This will be a closed model from now on. Perhaps some day MS will remake a new FS as they did before, but Flight will always be under MS control like X-Box. They decided to restructure the whole business model and it isn't going to change. FS11 was being developed and restructuring within MS killed it, so they decided to run with this new project we have now. If MSFS returns it'll only be because Flight fails so miserably and the same guy who killed ACES agrees to let them go back. I don't see that happening with that company.

This will be a closed model from now on.

Sadly you are right. It's not even just about having freeware, it's the lack of innovation that will doom Flight (I believe). There are only so many levels, missions and gold to collect... Look at games like Farmville that were once all the rage-- sure it's popular but people have collected just about everything there is. Then what?

I get it, many people now love Flight and think it's the second coming of Flight Simulation. What I don't understand is the aggressive attitude towards third parties or those of us that only support FSX. Mathjis (sp?) from Aerosoft made a post, and you had guys essentially "attacking" his position

If I had to guess here is why Matjjis made his post....3PD developers (some of them) are surprised (and scared) to see how many peoples are posting good and fair reviews and comments about Flight, can we blame them, FSX is their bread and butter so if Flight does take off assuming that MS implement (and they will trust me on this one again) Flight with what we don't see yet, like AI, car traffic (I see roads in Flight), airliners (I see international airport in Flight) and bigger area a lot more peoples may slowly drift to Flight, buy more content and neglect FSX (addons wise).This is only my 2 cents on why Mathjis made his post....

If you would prefer to be in a forum, where everyone marches to the same beat and any words to the contrary dissatisfy you-- then I will kindly not post here anymore (if you ask).

I'm all for discussion, pro and con. Want me to explain my thoughts on Flight as a developer? Good thing my arthritis is acting up, as it makes typing long tirades difficult?But one of the things about being in a discussion is what is going to be achieved from it? You support FSX, great! What is your being involved in a discussion about Flight going to achieve? What do you want out of the discussion? That's what I'm wondering, both from you and anyone else who wants to come in and beat a drum to the tune of "I don't like it". After a while the tune gets old and I would have to think your arms would get tired. :LMAO:I won't disagree with people who want to point out what Flight isn't. But it my case I'll look at Flight and wonder what it can become, rather than dwell on it not being a full-blooded sibling to FSX. I've been a step-child before and sometimes getting accepted by the step-family can take a while. Poking me (metaphorically) in the forehead every hour to get my attention doesn't bode well for the familial relationship. And yes, I know I can make odd anologies.

Sadly you are right. It's not even just about having freeware, it's the lack of innovation that will doom Flight (I believe). There are only so many levels, missions and gold to collect... Look at games like Farmville that were once all the rage-- sure it's popular but people have collected just about everything there is. Then what?

MS would KILL for Flight to have the success of Farmville...As of September 2011, FarmVille is the third most popular Facebook game, behind CityVille and The Sims Social.

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by RichLP

The flight protagonists seem to be quite pious about it all at times. Why is the burden of proof on those of us who are disappointed? Why are only ego-boosting posts for Flight lauded while those of us expressing dissatisfaction "whiners" who provide "useless" negative comments?Opposite of "day" is "night" - the world is full of opposing forces.AVSIM is my community of choice and I want to share my feelings about things too. I, and others, are not happy about Flight's direction and hope that the discourse can include this sentiment. Earlier in the week, Joshua Howard has provided us some open-ended comments suggesting that "...there are a lot of opportunities on the horizon to evolve the experience..." Well, what if some of us want to keep up a voice that our experiences are not being met?Whether I sing a note, a verse, or an entire song, is my dissent worth any less?The truth is, some of us think that our franchise is under terribly misguided stewardship and I think, to whatever reasonable measure we choose to intimate this, that we should NOT be continually shushed.Look, I am really NOT happy when the product manager has this to say about a software legacy that likely dates back into his childhood: "I was initially skeptical about joining this team, having never been a flight simulator fan." I find this quite abhorrent on many levels.I have downloaded flight, I have purchased DLC, I am a member here - why does my voice not have rightful status?We detractors don't need to be chided over our negativity. Otherwise, let's just get channels along party lines, just as we do with news media in the United States, so that we can stew in the reinforcement of our own views.LASTLYJust as was the case with the lead up to release, we have the product manager giving us vague references to a promised future. I think that voices of dissent should be heard as well as those who are in love. AND, we should bicker as well.

The flight protagonists seem to be quite pious about it all at times. Why is the burden of proof on those of us who are disappointed? Why are only ego-boosting posts for Flight lauded while those of us expressing dissatisfaction "whiners" who provide "useless" negative comments?

Because, in my opinion, the main purpose of the Flight forum is to help other users enjoy Flight . . . as in sharing what what we have learned so far, and helping others with any issues they have.The purpose of this forum is NOT to try to convince others that Flight is a bad sim or to make fun of it (calling it a kid's game), just because you are disappointed with it.This is NOT the place to wage war against MS, just because you don't personally agree with their decisions in creating Flight, instead of FSXI.If you don't like Flight . . . fine. You and several others have clearly stated your discontent about Flight and about MS, over and over again. For weeks now. And THAT is not fine . . . especially when too many threads have been poisoned by all the anti-Flight/anti-MS stuff (much of which has been less than accurate information, just to make a negative point). That behavior is not beneficial in any way, and is in fact doing harm to AVSIM.

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by Arwen

Jeff,Our views are not welcomed here. Time we just move on to bigger and brighter things as life is too short. How is your FSX looking these days?

