Time for this thread to be locked going no where as the previous threads on this subject same old song over and over getting quite boring

Well for staters who asked you? If the topic keeps comin up over and over again, by diffrent people, i might add, then obviosly there is some substance to the topic in question. And it must of bored you that much, that to be occupied you had to reply.....Sorry to upset you officer

I don't think PMDG erased the previous thread. Sometimes, they just disappear. That seems to be an issue with Avsim's forums. They don't show up on search and neither in the forum listing.- strange that, most online forum use the same template...why would this 1 be any diffrent from the others that dont loose threads? And as far as the 2D panels, if you can't run a plane like the NGX in VC, then you probably don't meet the minimum requirements. If you don't, then why did you bought it?I run it fine in VC...another miss guided reply because u aint read the thread properly. If you say that you can run the VC just fine, but you don't like it, and would rather have the 2D panel then:Again, what?..never said that either! You sir should read..really.Infact read post 6 1. You are complaining that during turbulence, you can't click on anything. Read the intro, and disable head movement.2. You say that you can't see both the panel and the runway. There are 2D pop-ups, you know. Or you could use the HGS. That's why it's there for. I have a 19" screen and I can see them both very well.Yes there is 2D pop-ups, and we need those pop-ups in future products too...THE POP_UPS, NOT THE PANEL, crying out loud read!!3. You are complaining that for precision flying you need a 2D panel. I never understood what that's all about...I never said no such thing..READ post 64. You say that you don't want to buy EZCA and TrackIR to be able to look around properly. Good news: you don't need to! I don't have either of them and I can look around really well. You can press A and Shift-A to get to different views. But if you really want TrackIR, try FreeTack. You just need a cheap webcam, 4 cheap LEDs, and some beginner soldering skills.''I say''...where do i say that?, Again somthing else you've dremt up ive said :/ ...If you read the thread properly you would see i fly in VC The days of the 2D panel are over. When flying in FS9 I couldn't stand the VC. But after moving on to FSX... I can't get out of it. The one thing I'd want PMDG to do would be to tell us how to remove the 2D panel from the views cycle.The panel days , maybe, but the pop-ups, yeh, the pop-ups, not the panel, the pop-ups, i want to emphasize this, the pop-ups,.. are a long way from being done with.How simple is it, you have VC on your main monitor,and some POP-UPS on another monitor, like radio, so u can still keep your outside forward view, and still be able to change frequency without changing my view piont.I have a hat switch if i want to move around, but moving view piont to the pedistal, change frequency, and move it back to forward view is just cumbersome. I do understand where you guys are coming from with this... but, really now... Everything on the missing throttle quadrant can be assigned to a keyboard shortcut. There is no real reason why you should complain that this airplane is unflyable because of the missing panel. The only reason why you're complaining is that PMDG said there would be a 2D panel. Well... isn't there one there already? Just get over yourselves.PFFF! They did say there would be, and there is, but not all of them.When a developer states there is 2D, anyone would assum that means everything...just like it does with 99% of any payware add-on that states they have 2D...For it to stated AFTER release and after loads of people bought it was a very sneaky move.

First off, I wasn't specifically talking to you. I was talking to everyone who was complaining about the 2D panels. Stop being so egocentric. Second, about the disappearing thread, it happened to me multiple times. The only way I could get to it was via my mail notifications where the direct link was provided. It wasn't showing up on search either. If the direct link isn't working, then yes, it has been deleted. Thirdly, when PMDG said they won't include 2D panels anymore, I don't think they were talking about the 2D pop-ups as well. I think they will include them because cockpit builders still need them. And, as they have previously stated, that's why the NGX has a 2D panel.

Interestingly enough, when I researched for this very thread, the forum search output an older thread multiple times (it's probably the one you say was deleted), but it would not allow to be opened. So kind of the reversed of what you see - in my case it seemed like the search returned a deleted thread.

before this gets deleted and i get banned heres a convo with me and the main man. veeshy: Sent Yesterday, 11:58 PMhi why are my posts being deleted? Tabs: Because you're arguing about stated PMDG company policy - the 2D panel stuff is not open for debate.We're going to do what we're going to do and that's that. If it's as big a problem as the couple of vocal individuals such as yourself seem to believe it is then I guess we'll be going out of business with our 777.We're more than confident that's not the case however.Ryan Maziarz veeshy: Sent Today, 01:31 AMchill bro. never said anything about pmdg going out of bussiness. if anything bussiness on the fsx platform has grown rapidly with advances in hardware. anyway i was more to the point on pmdgs 737 not having all the panels but never stating it their product page. just like ur turboprop which i nver bought because it says its a vc oly aircraft. the ngx never mentions that a panel here or there will be missing. adding a sentence on ur product page will prevent ppl from arguing as u have made it clear what they r getting and what ur selling to them. the real customers get hurt the way things are now and the fu*k wits on piratebay r having the time of their lives. not just pmdg but there are a few other componies in software and games that r into the same boat. common sense, if u can add line about all the tiny details of simulated u could put up a sign saying partial 3d panels/reccomended to fly using vc.and also 3 years ago you guys were much more proffessional with dealing with ppl wherether they were idiots or not. nowdays too much emotion from the pmdg team. lucky u guys dont build real airplanes, a few lawsuits for lack of tranceparancy, tratment of customers, and crahsing planes lol and u guys would be done. on the other had the real boeing seem to be the ppl who kiss the asses of their customers. we dont need that but abit more then a fu** off and better more visible comunication. 1 bloody sentence on the product page is all i bloody asked for. its ur product do what u want, but let us know PROFFESIONALY. that was us one 2 one. anyway its over i guess got to live with it, juist expected more clarity. Kaveesh

