Just a quick question for the "newbie" thread starter..Why does this smell like OWS? :(

A suggestion, albeit probably misguided, for FS software companies to produce freeware for an alternate profit model reminds you of people protesting a U.S. financial system that acted knowingly criminal leading to an almost collapse of U.S. markets with virtually no repercussion?Can't say I follow you there....

Many of the companies you mentioned above do give away freebies. ORBX give away an amazing collection of free airports. You make a point but it's very difficult.I used to think differently but then I started making my own little tools & addons. It takes a LOT of time and hard work. I'm not sure many people realise how much goes into it.Look at the Project Airbus A380. It's absolutely stunning, and the virtual cockpit is better than most!I don't think FlyTampa is making any money through ads and donations... if they were... they wouldn't be here...Just comparing profit through ads on their sites. I dunno how much money they make through addons. All I know is that when I type in a product, the Pirated version is either above, or the second one below the paid version.I cant imagine the man hours and resources that went into the PMDG NGXYeah, something to that extreme should be paid for. But one thing I don't understand is why their MD-11 is $ and the NGX is $70??Except a few, I wouldn't say FS addons are a rip off. Granted, some cost a lot of money, but that doesn't mean it's not worth it. As stated above, development time can be very very long and in the end someone has to pay for that.All was explained in my first post. Products like ORBX, and the NGX are fair game. I'm more talking about the $50 airplane package from **** that really sucks! (not mentioning names)The way I see it, people who pirate stuff aren't going to buy it anyway. Would be great if there was a way to stop it but in a slightly sick way, it may even be seen as free marketing. You've got people raving about something who would otherwise not have had it. Awful, I know, but not entirely inaccurate.But you also get such an amazing level of support with some of these big name addons, I honestly don't know how people who pirate this stuff ever get it working properly and to its full potential. In my mind, a pirated copy is also a "watered down" copy. You aren't getting even half the experience you get with your very own copy.Noted; however I don't think there will ever become a stop to piracy. The FBI has put out supposed of "programs" to stop it, but estimated last year over $200 billion was stolen through piracy. Risks always come with piracy. Malware! :(Interesting topic. The problem is that the market has too many entry points, for users at different levels. Some addons are for really inexperienced users. Others like myself demand real world, realistic addons. The programs out there meet these needs.However just like life the more accurate you need it to be the more it will cost. Don't begrudge the lower end stuff. We all stepped through loads of crappy products from well known cos.I'm not "begrudging" them, just sharing my thoughts of the production of free addons. I'm sure POSKY made a huge profit; not sure why it shut down?Not true unless you know some statistics I don't.Business is business and there have always and will always be thieves. It is calculated. I do know statistics. You know darn well that when you type in a product for FS, the second one or third down says "Download Torrent"Eh? Freeware gets all the publicity, except for high quality payware which gets all the publicity??Just talking about exceptions of products like the NGX who are sweeping the market because it's so darn amazing.Good points though, interesting to read.Price out what it costs to hit a little white ball around for a few hours and then come back here. Hobbies cost money. Then you have another option: don't buy themHobbies cost money. That's funny! Almost all my hobbies cost little to nothing. Maybe buying a stack of paper at staples; but other than that; keeping your hobby cheap is really easy to do.Yes we have an option to stop buying; but then we won't be supporting anyone? Downloading freeware supports everyone. (the producer, you)I just googled "msfs citation x"... nothing freeware showed up.Just like payware, not all make it to the top. Quality is the Key.Several things... first, your statistics are completely off the wall; no figures have been published by any add-on company regarding units and profit or donations. Second, the "thriving" Project OpenSky has disbanded. Third, many of the folks that used to produce freeware have gone into payware because they simply couldn't afford the hours invested in a decent product without some payback - thus neatly shooting your argument in the foot. Now you know what I think.On the other hand, there are quality add-ons that are free - all you have to do is look for them.I have a fighter! :(First, hypothetically speaking I was "lying" about my statistics, how could you tell me that mine are off the wall when you just said none have been published?Second, yes they have closed, but when they were running, they were more popular than most payware at the time.No argument is shot in the foot, you obviously didn't read my post on how they MAKE profit. Even PAYWARE get no profit while developing!It would hit me in the heart to see I spent all my time into a payware that people are getting for free through piracy.Just a quick question for the "newbie" thread starter..Why does this smell like OWS?Dunno what that means.I'm not bashing any payware company in anyway, just sharing my opinions.