So, basically, any discussion related to the shortcomings of a sim, within the discussion area for a sim, is doing harm to AVSIM? Exactly how savvy are you to long history (now on the 15th anniversary) to AVSIM? We have "had it out" over controversial developments in this community for years.If we are to be muzzled, then please state it clearly in a sticky post and separate us for good. The FS2004 people were once pushed to a Ghetto as well.It is clear to me that we, some of us who have been around since damned near the 15 years of AVSIM, should now shut the hell up and leave this room.FINEThe schism is real.

Jeff,Our views are not welcomed here. Time we just move on to bigger and brighter things as life is too short. How is your FSX looking these days?

What views Jim ?The sarcastic remarks and totally unhelpful comments ??Fred.

So, basically, any discussion related to the shortcomings of a sim, within the discussion area for a sim, is doing harm to AVSIM? Exactly how savvy are you to long history (now on the 15th anniversary) to AVSIM? We have "had it out" over controversial developments in this community for years.

THAT was most certainly not what I wrote. Read my previous post again.There is a difference between posting shortcomings and/or bugs about a sim, and posting the same negative comments (often accompanied with ridicule) over and over again, just because you don't personally like Flight.I was really looking forward to X-Plane 10, but when I tried the demo (including the most recently released one), I was VERY disappointed with it. Yet I do NOT spend time in the X-Plane forum trying to convince others that X-Plane 10 is horrible. Nor have I made fun of it. We each should be free to enjoy the sim(s) we personally like. It is harmful to AVSIM when new members come here for help with Flight, and have to wade through the constant negative rants of anti-Flight/anti-MS members. I'm wondering how many new members came here for help, saw all the negativeness, and just left in disgust (or were too afraid to post in fear that they would just be ridiculed).

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by Arwen

Not to mention that posts for help are frequently pushed rapidly down to page 3 and never get seen, much less answered! I just managed by chance to see one, and provide an answer......but only because I started from the bottom of the pile, determined to work my way back to the every growing top again. Honestly, I need to surface for awhile and get my scuba tanks refilled, I'm running out... :LMAO:

THAT was most certainly not what I wrote. Read my previous post again.There is a difference between posting shortcomings and/or bugs about a sim, and posting the same negative comments (often accompanied with ridicule) over and over again, just because you don't personally like Flight.I was really looking forward to X-Plane 10, but when I tried the demo (including the most recently released one), I was VERY disappointed with it. Yet I do NOT spend time in the X-Plane forum trying to convince others that X-Plane 10 is horrible. Nor have I made fun of it. We each should be free to enjoy the sim(s) we personally like. It is harmful to AVSIM when new members come here for help with Flight, and have to wade through the constant negative rants of anti-Flight/anti-MS members. I'm wondering how many new members came here for help, saw all the negativeness, and just left in disgust (or were too afraid to post in fear that they would just be ridiculed).

Just call this a fan club forum and be done with it.And stop making apples and oranges comparisons. We ALL know that Flight has ######ized the legacy of the platform - now that I have the software in hand, I can clearly see things, so the aspersions regarding conjecture are not needed.We are each, pro and con, capable of being snide, snarky, pejorative, and rude to each other.So, again, just mark this up as a fan forum: no detraction welcome.Best of luck with Flight and where it takes you. Please direct us to the "smoking section" so that we can speak freely there. I can accept moderation, and I believe you do a fine job with it so far Arwen, but it is clear that, with only 3 DAYS since the game is actually released, that dissent is not welcome or tolerated.I mean, really, it has been out THREE DAYS, sure there is a period in which we can now discuss actual shortcomings rather than perceived?No is the answer, and that's fine.There is a place for Flight and a place for those to enjoy it, and this appears to be the place.Have at it as I am not sufficiently chastened and muzzled.Later alligator.

Just call this a fan club forum and be done with it.And stop making apples and oranges comparisons. We ALL know that Flight has ######ized the legacy of the platform - now that I have the software in hand, I can clearly see things, so the aspersions regarding conjecture are not needed.We are each, pro and con, capable of being snide, snarky, pejorative, and rude to each other.So, again, just mark this up as a fan forum: no detraction welcome.Best of luck with Flight and where it takes you. Please direct us to the "smoking section" so that we can speak freely there. I can accept moderation, and I believe you do a fine job with it so far Arwen, but it is clear that, with only 3 DAYS since the game is actually released, that dissent is not welcome or tolerated.I mean, really, it has been out THREE DAYS, sure there is a period in which we can now discuss actual shortcomings rather than perceived?No is the answer, and that's fine.There is a place for Flight and a place for those to enjoy it, and this appears to be the place.Have at it as I am not sufficiently chastened and muzzled.Later alligator.

What part of "There is a difference between posting shortcomings and/or bugs about a sim, and posting the same negative comments (often accompanied with ridicule) over and over again, just because you don't personally like Flight." do you not understand?Go to my website (link in sig) and read my First Impressions (mini-review) section. I list a LOT of shortcomings about Flight, and I have posted those same shortcomings in this forum (and in the Flight Beta Discussion forum). I happen to view Flight's cup as half full, rather than as half empty.

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by Arwen

Not to mention that posts for help are frequently pushed rapidly down to page 3 and never get seen, much less answered! I just managed by chance to see one, and provide an answer......but only because I started from the bottom of the pile, determined to work my way back to the every growing top again. Honestly, I need to surface for awhile and get my scuba tanks refilled, I'm running out... :LMAO:

Then perhaps AVSIM should have a Flight Tech Support forum, where only that sort of thing is allowed.The posts that may drown out any newcomers in this forum are the ones that keep extolling how much fun Flight is and ones that are just trolling for negative comments by baiting the crowd that will "just not accept change".Either allow both sides to speak their minds or neither. Also, AVSIM can clearly post the rules that no negative replies or corrections to euphoric posts will be allowed. At least then it will be clear what the rules are and people can decide if they want to step foot in this forum.