No 2D, no money from me, simple equation. We were decieved on the NGX, at least PMDG openly stated their future policy now.

Hello, It doesn't matter if I agree with you or not but I do agree with having your opinion heard in a reasonable way. Obviously, 2D is important to you and others as that is the point of these threads. PMDG won't change their minds, though, as it's a decision they've made. The way they will change their minds is if sales for their 777 without full 2D cockpits sells for significantly less than previous products due to lack of full 2D. Until then, there is no way for them to know if you represent a significant portion of their user base. Until that time, it's best just to discuss rather than throw up rants that turn into arguments. And just to be clear, they are not removing all 2D panels just full 2D cockpit support. For those that use 2D panels to display on multiple screens and add-ons it looks like PMDG will continue with those. But for the rest, they have determined their time would be better spent on other parts of development. Good luck and for the record no one likes it when their way of using a product gets changed so I understand and hope you continue to be able to enjoy your hobby. - Richard

Sent Yesterday, 11:58 PMhi why are my posts being deleted? Tabs: Because you're arguing about stated PMDG company policy - the 2D panel stuff is not open for debate. We're going to do what we're going to do and that's that. If it's as big a problem as the couple of vocal individuals such as yourself seem to believe it is then I guess we'll be going out of business with our 777. We're more than confident that's not the case however.Ryan Maziarz Kaveesh

Well there you go..what a stinkin attitude, I so, so regret buying the NGX.On the fact ive help line these mugs pockets with my hard earnt.( cudda got the NGX elseware for jack, but no, i paid to help support PMDG, and the above says it all about what they think about thier customers) ''We're more than confident that's not the case however.''....a little too overconfident if you ask me.

This is going DOWN!!!

As I said in the deleted thread, after the J41 release PMDG promised 2D panels would continue to be provided in high end products. So I'm entitled to expect a full 2D panel on the NGX. There have been also strong hints that the missing NGX 2D throttle pedestal would be added as part of SP1, but RSR has now categorically said that will not now happen. PMDG are of course entitled to change there policy for future products, but they should stick to what they promised on current ones. They should be aware though that messing with customer expectations, even if those customers are a minority, is not good business practice. Years ago the MD11 was promised as an FS9 and FSX product. Then PMDG announced it was to be FSX only, for very good reasons, end of story. Customer pressure from FS9 users (a minority of customers) forced that decision to be reconsidered. I hope PMDG might reconsider their policy on 2D panels. Whatever VC enthusiasts tell you, there is still a demand for 2D panels. They are not dead, or the past. Kevin Hall

As I said in the deleted thread, after the J41 release PMDG promised 2D panels would continue to be provided in high end products. So I'm entitled to expect a full 2D panel on the NGX. There have been also strong hints that the missing NGX 2D throttle pedestal would be added as part of SP1, but RSR has now categorically said that will not now happen. PMDG are of course entitled to change there policy for future products, but they should stick to what they promised on current ones. They should be aware though that messing with customer expectations, even if those customers are a minority, is not good business practice. Years ago the MD11 was promised as an FS9 and FSX product. Then PMDG announced it was to be FSX only, for very good reasons, end of story. Customer pressure from FS9 users (a minority of customers) forced that decision to be reconsidered. I hope PMDG might reconsider their policy on 2D panels. Whatever VC enthusiasts tell you, there is still a demand for 2D panels. They are not dead, or the past. Kevin Hall

+1

I don't think PMDG erased the previous thread. Sometimes, they just disappear. That seems to be an issue with Avsim's forums. They don't show up on search and neither in the forum listing. And as far as the 2D panels, if you can't run a plane like the NGX in VC, then you probably don't meet the minimum requirements. If you don't, then why did you bought it?

Please don't be patronising. I can use the VC just fine. However I find the 2D panel more usable, expecially at busy times, and also more realistic experience for flight deck management (as opposed to seat of the pants flying in a Piper Cub for example).

