Hi eSimmer,Despite that policy, we have managed to provide previous service packs to our customers (SP4.4). Unfortunately that hasn't been the case with the new service pack, SP4.5/4.6.Apologies for any inconvenience this has caused.Thanks,Martyn (Just Flight)

Hi Martyn,I wasn't in anyway "mad" at Just Flight, so please don't take it that way.However, would you, Just Flight, work it out with those people so we, who boughtthe boxed version should have this update? I do like their B-757.It seems only fair.

That 4.6 update really was necessary and needed. 4.5 gave me a wobbling plane where 4.4 worked very good so I didn't even care for other improvements.I'd say it was hard month for CS customers since, for whatever reason, a clear statement from CS wasn't made. So the customers (not all, I guess) looked at new flaws while not seeing anything official getting announced. However, 4.6 fixed it, so the other things may come in as intended, as improvement of the 757.That update path for the boxed owners (you didn't miss anything in 4.5! ) still puzzles me. Where's the blocking element in that CS - Just Flight cooperation concerning the updates?From reading, it's not about just some days but way longer periods of time until an update reaches the box owners.Don't read that as offence though. I just don't understand where, apart from some logistics, a download offer for box owners gets delayed that much.

I was wondering about the box version update too and kind of bummed-out. Hoping for an update soon.

If you uninstall all the addons that are not pmdg-quality you'll end up with just pmdg planes and nothing else.

So be it :-) I'll take their 737, 747, and MD-11 as my only a/c before I buy a bunch of CaptSim or other airliners that are in constant need of patching, user modding, or just not accurate to beging with.

I've been looking forward to Captsim's B-733 but, this patch "thing" has caused me to reconsider.f(x)=They don't need my business + I don't need this type of developer support.

Their support is awesome... they put out a sub par patch, got tons of complaints and then they put out a new patch that rectified all the issues straight away. This type of developer support seems to be the best type to me. I dont know

So be it :-) I'll take their 737, 747, and MD-11 as my only a/c before I buy a bunch of CaptSim or other airliners that are in constant need of patching, user modding, or just not accurate to beging with.

Yeah, It would great if PMDG had a 757 or 767 for FSX. Or some military aircraft. Image the detail and quality we would get.

So be it :-) I'll take their 737, 747, and MD-11 as my only a/c before I buy a bunch of CaptSim or other airliners that are in constant need of patching, user modding, or just not accurate to beging with.

You mean the PMDG 737 that needed 4 patches and a service pack in less than 2 months? I have all of the CS planes as well as PMDG and both have their issues and both are patched. Your loss.

You mean the PMDG 737 that needed 4 patches and a service pack in less than 2 months? I have all of the CS planes as well as PMDG and both have their issues and both are patched. Your loss.

With all due respect, the hotfixes were marked as test versions for SP1 for users who wanted to try out fixes for certain things. (ie the freezes that only affected certain users) There's been one official patch - we did not "need 4 patches". Nowhere did we say there wouldn't be bugs and patches before release either - what we said is that we wouldn't knowingly release the airplane with bugs we knew about and we didn't do that. We also added quite a bit of new functionality in the patch too, it's not all bugs.

With all due respect, the hotfixes were marked as test versions for SP1 for users who wanted to try out fixes for certain things. (ie the freezes that only affected certain users) There's been one official patch - we did not "need 4 patches". Nowhere did we say there wouldn't be bugs and patches before release either - what we said is that we wouldn't knowingly release the airplane with bugs we knew about and we didn't do that. We also added quite a bit of new functionality in the patch too, it's not all bugs.

Hotfix3 was declared as mandatory by your boss, Ryan. Also, the installer came with it after the Hotfix3 was released, so nobody could actually avoid it since then.You had a bug list running for the first few days, which was a nice and transparent action.It later was deleted and people began to wonder why. They've also started to fill up your forums with already reported bugs. So one really missed it, maybe including the support guys.Personally, I couldn't use the surely nice NGX until SP1, as all hotfixes before that gave me freezes. While the fans generally declared those things as 'it's your system', one later saw that 'stability' item on the now official SP1 fix list.So, with SP1, that same system suddenly is able to run the NGX without freezes.Once again, the presence of the SP1 list alone is worth a thumbsup, while the steps in between Hotfix 1-4 until SP1 surely raised some eyebrows on the vital PR aspect. Don't defend your product, support it.I know that PMDG tends to avoid even the word 'bug', but I can tell you that SP1 did not give me much new features, but most of all a working product. And I've bough it close to 3 months before SP1.So, honestly, thanks for that and please continue on the transparent and open path. And, since this is a CS topic, I'd say that the PR around their 4.5 release could have been better. I'd even say that it should have been. However, since 4.6 is working, at least the customers are happy now.

