Bill Was Actually Good For YouIn trying to trace the path from the demise of ACES until the recent travesty, I came across the article that originally told us to expect "flying games." True to their word, we are how faced with a flying game. However, I thought further about how MS FS went from a point of pride for Microsoft to the circus sideshow that we have.According to this source, Bill Gates had a degree of personal interest/affinity for Flight Simulator.Of course, I'll never be able to prove this or decipher causality, but I do find it strange that Bill Gates leaves all executive duties in June of 2008, and then just over 6 months later they can Flight Sim and Train Sim. Now, I realize the financial circumstances surrounding the times, but I suspect that some executive in the gaming area, perhaps Shane Kim, no longer had to bother with any sentimental attachment that might have lingered with Bill Gates still around.Maybe it was an MBA PinheadGiven that Shane Kim is largely credited with the successes of the XBox, XBox360, Halo, Gears of War, Fable, Mass Effect, and Forza Motorsport, Mr. Kim certainly learned about the gaming side of things. This means that Mr. Kim has deep credentials in gaming world and witnessed and directed the strategy required to position the XBox ahead of Sony. These were all top-selling games and devices and this success very likely shaped Mr. Kim's thinking. Around the time that Bill Gates was finally leaving any sort of daily position at Microsoft, Mr. Kim becomes the vice-president of strategy and business development for Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment Division (link).Someone earlier suggested that (paraphrasing), some hot rod with an MBA probably thought this up; well, with a Harvard MBA, Mr. Kim may be your man.This is not a vendetta against Mr. Kim because it seems obvious that he grew the company in the gaming area, which was among the brighter spots for the company in the 2000s. However, it seems to me that once Bill left the door, they gutted our beloved and we are now left with Microsoft's attempt at getting back to what they were after when they bought Crimson Skies. However, this isn't even that because you can't shoot anything and THAT is what the people are going to want in a game.The Value of Flight SimulatorFlight Simulator was interesting because it WASN'T a game. Not everything that had 3D rendering and interacting needs to be a game. It is also bogus that FSX didn't "reach the full audience it could have..." Most any gamer in the last 10-20 years knows about what Flight Simulator is and they either do, or do not, want to learn how to fly correctly. Or, to simulate flight to some high degree of fidelity. I think Bill Gates saw that a PC was a multi-use device and the Flight Simulator was among the many showpiece uses. Now, the primacy of the PC in the gaming market is 4th or 5th place behind the consoles and not thought of as a good gaming platform beyond a few genres (LIKE FLIGHT SIMULATORS!).So, it would be fun to look through all of the old posts lambasting Bill Gates, when, in light of my argument, he was likely the last champion of Microsoft funding a real Flight Simulator.Perhaps we can impress upon Bill that the best flight simulator, one that he helped along, has now lost its way. Perhaps Bill would be willing to kick into the kitty of some uber fund to produce a high-fidelity, fly-anywhere-on-earth flight simulator so that all of us can enjoy the magic of flight. To me, it could be a Google Earth type of venture: free version for basics, and a Pro version for the add-on/reality folks.Oh well, I can dream.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by ahuimanu

I'm guessing you're not far off the mark. Here's a quote from a post of mine in the BVATC forum,

"I was reflecting on your comments about flight simulation being boring to the layperson. I'm not sure I can argue. However, it made me think of a post I recently read that Bill Gates had been an enthusiastic supporter of the franchise, which is one of the reasons why it endured at Microsoft. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it struck me that flight simulation is really a thinking man's game (a true geek's game if you'll indulge that analogy of how it might have appealed to Gates). Sure you can get the darned plane in the air, but can you do all the things you're supposed to do to get it back down in one piece, and gracefully if you're good? It's not as easy as it seems it might be. I think this is the real appeal of flight simulation software and why it doesn't connect with everybody -- it involves choices made from analysis and experience, not necessarily from reflex. I just think it appeals to a different kind of user than other games."

I'm with you.

I am truly amazed at how adversely the Flight announcement has been received even beyond the usual suspects in the FS community - but amid all the wrist slashing, renting of clothes etc this short thread may be right on the money.Bruce

Hi, guys. Here's some more of my post from another forum. Thoughts?

And, I think that because flight simulation is an inherently different mode of gaming, I'm not convinced that even the people who download and try Flight will stick with it. Here's a quick parallel: Wii Sports Resort Island Flyover. Our family enjoyed flying around in Wii Resort popping balloons and collecting proverbial coins for about a week. However, we were soon bored with it. And, even if there were some sort of expansion packs to be purchased, I'm not sure we'd even get that far. In fact, I was joking with my wife that Microsoft ripped off Nintendo: the tropical island, the collecting coins, the dodging (not popping) balloons, the big windmill farm. I went so far as to post some Island Flyover screenshots on Avsim this morning just to give folks a grin.I'm also not averse to the "game" aspect of the new software (as much as I ripped it in last night's rant). I think you and I can see where Microsoft can make money with this (online communities, DLC stores, subscription services and the like with the eventual port to X-Box) to satisfy its shareholders. However, I'm disappointed that they missed the chance to bring us along to enjoy the improvements they've (allegedly) made to the engine. Consider if Microsoft had rolled out a free "locked" version of Flight for download and gameplay (like they are about to), but also offered an "unlocked" pro version at a premium price that was backward compatible with existing FSX add-ons. I'm not sure what that premium price would be, but look at what Laminar is charging for X-Plane 10. I think many serious flight simulation enthusiasts, who already have a college-tuition's amount of money tied-up in hardware and add-on software, would probably shell out $100 or even $200 for the upgrade.So, in my view, Microsoft could have satisfied both the mass market and the niche flight simulation market without too much more marketing legwork. Microsoft could still make a profit with subscriptions and DLC from the consumer gamers who like the idea of the "action" of Flight. And, they could have created a pathway to a "pro" version for those gamers who get serious and want to join the rest of us who have fallen in love with flight simulation, not flight gaming.Who knows? Microsoft may have done this already by licensing the FSX code to Lockheed Martin. I'm getting a sense that Prepar3D will be where the serious flight simulation community ends up. Okay, thanks for reading. Thoughts?Regards -- Dana (a fellow flight sim fan and out-of-money real-world VFR guy)