If you say that you can run the VC just fine, but you don't like it, and would rather have the 2D panel then: 1. You are complaining that during turbulence, you can't click on anything. Read the intro, and disable head movement.

You can't disable head movements completely in FSX. The real problem is having to zoom in and out all the time depending where you are looking. Especially for centre pedestal selections which are awkward to make in the VC.  

2. You say that you can't see both the panel and the runway. There are 2D pop-ups, you know. Or you could use the HGS. That's why it's there for. I have a 19" screen and I can see them both very well.

I don't have this problem with the NGX, but it can happen with other addons. As for saying "use the HGS", by definition if you can use the HGS you can see the runway.

3. You are complaining that for precision flying you need a 2D panel. I never understood what that's all about...

There's your problem, not understanding. If you are hand flying and things are busy it can get to a point where you can't slew the view to make a change and have to make do. If you are in autoflight then it's less of an issue. For me I find the 2D view is more like flying the real thing than the VC which is distorting at wider zoom angles.

4. You say that you don't want to buy EZCA and TrackIR to be able to look around properly. Good news: you don't need to! I don't have either of them and I can look around really well. You can press A and Shift-A to get to different views. But if you really want TrackIR, try FreeTack. You just need a cheap webcam, 4 cheap LEDs, and some beginner soldering skills.

The home made head tracker imposes the need to wear an illuminated party hat when flying. Even with TrackIR you have to wear a hat or a headset. Ezdok is a better solution but still requires additional spending and quite a lot of time to set up for each addon. If PMDG were to develop their own version of Ezdok included with future releases it might solve the problem.

The days of the 2D panel are over. When flying in FS9 I couldn't stand the VC. But after moving on to FSX... I can't get out of it. The one thing I'd want PMDG to do would be to tell us how to remove the 2D panel from the views cycle. I do understand where you guys are coming from with this... but, really now... Everything on the missing throttle quadrant can be assigned to a keyboard shortcut. There is no real reason why you should complain that this airplane is unflyable because of the missing panel. The only reason why you're complaining is that PMDG said there would be a 2D panel. Well... isn't there one there already? Just get over yourselves.

If you really understood where 2D panel users were coming from you wouldn't keep trying to say 2D was dead. "Just get over it" is easy to say if what's missing is something you don't care about. It's not satisfactory if the missing piece is important to you. Kevin Hall

Please don't be patronising. I can use the VC just fine. However I find the 2D panel more usable, expecially at busy times, and also more realistic experience for flight deck management (as opposed to seat of the pants flying in a Piper Cub for example). You can't disable head movements completely in FSX. The real problem is having to zoom in and out all the time depending where you are looking. Especially for centre pedestal selections which are awkward to make in the VC.   I don't have this problem with the NGX, but it can happen with other addons. As for saying "use the HGS", by definition if you can use the HGS you can see the runway. There's your problem, not understanding. If you are hand flying and things are busy it can get to a point where you can't slew the view to make a change and have to make do. If you are in autoflight then it's less of an issue. For me I find the 2D view is more like flying the real thing than the VC which is distorting at wider zoom angles. The home made head tracker imposes the need to wear an illuminated party hat when flying. Even with TrackIR you have to wear a hat or a headset. Ezdok is a better solution but still requires additional spending and quite a lot of time to set up for each addon. If PMDG were to develop their own version of Ezdok included with future releases it might solve the problem. If you really understood where 2D panel users were coming from you wouldn't keep trying to say 2D was dead. "Just get over it" is easy to say if what's missing is something you don't care about. It's not satisfactory if the missing piece is important to you. Kevin Hall

Again, +1

Well there you go..what a stinkin attitude, I so, so regret buying the NGX.On the fact ive help line these mugs pockets with my hard earnt.( cudda got the NGX elseware for jack, but no, i paid to help support PMDG, and the above says it all about what they think about thier customers) ''We're more than confident that's not the case however.''....a little too overconfident if you ask me.

Stop crying over split milk, has it stopped you flying the ngx no, its still one of the best addons even though it missing only one pop up panel being the qt, not like its missing 4 or 8

Kevin, I'm with you on the 2d panel thing. I run FSX on a laptop that does a pretty good job of it but in the VC I find accurate flying very difficult and before anyone asks yes, I was a GA pilot with time on Pipers, Cessna and Rockwell Commanders so I probably meet the "minimum requirements". I have also flown FS products for the last ten years. However; I find it very difficult in the 744X VC ( I cannot run the NGX it seems) because;

• the panel zoom is distorted
• I cannot read the ASI or the Altitude on the PFD clearly
• nothing is available in a hurry when things are needed in a hurry
• it slows the frame rates

Good luck if you can run the VC on a super fast machine with a large monitor but I cannot afford to do so and would really appreciate a continuation of the 2d panels on all future PMDG products. Gerry