Throttle Quadrant 2D panel missing?

[Jannier 14]

Gents- This was a deliberate decision because of the animation and time resources that are required to model it. 2D panels are going away for all future projects- so this would be a great product to start practicing VC use!

With the mouse over issue it is not such a nice idea!My system is not too bad, flying into heavy add-on scenery with 2D panels is a breeze, I can manage easily 25+ (30 - 55fps) with average of around 35fps Using the VC I can still manage around 22- 30fps in the same scenario but we need to use the mouse all the time to interact with the VC and then the fps drop with about 10+ causing personally unlikable micro stuttering. I hope you will seriously re-think this VC only approach for future, until such time as something can replace FSX. FSX + Advance VC's = mouse over issue

[hp500 1]

I'm sure this issue will get beaten to death by both sides and my opinion won't mean squat, but some of us just plain don't like using the VC's. I've been around the FS scene since the dawn of time (that'd be FS1 or 2, but very seriously since ATP), and I personally find the VC's very unnatural to use and not intuitive on a 24 inch monitor - especially with TrackIR. I've used it time and time again, and don't like it time and time again. It's a different story in a wide open flight deck where you can lean, reach, touch and use peripheral vision, but on a flat 24 inch monitor, I find the 2D panel more user friendly. Besides my total respect for EV and his work, involvement, and dedication to realism with this product, the inclusion of the 2D panel in this release was the only reason I decided to commit to using and therefore purchasing the NGX in lieu of others (be they as accurate or not). That's significant, because I think FSX is a waste of time and resources, and should be burned at the stake! I'm sure the Jetstream's cool and wonderfully accurate, but you've alienated me by not including 2D panels, so I (and others, I'm not alone in the universe, especially old school types) can't use it, and thus lost my sale. With the future of the FS franchise not looking too great, pushing away any people that are left is not good for business in the long term. Rob, perhaps a fair compromise is to include a pop-up 2D panel similar to what you did for the start levers on the MD11, but also include the trim indicator and stabilizer trim cutout switches? I seriously doubt anyone actually sets power or flaps by dragging animated levers - be they in a VC or 2D panel, so I see zero reason to devote any time to graphically depicting and animating these. I could see an issue with the speedbrake handle, but perhaps a simple slider would, again, be a fair compromise? I've largely solved this problem by creating button assignments on my CH Throttles, and assigning one axis to the spoiler lever, but I think these items would be beneficial for those who do not have external/separate throttle quadrants at their disposal. At the very least, the trim indicator and stab cutout switches would be very useful to me. >>>Tongue-in-Cheek here, but a valid point nonetheless: Sure good 2D panels are work, but the VC is a lot more work, and if you're going to nickle and dime me by charging for every for every stretch, shrink or tank capacity boost of the 737NG line up, charge me an extra $10 for a good 2D panel too if that's what it takes :-D! I'd buy it if you did! As for time, we've been waiting for this NGX since the last AVSIM convention in 2007, another 3 months to do a proper 2D panel ain't that big of a deal :-D! Regards,Andrew ReynoldsDispatcher

[A380 0]

Gents- This was a deliberate decision because of the animation and time resources that are required to model it. 2D panels are going away for all future projects- so this would be a great product to start practicing VC use!

Hang on.I and others bought this on the basis that it had a 2D panel and therefore expected it to be functional and complete.!How can you say that the throttle quad was too time consuming to model an animate when you spent 3 years making sure every other switch, knob and lever was functional?Some of us find it very difficult and cumbersome to fly in the VC so the 2D panel is a must have.

[MatthewS 761]

The nice thing about 2D panels is that you can easily create a custom panel for use on a 2nd monitor. Is it possible to use multiple monitors with the VC cockpit? Can you create VC cockpit 'views' that can be positioned on a second monitor (just like a 2D panel)? Re the missing throttle quadrant, really all I miss is the fuel cut off switches and the trim indicator. Is it not possible to create some 2D gauges for these so that we can put them on our own custom 2D panels?

[BraytonCycle 0]

If PMDG can do other panels real well, why was it so difficult to make a 2D throttle quadrant?? They did a good job on the FS9 737NG and on the 747NGX. Might just have to get my iFly737 up and running again even though the graphics are not as good but at least they did make it as real as possible with the inclusion of the throttle quadrant. After flying the real aircraft, flying this in VC is far from realistic. The 2D panel seems more realistic. After 3 years, surely now PMDG has some free time to include the throttle quadrant in their next update.

[lonewulf 1]

3 years plus is too much time ? Your plane, my money, any company that tries to force me to to use a VC when I prefer 2D, ESPECIALLY with multi monitors, won't be getting it. Pretty dumb decision.

