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B777ER

Brake Temp's not working post SP1

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The earliest full version of the NGX 800/900 that I have is the 15AUG11: 1.00.2916 version. I added on to that one up to HF4. After SP1 was released I uninstalled everything, made sure all folders were properly deleted. I then installed the aforementioned full version then the SP1 update over that with nothing else installed. I then installed some of the new liveries that were just released. I used the Austrian -800WL livery just now. Upon landing with autobrake 2 selected I noticed upon turning off the rwy the brake temps in the lower display all read 0.0. I tried a couple other livery then and all do the same thing. The brake temps are not moving off 0.0. Any advice?

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As I recall, several users already mentioned this on the forum prior to SP1. This seems to be the correct behaviour -- apparently, it takes a while for the heat from the brakes to reach the sensors. Continue monitoring the brake temperatures during the taxi-in -- you should see them rising as the brake heat reaches the sensors.

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The earliest full version of the NGX 800/900 that I have is the 15AUG11: 1.00.2916 version. I added on to that one up to HF4. After SP1 was released I uninstalled everything, made sure all folders were properly deleted. I then installed the aforementioned full version then the SP1 update over that with nothing else installed. I then installed some of the new liveries that were just released. I used the Austrian -800WL livery just now. Upon landing with autobrake 2 selected I noticed upon turning off the rwy the brake temps in the lower display all read 0.0. I tried a couple other livery then and all do the same thing. The brake temps are not moving off 0.0. Any advice?
try do a rejected take off see how what the temps are than

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Eric-The temperature rise on the brakes will vary widely depending upon the temperature of the brake pad at the start of braking, the weight of the airplane, the speed of the airplane, the amount of energy absorbed from the airplane's velocity, etc.At lower weights/speeds it is possible that you may not see any registered brake temperature at all initially, and even after allowing time for thermal heat transfer, you may only see a very low number.Prior to SP1 we had the energy transfer calculation set a bit too aggressively. I revisited the physics behind the energy transfer and this caused a change in the computational method used- but it should now match the airplane in most circumstances.One item that is worth noting: We had to make a bit of compromise in the lower ABRK settings because the ground friction model in FSX is completely wrong. The rate of speed loss with simple dynamic rolling on a hard surface is far to great in FSX- and since we are actually calculating a live deceleration rate using the autobrake, there are times when our brake controller may reduce the brake pressure significantly below what it would be on the real airplane, but it must do this in order to obtain the correct rate of deceleration... (Imagine the runways covered in Peanut Butter... that is basically what ACES did with the ground friction model in FSX... )Thus at light weights with lower ABRK settings, the temperature may tend to undershoot slightly...

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A very interesting read--I always am so very impressed by the way PMDG figures these things out and the 737NGX has simply blown all my other payware addons out of the water.

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Page 563 of the FCOM Vol.1 has a table for the Recommended Brake Cooling Schedule which speaks of the Brake Temperature Monitoring System being what seems to be a scale of the Event Adjusted Brake Energy. So in other words, because having millions of foot pounds on a display would be awkward and take up real estate, there is an equivalent scale used, which is the 0 through 7.5. So it's not a temperature as one might think.<2.5 means no action on the ground or while airborne, according to the FCOM.

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i tried a RTO at full weight and At V1 and yes they do work eheh, and they cool slowly on the ground now too which is awsome.

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A very interesting read--I always am so very impressed by the way PMDG figures these things out and the 737NGX has simply blown all my other payware addons out of the water.
Same for me. The only downside of this beauty: It degrades the rest of the planes to garbage. I just ditched all my other airplanes! (except my PMDG ones, ofcourse)

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Eric-The temperature rise on the brakes will vary widely depending upon the temperature of the brake pad at the start of braking, the weight of the airplane, the speed of the airplane, the amount of energy absorbed from the airplane's velocity, etc.At lower weights/speeds it is possible that you may not see any registered brake temperature at all initially, and even after allowing time for thermal heat transfer, you may only see a very low number.Prior to SP1 we had the energy transfer calculation set a bit too aggressively. I revisited the physics behind the energy transfer and this caused a change in the computational method used- but it should now match the airplane in most circumstances.One item that is worth noting: We had to make a bit of compromise in the lower ABRK settings because the ground friction model in FSX is completely wrong. The rate of speed loss with simple dynamic rolling on a hard surface is far to great in FSX- and since we are actually calculating a live deceleration rate using the autobrake, there are times when our brake controller may reduce the brake pressure significantly below what it would be on the real airplane, but it must do this in order to obtain the correct rate of deceleration... (Imagine the runways covered in Peanut Butter... that is basically what ACES did with the ground friction model in FSX... )Thus at light weights with lower ABRK settings, the temperature may tend to undershoot slightly...
I understand much more clearly now why the ACES team broke up !!They ran out of peanut butter !!The scenery guys were eating it all.LOL.gif

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hmmm....I am having this problem with SP1...just did a second flight...autobrakes set to 2, ZFW at 56.7 ton with 5ton of fuel at landing...brakes temp remained at zero at the end of th elanding rollout...I taxied out and even applied heavy braking at different times and still ZERO....carbon brakes are wonderful but are notorious for heating up very quickly...should I raise a ticket for this?Will Reynolds

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Did you uninstall the original version and reinstall followed by SP1, or did you just install SP1 over the top of your original? If you did the latter, then no, you should follow RSR's advice on how to update to SP1 first and if you can verify this issue still stands, then unless someone else knows otherwise, it might be worth opening a ticket.