Ehm, getting $200,- a day does not make you hugely profitable. How many people are there in project airbus? How much do they pay in hosting and bandwidth? Let's assume all non-staff costs are covered by the donations. In that case if there are 5 people in PA that means each gets $40,- per day, before tax. That's fine if it's just a bit extra on the side, but if it's a full time job you are only earning $5,- an hour before tax, which is not really enough to support a family on.To put it another way:$200 is - 3 NGX sales; or- 7 Diamond Katana sales; or- 5 FSDT LAX salesA decent amount of money to earn on the side, yes, but hugely profitable, no.

Consider Abacus business model: team up with talented amateurs who do all the creating and then flood amateur level product CD's in the stores for everyone to see, especially the casual user. I would guess they have outsold every other company making addons. Later it was DVD's.Why they probably will fail: in the digital age downloads outsell product on brick mortar shelves. The Abacus advantage is reduced. Any competitor can cheaply put up a fancy online site that could get noticed as much as Abacus.

Edited January 3, 201214 yr by Fielder

Just a quick question for the "newbie" thread starter..Why does this smell like OWS?Dunno what that means.

It stands for Overly Weird Statements.

Ehm, getting $200,- a day does not make you hugely profitable. How many people are there in project airbus? How much do they pay in hosting and bandwidth? Let's assume all non-staff costs are covered by the donations. In that case if there are 5 people in PA that means each gets $40,- per day, before tax. That's fine if it's just a bit extra on the side, but if it's a full time job you are only earning $5,- an hour before tax, which is not really enough to support a family onHosting and Bandwitch do not cost that much. I have a website that gets 3,000 views a month, and it costs about $100 a year to keep it running.Who ever said that was the only job they had? - 3 NGX sales; or- 7 Diamond Katana sales; or- 5 FSDT LAX salesYou cannot compare those 3, the NGX will always win.Consider Abacus business model: team up with talented amateurs who do all the creating and then flood amateur level product CD's in the stores for everyone to see, especially the casual user. I would guess they have outsold every other company making addons. Later it was DVD's.Why they probably will fail: in the digital age downloads outsell product on brick mortar shelves. The Abacus advantage is reduced. Any competitor can cheaply put up a fancy online site that could get noticed as much as Abacus. Good points, I agree.It stands for Overly Weird Statements.Why thank you?

Yeah, something to that extreme should be paid for. But one thing I don't understand is why their MD-11 is $ and the NGX is $70??

I don't know fully, but I would assume it is based off of release date. The MD-11 has been out of PMDG for awhile (longer at least than the NGX), so they have probably recouped most of their expenses already, whereas the NGX is relatively new. It is the same way with any consumer electronics, or goods for that matter, when they first come out they are high priced, but after time they start to come down. I know the money I spent on the PMDG MD-11 was well spent (same with the money for their JS41), and I am looking forward to dropping that $70 to get the NGX 737. Great aircraft!

FS addons. They are EXPENSIVE. Some of the airplanes and scenery I've been seeing are from $40-400.Personally, I think that's ridiculous. In my opinion, it's a rip off, and most people will pirate it anyways.

Yous should try RW flying lessons in a twin turbo-prop! ROTFL!

Good post. I cant imagine the man hours and resources that went into the PMDG NGX. I honestly would have paid twice what they charge for it.

+1!Cheers,- jahman.

Forum Rule #1: Don't feed the trolls

"Hosting and Bandwitch do not cost that much. I have a website that gets 3,000 views a month, and it costs about $100 a year to keep it running."Really? Try paying for the bandwidth and hardware necessary to develop and publish a single 200MB aircraft, being downloaded at one per minute.From your comments it's quite apparent that you also have no idea of the qualifications and skills required to create and publish an application, nor the business know-how needed to run a profitable company. Any normal IT developer with a modest resume will earn anywhere from U$60,000 to U$140,000 per year - and often higher as their skills overlap into databases and consulting. $2,000 per day is a "normal" fee. Ask any Flight sim guy if they make those dollars and they will look at you as if you have two heads.As "Wing" said - you should start your own company with this business model and then let us know how it works out for you.Most devs do this part-time, and as a thoroughly enjoyable avenue to express their creativity skills, their love of aviation, and because they enjoy the interaction between themselves and others, sharing that same enthusiasm for their hobby. It's inane threads such as this which only serve to diminish that enthusiasm.