And, since this is a CS topic, I'd say that the PR around their 4.5 release could have been better. I'd even say that it should have been.However, since 4.6 is working, at least the customers are happy now.

Hi CoolP,This is not to insult you: I don't know if english is your first language: let me point out:However, since 4.6 is working, at least the customers are happy now.I am a very not-happy customer. See, I have the "boxed" version. Bought and paid for, at Fry's electronics. I dislike underhandedness.Finally, I am through with this topic.

Oh I had that boxed vs. download topic here and I'm actually on your side, Alex. I don't understand what blocks the update path there. See my post.I couldn't trigger a CS statement on this and I also didn't see anything from Just Flight or other box vendors.I only have CS products from the CS download shop, so I'm actually not affected but can feel the pain of reading about updates and not getting them in time.So you are still on 4.4?

Oh I had that boxed vs. download topic here and I'm actually on your side, Alex. I don't understand what blocks the update path there. See my post.I couldn't trigger a CS statement on this and I also didn't see anything from Just Flight or other box vendors.I only have CS products from the CS download shop, so I'm actually not affected but can feel the pain of reading about updates and not getting them in time.So you are still on 4.4?

Thanks, no offense intended: this is what bothers me "A box - boxed CD/DVD version of our product available via our publishers, www or retail. I've got a box, how can I check-in to use CS online services?Unfortunately active Order Number is required for check-in. Everyone who have purchased any download products at Captain Sim Online Store or via our partners' online stores has the Order Number.Please note, Order Number for product A does not work for product B in terms of access to Customer Support services.Unfortunately none of the boxes (except Aerosoft B767) has the Order Number so you technically cannot check-in to access the Captain Sim Customer Support services. For support of the box please contact publishers directly. 8 benefits from buying download version in our Online Store:1. Access to Captain Sim Customer Support services. We do not support boxes.2. Updates. If development of a product is not officially discontinued the updates (service packs) are available for instant download upon release. As for the boxes, normally there are no updatesupgradesservice packs, because the boxes go through different development cycle and we cannot afford to fit the boxes into our tight Calendar of Updates.3. Expansions. Usually all expansions (extra models, features etc) are designed for and compatible with download versions only. Some of them do not work with boxes.4. Access. Instant availability via download.5. No delays. Boxes are available in 6-18 months after initial download release.6. Exclusive. Some products are available via download only.7. Content. Some features are available via download only.8. Flexibility. No need to buy all-in-one-for-everyone box, buy content/parts you really need, via download.In conclusion, when you decide where to buy, please consider the fact we are the developer. So if we run out of cash, the market will get neither download nor boxed versions of our products. Hint: buy directly - support the developer. Thank you.It's as though they have Just Flight over a barrel. I spent too many years watching my buddies's backs in the military: I find it hard to say one thing one way today,and then deny that my support was always complete. I will leave it alone. I just want you to know it's not personal with you.

So the Aerosoft box owners have a working and swift update channel and the other box buyers do not?I didn't know that. Still wondering what prevents the other companies from using that method, giving the box buyers a working order number to access the updates.But I don't know about the internal stuff that's going on there. Some silence may actually tell more than words.But, without blaming somebody, I'd say that at least some customers should bring more attention to the dev's (CS) forum about that lack of updates. I only saw very few posts on this rather vital topic over there. Most people seem to just bite the bullet instead of collecting some fellow customers and showing the high demand for a solution. One should at least try that.As said, I'm a download only customer at CS, but I can really understand that this status bugs some people, not only on the 757.

Boxes are available in 6-18 months after initial download release

Is this true for updates?

Yeah, It would great if PMDG had a 757 or 767 for FSX. Or some military aircraft. Image the detail and quality we would get.

I'm happy enough with the LDS 767. If they ever finish and release the 757 we will be all set.