Although I don't want to start a flaming war about this I strongly back this opinion. Especially multi-monitor users are quite commonly using 2D-panels. A VC plus TrackIR or similar is not a REAL alternative as it's movement is completely unreal and is not really useable for wearers of corrective glasses - especially when it comes to astigmatism correction. Of course things like these are completely unimportant to the majority of the simmers. Just get a bit older and you might find out Oskar

[g_precentralis 191]

Gents- This was a deliberate decision because of the animation and time resources that are required to model it. 2D panels are going away for all future projects- so this would be a great product to start practicing VC use!

With all due respect sir, that decision is sooo wrong. There is no reason to cut out feature of addon, and aircraft without 2d panels is just... unfinished. Lj. Prodanovic

[percylee 13]

I do not know the numbers but other web sites have a large following of home cockpit builders using multi-monitors who are unable to switch to VC and will not be able to use a VC only product. Some of us can not afford the 1000 buck to buy software just designed for muilti-monitors, project magenta being the main one. Would be nice to be able to see a trim gauge and have at least key strokes for fuel cutoff. Still using product just unable to set trim and start or shut down engines. Out side of that best plane have used.percy.

[Jannier 14]

Although I don't want to start a flaming war about this I strongly back this opinion. Especially multi-monitor users are quite commonly using 2D-panels. A VC plus TrackIR or similar is not a REAL alternative as it's movement is completely unreal and is not really useable for wearers of corrective glasses - especially when it comes to astigmatism correction. Of course things like these are completely unimportant to the majority of the simmers. Just get a bit older and you might find out Oskar

I can add this also, using Track IR and a VC makes me totally nauseous within 30 - 60 seconds.And panning around the VC with the mouse and space bar is cumbersome and totally unrealistic. 2D Dinosaur..

[smleingang 0]

Totally disappointed with no 2D panels...I fly with Opencockpits MCP, EFIS, NAV, COM, ATC plug and play modules with 2D panels with triplehead2go displays set for cockpit view...also have VR Aircraft 7XX realistic throttle quadrant...I don't need 3D!!!...much more realistic in 2D....now that I know this I may have to go visit the competitor's site....bummer, waited 3 years, what a disappointment!

[PIC007 82]

When I originally posted it was 2AM and I was a bit 'short' with my reply, sorry for that. Andrew said it well above. The fact that a 2D panel was promoted in the advertizing leads us to believe there was a full set, not a glaring omission by neglecting the most important one for 2D users. With the number of people who still use 2D, for a variety of reasons, I sincerely hope Mr Randazzo will reconsider his position on this. I am certain the number additional sales from 2D users would more than offset the time and cost involved in adding a throtle quadrent for this plane.

[g_precentralis 191]

If you have problems with throttle levers, we actually do not need them at all. You can make 2d panel (extension of fire extinguishers levers panel for example) only with fuel cut off levers, trim indicator, maybe AT switches witch is positioned at throttle levers. I know its not the best, but its better than nothing :) Lj. Prodanovic.

[plodgeface 0]

Is there anyway that trim units can be displayed on one of the Display Units? Just so we know what its set at without having to hover over the trim wheel with our mouse or try and get a reading through an unclear dial/gauge. (Don't own the NGX yet so don't know how the NGX displays current trim).

[dazz 69]

If you have problems with throttle levers, we actually do not need them at all. You can make 2d panel (extension of fire extinguishers levers panel for example) only with fuel cut off levers, trim indicator, maybe AT switches witch is positioned at throttle levers. I know its not the best, but its better than nothing :) Lj. Prodanovic.

If you have problems with throttle levers, we actually do not need them at all. You can make 2d panel (extension of fire extinguishers levers panel for example) only with fuel cut off levers, trim indicator, maybe AT switches witch is positioned at throttle levers. I know its not the best, but its better than nothing :) Lj. Prodanovic.

Once the SDK is out there will be ways to do all that needs to be done... or at least I hope so. I've been trying to find a way to set the trim with Lua to no avail

[MarkW 1,493]

I personally only fly in the VC, although the transition to VC only has been a challenge but now I am very accustomed to it. Having said that, there are certain 2D panels that you really do need on a second screen (if you have one). The radio stack being one, the CDU is another. I really hope these are modeled in the 777 and Dash 8. The throttle quad is much less important in my opinion because you can access it from the VC and the pre-set shortcut views. All of this is done on the ground when stationary so really not a big deal if the frame rates drop slightly. Now, I will agree that for engine out ops, that is a different baby but lets face it a rare occurrence for 95% of simmers. Mark.