Edited January 3, 201214 yr by Paul J

Forum Rule #1: Don't feed the trolls

True, especially the ones who:- believe guys studying five years, developing a complex addon for two and investing a lot of money into materials should give their products away for free (because otherwise it sucks)- know so much (much more than we, oldies) about piracy, torrents, etc. :wink:Having my hard work stolen many times, I could use heavier words to express what I think (risking a ban).But I won't since it looks like we have another 17-year-old who knows little both about real life and business.It's like flu - will pass in time. Let's not get too emotional - we've had similar threads before, haven't we?

Edited January 3, 201214 yr by Rafal

I just googled "msfs citation x"... nothing freeware showed up.

There is one on Simviation!

I don't know fully, but I would assume it is based off of release date. The MD-11 has been out of PMDG for awhile (longer at least than the NGX), so they have probably recouped most of their expenses already, whereas the NGX is relatively new. It is the same way with any consumer electronics, or goods for that matter, when they first come out they are high priced, but after time they start to come down. I know the money I spent on the PMDG MD-11 was well spent (same with the money for their JS41), and I am looking forward to dropping that $70 to get the NGX 737. Great aircraft!

Is the Js41 good?

There is one on Simviation!Is the Js41 good?

ABSOLUTELY! I love my JetStream! Quite realistic and probably the BEST turboprop you can get for FSX. Be advised, it has a steep learning curve, but once you learn it, it is an absolute blast to fly.

I don't know fully, but I would assume it is based off of release date. The MD-11 has been out of PMDG for awhile (longer at least than the NGX), so they have probably recouped most of their expenses already, whereas the NGX is relatively new. It is the same way with any consumer electronics, or goods for that matter, when they first come out they are high priced, but after time they start to come down. I know the money I spent on the PMDG MD-11 was well spent (same with the money for their JS41), and I am looking forward to dropping that $70 to get the NGX 737. Great aircraft! Yes, they are both excellent. Agree 100%.Yous should try RW flying lessons in a twin turbo-prop! ROTFL!Ooh! Yes! Big $$$$Forum Rule #1: Don't feed the trollsNot bashing anyone. I recommend you read the topic before making such a immature comment like that."Hosting and Bandwitch do not cost that much. I have a website that gets 3,000 views a month, and it costs about $100 a year to keep it running."Really? Try paying for the bandwidth and hardware necessary to develop and publish a single 200MB aircraft, being downloaded at one per minute.From your comments it's quite apparent that you also have no idea of the qualifications and skills required to create and publish an application, nor the business know-how needed to run a profitable company. Any normal IT developer with a modest resume will earn anywhere from U$60,000 to U$140,000 per year - and often higher as their skills overlap into databases and consulting. $2,000 per day is a "normal" fee. Ask any Flight sim guy if they make those dollars and they will look at you as if you have two heads.Why thank you for your rude words of wisdom. Obviously, if a company was THAT POPULAR to be hosting SO MANY airplanes, and having THAT MANY downloads per minute, the profit coming in from ads and donations would offset and PAY FOR MOST OF THE BANDWIDTH. And I do have knowledge of that, I build websites for small companies, and $2,000 a day is UNLIKELY.And where is your proof for your estimates? :(

True, especially the ones who:- believe guys studying five years, developing a complex addon for two and investing a lot of money into materials should give their products away for free (because otherwise it sucks)- know so much (much more than we, oldies) about pircacy, torrents , etc. :wink:Having my hard work stolen many times, I could use heavier words to express what I think (risking a ban).But I won't since it looks like we have another 17-year-old who knows little both about real life and business.It's like flu - will pass in time. Let's not get too emotional - we've had similar threads before, haven't we?

It's really quite sad of how users think i'm trolling. Were simply having a discussion, more of a "debate".I'm giving my opinion, your are giving yours, if you've got a problem, than exit the discussion!