When I try to make my flight plan only with the FMC, I usually end up with the STAR that looks like a pretzel, because it is impossible to see an overall view of the flight plan in the FMC. I always find it impossible to find a STAR that creates a straightforward approach to the runway. Flight Sim Commander is a program that among many other things makes it fairly easy to do flight plans and interactively see them on a map. FSC allows to save flight plans in a number of formats, including PMDG compatible. However I have never been able to load an FSC flight plan into NGX (I see the flight plan when I press the "co" button in the FMC, but nothing is loaded when I press the "exec" button. So today I decided to create a flight plan from EDDH (Hamburg) to EDDF(Frankfurt) with FSC, then to note the names of the SID and STAR so that I could choose them in the FMC. However although I chose the same exact STAR in the FMC (GEDIG1) as I had in FSC, a number of waypoints were added in the FMC that were not in the FSC plan. These added waypoints, instead of a fairly straightfoward approach to EDDF, detoured to practically over the airport, then looped back to the first waypoint of the FSC STAR. Although FSC does not allow to remove individual waypoints of a STAR or SID, the FMC DOES allow it, so I simply removed the extra waypoints and closed the discontinuities and finally got what looked like a flyable flight plan. I don't remember seeing any explanation in the manual of what a red number means in the "legs" page, so I didn't pay attention to a red "5000A" some 20 miles from the airport (meaning that the plane had to pass that point above 5000 ft), and there was no warning that the flight plan had a problem. But when I started my approach after flying for an hour, the FMC suddenly lit a warning that said "flight plan unachievable" and the VNAV light went off. I guessed that it was because of the "5000A" a couple of slots down and that the FMC had suddenly discovered that it could not get low enough fast enough after this waypoint, so I quickly changed "5000A" to "5000B" and turned the VNAV back on. Apparently there was enough space left to lose the altitude with a bit of braking, and I managed a CATIII landing at the airport (fifty feet alongside of the runway due to inconsistent data between FSX and NGX -but that is another question). I could understand that there might be inconsistencies between the data in FSC and NGX, but why the heck would the GED1G STAR be changed to make a useless pretzel detour around the airport? And why can't I load the PDMG-compatible FSC flight plans into the FMC? Did PDMG change their flight plan format for the NGX so that they are not "PMDG-compatible"? Henri PS: And please don't tell me to buy another flight planning program. I registered for Flightaware on the recommendation of some posters here, but I was unable to find ANY flight plans there at all.

2 thoughts Henri Are you using an up to date Nav database in the PMDG and does that database agree with that used by FSC? Secondly have you checked either the PMDG or FSC STAR against the relevant chart? I have only flown a couple of flights in the 737NGX and have not seen any discrepancy between the FMC STAR and the chart. I have flown the other PMDG aircraft in FS9 and do not remember seeing any discrepancies there either. Dave

i always load my FSC plans into the ngx and it works fine. i load just the plan wotout sid´s and stars and add them on the ngx fmc with the dep/arrv page. for sure both must have the same cycles. which FSC version are you usinng? tarik

i always load my FSC plans into the ngx and it works fine. i load just the plan wotout sid´s and stars and add them on the ngx fmc with the dep/arrv page. for sure both must have the same cycles. which FSC version are you usinng? tarik

Ditto here.No probs with creating a flightplan and exporting,and my SIDs and STARs more or less match the FMC's.

Latest version of FSC, I have no idea if PMDG database is up to date, but I had no PMDG file before I bought this aircraft, so it is recent. In a flight just now I used the orientations and frequency for EDDF given by FSC (***.35) with the Capt. Sim 767, and the same problem of displaced runways occured. (In addition the plane landed a perfect CATIII autoland next to the runway, and stopped 5 feet off the ground!..- but let us leave aside Capt Sim for the moment, it seems that Frankfurt 248 has values all its own.) Having the runways displaced is not that big a deal, but being unable to load FSC routes with SIDS and STARS without getting bent all out of shape bothers me a lot more. I don't have the charts for Frankfurt, the STARTS shown on FSC should be enough. And I still have no idea of how to choose a good STAR in the FMC. Frankfurt might or might have not been modified with either Ultimate Terrain or FS Scene, I have no idea except that one of them mentions correcting FSX airports. The good news is that I am not experiencing any freezes or CTDs. Henri

Well I make my flightplans with FS Commander and it just works perfectly. I search a good flightplan on vataware.com, copy that into FSC and save it in the PMDG format and then just load that into the FMC without SID and STARs. Then in FS Commander I go the the departure airport, zoom out and then based on current weather, look for the right runway and SID. You just have to pick a SID with FS Commander that goes in the same direction you want to fly....simple as that! Same for the STAR, look at how your flightplan leads you into the airport and in FS Commander choose the correct STAR based on your direction of flight. After you know your SID put that into the FMC manually and IN flight, choose your STAR and put that also manually into the FMC. I have done this since I got FS Commander and fly complex airplane and never had a problem with it. Also the navdata from navigraph sometimes has errors in altitude and speeds....you have to check your flightplan and sometimes enter your desired flightlevels and speeds yourself. Just because you fly autopilot doesn´t mean you can just sit back and let the plane do EVERYTHING. The "Descent Path Unachieveable" message just shows that the plane needs your input to get a correct descent.