I don't even view it as sentimental.People used to do things based on vision. Now vision is dictated by a spreadsheet and a slick powerpoint presentation.Just like Charles Lindberg said at the end that he felt air transportation had not improved the world but deproved it I am sure Bill Gates is wondering the same about computers..I know I am-and I love them...

Nice thread. This is a lot more thoughtful and reflective than a lot of the hysterical stuff I have read on this subject.

What lindberg got to see with aviation, many of us got to see with computers and flightsim. The birth of an era.At the time we all dreamed of a future when we'd have the tech we have today. I guess what you and lindy are saying is that the initial journey - the time of fast progress, basic products, and dreams - is perhaps the sweetest.

Guys, y'all do realize that in September of 2008 the global economy only narrowly averted a complete collapse, right?In the span of 2 hours over half a TRILLION dollars was drained from the US Banking System in an electronic run on the banks and the USA was roughly 3 hours from complete financial collapse... which in turn would have taken down the global economy in 24 hours...http://www.economicp...ember-2008.html

Of course, I'll never be able to prove this or decipher causality, but I do find it strange that Bill Gates leaves all executive duties in June of 2008, and then just over 6 months later they can Flight Sim and Train Sim. Now, I realize the financial circumstances surrounding the times, but I suspect that some executive in the gaming area, perhaps Shane Kim, no longer had to bother with any sentimental attachment that might have lingered with Bill Gates still around.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Jacoba

@ Jacoba. The decision to close ACES had less to do with the global economy and more to do with a token sacrifice on behalf of MS to appease analysts on Wall Street. Do you really think that closing one small division of Microsoft did anything to Microsoft's bottom line, let alone the global economy?

I don't even view it as sentimental.People used to do things based on vision. Now vision is dictated by a spreadsheet and a slick powerpoint presentation............

Yup, its a sad state of affairs.But people with vision (and who prefer to do things based on vision) will always be around, this is not the end - there are falls and revivals (just hope the revival comes soon - things have been pretty hard for a while, even before the 2008 global economic crisis hit).Interesting thread to find among all the anger on the 'MS Flight' forum.

I'm guessing you're not far off the mark. Here's a quote from a post of mine in the BVATC forum,

"I was reflecting on your comments about flight simulation being boring to the layperson. I'm not sure I can argue. However, it made me think of a post I recently read that Bill Gates had been an enthusiastic supporter of the franchise, which is one of the reasons why it endured at Microsoft. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it struck me that flight simulation is really a thinking man's game (a true geek's game if you'll indulge that analogy of how it might have appealed to Gates). Sure you can get the darned plane in the air, but can you do all the things you're supposed to do to get it back down in one piece, and gracefully if you're good? It's not as easy as it seems it might be. I think this is the real appeal of flight simulation software and why it doesn't connect with everybody -- it involves choices made from analysis and experience, not necessarily from reflex. I just think it appeals to a different kind of user than other games."

I'm with you.

I love those words.That pretty much describes Flight Simulation

@ Jacoba. The decision to close ACES had less to do with the global economy and more to do with a token sacrifice on behalf of MS to appease analysts on Wall Street. Do you really think that closing one small division of Microsoft did anything to Microsoft's bottom line, let alone the global economy?

The closing of Aces was part of the 5800 jobs MS eliminated in 2009, it had to be related to the Economic meltdown.Regards.Ernie.

@ Jacoba. The decision to close ACES had less to do with the global economy and more to do with a token sacrifice on behalf of MS to appease analysts on Wall Street. Do you really think that closing one small division of Microsoft did anything to Microsoft's bottom line, let alone the global economy?

The closing of ACES didn't happen in a vacuum, it was just one of a number of MS development groups that got the axe during those tough economic times... do some reading and research on the subject.

The closing of Aces was part of the 5800 jobs MS eliminated in 2009, it had to be related to the Economic meltdown.Regards.Ernie.

+1

I think the OP is right. Bill Gates did like MSFS, considering his friend originally wrote it.The axing of ACES was politically charged. They had to get rid of someone. There were plenty of other ways they could have done it, in other departments, or by removing a few people across the organization, but instead they get rid of the only legacy part of the organization that wasn't part of Microsoft Game Studios.Best regards,Robin.

Paul Allen was a big MSFS supporter as well in his days there... he's a pilot in RL.