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Eric-The temperature rise on the brakes will vary widely depending upon the temperature of the brake pad at the start of braking, the weight of the airplane, the speed of the airplane, the amount of energy absorbed from the airplane's velocity, etc.At lower weights/speeds it is possible that you may not see any registered brake temperature at all initially, and even after allowing time for thermal heat transfer, you may only see a very low number.Prior to SP1 we had the energy transfer calculation set a bit too aggressively. I revisited the physics behind the energy transfer and this caused a change in the computational method used- but it should now match the airplane in most circumstances.One item that is worth noting: We had to make a bit of compromise in the lower ABRK settings because the ground friction model in FSX is completely wrong. The rate of speed loss with simple dynamic rolling on a hard surface is far to great in FSX- and since we are actually calculating a live deceleration rate using the autobrake, there are times when our brake controller may reduce the brake pressure significantly below what it would be on the real airplane, but it must do this in order to obtain the correct rate of deceleration... (Imagine the runways covered in Peanut Butter... that is basically what ACES did with the ground friction model in FSX... )Thus at light weights with lower ABRK settings, the temperature may tend to undershoot slightly...
Is there any add-on to change that "Peanut Butter" to more real ground friction?Thanks Robert.

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Did you uninstall the original version and reinstall followed by SP1, or did you just install SP1 over the top of your original? If you did the latter, then no, you should follow RSR's advice on how to update to SP1 first and if you can verify this issue still stands, then unless someone else knows otherwise, it might be worth opening a ticket.
Yup, reinstalled 3 times now, manually delete all files not removed in the uninstall process, clean up the registry, etc etc....still the same result

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Gents-One point I may not have made clearly enough:Because of the peanut butter runways (read above if you don't know what I mean by that!) there are many times that we reduce the applied brake pressure to nearly zero in order to make sure that the deceleration rates you experience match the airplane's real world performance. Since the NGX is experiencing an unrealistically high rate of ground friction, it means that we reduce the brake pressure below what the actual airplane uses at lighter weights and lower autobrake settings.The result is that the temperatures are going to undershoot a bit at light weights and lower autobrake settings. I am still working out a mathematical model to dynamically change the energy transfer model based on weight/autobrake setting in order to give a perfect heat transfer model- but it still needs quite a bit of work.For those of you who wonder why it takes us time to create PMDG aircraft models? It is stuff like this... We estimate that roughly 2/3 of our development effort is spent trying to work around bogus logic within FSX... It really is not much fun- until you figure out how to beat the system. :-pTo answer the inevitable question: "Well why doesn't my XYZ addon have this issue?" easy... Most addons determine your autobrake setting by setting a static pressure level to the brakes in order to provide you with a greater/less deceleration experience. (Sorry, a "higher or lower rate of acceleration" for you physics purists... Whistle.gif ) The NGX autobrake is dynamically calculating your rate of deceleration and constantly adjusting the brake pressure to maintain an average deceleration rate as called for by the brake setting. Thus, if you do a max landing weight and use no spoilers/reversers, the brakes are going to add additional pressure in order to achieve an average deceleration rate as called for by the autobrake setting. If you then throw out the spoilers and add the reversers, you will continue to decelerate at the same rate because the brakes will modulate the pressure to a slightly lower setting in order to maintain the decel rate...Pretty cool... or hot... depending on your weight. LOL.gif

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Thanks Robert, the brake performance is spot on, I will leave it as is until you work out if there are any further changes...a related question though...will the "wear and tear" logic of the NGX get affected accordingly? ie are we less likely to see brakes failure or brakes wear because of this or is the only difference the temperature display?Happy either way, wonderful product!Will Reynolds

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Same for me. The only downside of this beauty: It degrades the rest of the planes to garbage. I just ditched all my other airplanes! (except my PMDG ones, ofcourse)
I was just thinking the same thing last night on my inagural -700 flight out of LOWW to Heathrow. I was thinking I could manage most of my route pairings with the NGX especially when the -700ER comes out. Even more so if PMDG lets us have the actual Boeing factory option of up to 9 aux fuel tanks which will give it a range of over 5000nm. I feel for me anyways that flying most other stuff now after flying this is dumbing down the simulation. While very nice, graphics-wise the lvl-d 767 pales tremendously. That has come off my system. All the wilco/feelthere stuff, gone. The only thing I am keeping is the Qualitywings 752 and the PMDG 744/748 but even that will be taken off the computer once the PMDG 777 is released. Once that is out, it will strictly be a PMDG 737/777 airline in my own little fantasy virtual world. Although I will take a good look at QW's 787 whenever that is released.

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