I could figure out how to move laterally in the VC. Panning around and zooming just puts you at awkward angles to many things. The flaps lever is pretty much unreachable. What's the best program for moving around? (that does not include putting some contraption on your head).

Exactly my point - wel said.

[logic007 1]

Gents, Some of you need to look at earlier posts on the forum before asking the same questions that many others have.....The answers can be found through 5 mins of browsing!

[A380 0]

If you bought the product, then you would have had to look at this page: SKU: 1861-37PMDG 737NGX BASE PACKAGE for Flight Simulator X.DOWNLOAD DELIVERY ONLY!.INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED TO INSTALL. Digitally delivered products are not refundable!

Yeah, I've seen that since.I wonder where we stand on being misled.

[Paul_Smith 92]

I am sorry, but this is the most convoluted post I have read for a long time:

the 777 and subsequent releases won't get my money...Quite honestly, I don't even have a remote interest in the 777,

Still undecided then?

but in support of EV and the guaranteed technical accuracy, I would get it to toy around with if it did have a 2D panel. ...

The real plane does not have a 2D panel, so how does having one in the sim 'guarantee' technical accuracy?

PMDG said FS9 was obsolete and that no one was using it.

No they didn't. They said it was no longer commercially viable for PMDG to develop for FS9.

From a technical and visual perspective, the iFly is a pretty crude package, but it is the most complete and up-to-date 737NG for FS9, and therefore sells.

So after almost eight years, the best 737 you can get for FS9 is technically and visually crude?

I'm positive the same logic applies to 2D panels.

That they are technically and visually crude aswell? I agree.

I think whatever market research they've drummed up saying otherwise is seriously flawed or fabricated,

I would suggest being much more careful about how you describe PMDGs business model on PMDGs website. You are bordering on being seriously rude.

and by alienating users from either side of the visual interface fence,

What do you mean 'either side of the visual fence'? 2D used to be the best you could get, now you can get better.

... in 2011, who's rushing out to buy a 5 year old copy of flawed FSX?

Apparently not people who have a seven year old copy of an even more flawed and limited FS9?

Why push away any of the users who are left? It's simply silly logic.

Why should they spend development money, time and effort looking after people who think FS9 is somehow better then FSX when almost every FSX user here used to use FS9 and has moved on!

All we can do is voice our concerns and hope they see the light.

What light? PMDG have produced what is unquestioningly the finest aircraft simulation ever seen on a home PC and instead of congratulating them, you want them to cater for FS2002? I am sorry Andrew, but you really have not thought this out very well.

[FLEX1978 373]

Reading most of the posts here (exluding people with poor spec machines) I dont get what all the complaints are about, using the VC with track IR is the most natural experiance you can get. I still undock the FMC and EICAS screens to other monitors but apart from that they can throw away the rest of the 2D panel. Seriously some of you guy's need to move on, if not developing 2D panels shortens dev times I am all for it, believe me when I say 2D users are in the minority now. It also surprices me how many people still haven't clicked that they can use the pause button with TrackIR, I hear people saying it makes me feel sick the camera is always moving.. Pause the damn thing!! Throughout the whole cruise I normally have it switched off unless I actualy need to use it to look around or configure the overhead.

[Kosta 122]

Reading most of the posts here (exluding people with poor spec machines) I dont get what all the complaints are about, using the VC with track IR is the most natural experiance you can get. I still undock the FMC and EICAS screens to other monitors but apart from that they can throw away the rest of the 2D panel.

Quite agreed. As I said in another post: 2D main panel only due to performance. But I rarely open it...

[A380 0]

Reading most of the posts here (exluding people with poor spec machines) I dont get what all the complaints are about, using the VC with track IR is the most natural experiance you can get.

I've had another go at it this morning and still find that contorting your head into uncomfortable positions, trying to operate switches on the overhead panel is anything but natural.

[Kosta 122]

I've had another go at it this morning and still find that contorting your head into uncomfortable positions, trying to operate switches on the overhead panel is anything but natural.

Do you have EZCA?

[FLEX1978 373]

And this is my point, the problem is with you, not the hardware or software......... You obviously have TrackIR setup wrong. TrackIR comes with software that gives you potentially millions of ways to adjust the parameters until you find something that works for you. Perhaps you should try using it? Also, even if you are one of those people that have zero co-ordination you can completely shut off any axis and use the basic up down left right axis. I'm afraid you cant try to use the exuse that TrackIR does not behave realistically when 1000's of users worldwide including non flight simmers have absolutely no trouble using it.

[mikkel 9]

Buy a TrackIR, and you'll never look back. I guess 90% of the customers never will open a 2d panel, so be thankful that they actually included some of this legacy feature...

[A380 0]

Do you have EZCA?

No. I'll try it out. Ah. I thought it was free. Edited August 8, 2011 by A380