Latest version of FSC,

That is not quite the same as having the current navdata. In fact you probably don't - there is no GED1G in EDDF in the current cycle. You don't necessarily have to keep current, but it is an advantage if you have the same data in FSC as in the PMDG (that would be AIRAC cycle 1108). You can purchase an update from Navigraph. It sounds as if you loaded one of the RNAV transitions into the FMC. These take you toward the airport, away again, and back in - a sort of queuing system for airplanes (similar in principle to what you see at an amusement park). No need to do that if you are flying alone, of course.

EDDH -> EDDF AMLUH UM852 LEVBU Z113 OBATU T156 ALOSI T157 KERAX FL 270 (odd rules) Departure time: 18:00ZPlaned Arrival time: 19:00Z (no nightime restriction in EDDF at this time) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EDDH Wind: 320/5Departure RWY: 33 SID: AMLU7G Initial Climb clearance & Trans alt: 5000 Remain on Tower freq. until passing 2000ft - Then contact BREMEN radar (136.67) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EDDF Wind: 220/5 (expected) Arrival RWY: 25C ////Expect vectoring by ATC after passing KERAX in case of optimum traffic conditions.Otherwise expect transition or other plans given by ATC. STAR: - (STAR procedures only used in night time approaches [22:00-04:00] / written in the charts) Transition: KERAX 25N (due expected heavy traffic flow in EDDF) Transition Level: By ATC Holding points: KERAX: 200°r 6000ft* GED: 181°r 6000ft* (MTR: 061°r 4000ft)* *Look charts for exact informations of holding points and transition restrictions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EDDH AMLU7G AMLUH UM852 LEVBU Z113 OBATU T156 ALOSI T157 KERAX KE25N EDDF ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Seems to be a little issue here with the airway T157 or suddenly it has been removed by navdatas. T157 is not listed anymore in my FSC (newest cycle). Then just fly direct rules.- GED1G isn't listed in the charts anymore, I agree.- Better type all SIDs and STARs/transitions and airways manually in your FMC. This way you are on a safer site it's done correct (including any restrictions given by you which you pick from the charts), it's more realistic and imo more fun ;)- In general the FP export function to PMDG planes works (more or less) pretty well. Comfortable but not perfect and comes with some minor issues. I guess you will find out very soon ;) Cheers

You don't necessarily have to keep current, but it is an advantage if you have the same data in FSC as in the PMDG (that would be AIRAC cycle 1108). You can purchase an update from Navigraph.

I am thinking about getting FSC but I did wonder about this all: PMDG uses cycle 1108, FSC probably an older one and FSX has another cycle altogether, I suppose... Even if you buy cycle 1108 for FSC, doesn't FSX need an update too then...? And will the 737NGX get new cycles or something like that...? It's something I've been wondering about for quite some time. it would have been easier if all FSX-addons used the FSX-cycle...

http://www.navigraph...www/fmsdata.aspYou can get the lates ones for your flightplaner and for your addons here (it shows a list which flightplaners and addons are supported edit:you update fsx cycles through the addons (I really don't know how it works, but it works ... its not really updating fsx but the addon will do the correct thing) and yes all pmdg gets updated too ...so in a week or two we will see cycle 1109 and you will be able to update FSC and the PMDG to the latest 1109

Even if you buy cycle 1108 for FSC, doesn't FSX need an update too then...?

I use Aivlasoft EFB. It gets information about installed scenery directly from FSX itself, and uses Navigraph updates for SIDs, STARs, approaches etc, so the information that EFB displays is (almost) always correct regardless of what scenery is installed. It has been a while since I used FSC, but from memory it works the same way. The one area where you do run into occasional problems is if there have been changes to the runway layout that are not reflected in the scenery. E.g. EDDF rwy 07L/25R has been renamed 07C/25C - this confuses EFB that doesn't know to which runway it should map 07C/25C. These are relatively rare occurences, though.

I love EFB but its one of the more expensive addons for FSX. Having said that its very very nice and allows you to check your flightplan including the SID/STARS.

I've been getting this too and just wanted to ask, could a mis-matching AIRAC between FSC and the FMC cause a back-forward-over yourself STAR approach?

I've been getting this too and just wanted to ask, could a mis-matching AIRAC between FSC and the FMC cause a back-forward-over yourself STAR approach?

Well, garbage in = garbage out. Hard to be more specific without details.

Hm, I can't figure out how expensive those credits for Navigraph are... I think I will simply start using the shareware version of FS Commander and see how well it works with the 737NGX 'out of the box' even though the cycles don't match... EFB is WAY over my budget right now, also because I am only interested in getting plans I can manually enter in the FMC: I don't need all the rest...