How do these dash 8 threads always get turned into jetstream sp2 discussions?

Becasue customers are dissatisfied that... Known issues [the bezel flicker for me is very severe] are left unfixed.Guys, there is a legitimate issue with the beveling here "We know what's causing this too - will be fixed along with the bezel thing mentioned in another thread if we do an SP2"

Exactly, SP2 for the JS41 was indeed promised - and it's quite ridiculous that every time someone asks about SP2, there are some posts coming up against it. Don't these people actually want their software to be better? But even if they don't want improvements, we still do, and it was promised anyways. And this is more than disappointing, such a great company such as PMDG letting down their customers.As for the Dash - it's all too silent, and my personal opinion is that it's cancelled. But let's be optimistic, maybe it's being developed.

See, the problem is that it works for the developers, and it works on my system (I can post videos and screenshots with the lack of whatever lines ya'll are venting about). If it can't be reproduced, then it can't be fixed. More than likely, it's a local (your own computer) issue, not an issue with something they can fix....but since it's easier to pass blame elsewhere, everyone gets up in a huge rant about how the lack of SP2 makes them sad.I'm not coming to anyone here and saying you need to be happy with the dev team, but I am saying if you're causing your own problems (or at least not fixing them), the anger should be directed towards your own system, at you for not getting up and fixing it, and not at the dev team.Surely, they can program around it (and remove some of the effects for the VC that tend to affect the issue). There are a lot of things that can be programmed around on one end, when they're actually problems on the other end, but it comes at a cost. My comp runs it fine. Go figure out how to get yours to do the same.

Are you deliberately failing to acknowledge any of the discussion that have been posted in this and other threads that doesn't fit your case? The dev team have previosuly stated that they can fix the issues but now, for whatever reason, have apparently decided not to. That's what people are getting annoyed about but seeing as you don't have any problems why should you care, just carry on trying to get some PMDG brownie points by putting others down.Andy Lawton

Scandinavian 13 - I have no issues on my system, actually the J41 does work perfectly, but it does not change the fact that SP2 was promised to us. I understand that the simulation works fine on your system, too, but hey. don't you want others to be happy with their software just as you are?Well, I do, because they also deserve to enjoy a flawless product. And if the dev team can fix the outstanding issues that certain users experience, then I would say, go and release that service pack, regardless of me being already happy with the current state. And the dev team - just as Andy said - already told they can fix those issues. Even the dev team of FS2crew were expecting the release of SP2... Just read the FS2crew manual and you'll see.On the other hand, improvements are always more than welcome. Who would be that silly to refuse improvements? Come on...

Kyle, It's ironic that no other payware on my computer, whether it be a scenery or aircraft is causing the anomaly caused by the J41. So your argument that our computer system, verses yours is the root of the problem is a lame and dumb excuse. The J41 has not been the only aircraft to simulate windshield and wing icing. I have other payware aircraft that does that and doesn't cause the triangle flashing that the J41 causes.

And not at last, kind of selfish, too. It's not only himself in this world alone; just because it works for him, it might not work for others, and those people need solutions. Solutions that were told to be delivered, anyways...

Kyle, It's ironic that no other payware on my computer, whether it be a scenery or aircraft is causing the anomaly caused by the J41. So your argument that our computer system, verses yours is the root of the problem is a lame and dumb excuse. The J41 has not been the only aircraft to simulate windshield and wing icing. I have other payware aircraft that does that and doesn't cause the triangle flashing that the J41 causes.

Are you being deliberatly hostile, or is there some part of Kyles posts you have difficulty understanding?When asked, you claim to have experianced one, and only one problem. How many other products can you name where you can say that? And it is a problem that does not appear at all for most users of the same product, so lets stop kissing &@($* here and ask why you think you are justified in being so rude?1) What is the difference between your system, and the thousands of systems that do NOT experience this problem?2) Does a fix exist that will not break the system for all the people that do not have this problem?3) Is there anything else that can be put in the SP that would make it worth taking by all the people that do not have this problem?4) Apart from a few loud (and annoying) voices like yours, are enough people complaining about this to warrant the cost and effort of the SP?

In response to your first question, personal hostility towards Kyle is not the intent. I don't know him left from right, except that he so chooses to volunteer his comments here like anyone else. What I do find difficult to understand is the denial from him saying that there is nothing wrong when obviously we wouldn't be complaining if there wasn't.As for your second question and remark, that is true, my main concern is using the product as it was design. The icing works, but there is a problem with the graphics when it's used. The easy way out is to just turn it off, but that's not the correct solution. To say that the problem does not appear for most users is not so. There has been many individuals that have complain about this issue. As for your kiss &@($* comment, I kiss no one's &@($*, specially a developer. If you can't handle a customer's complain, then perhaps you're in the wrong business. I'm not saying you are the developer, I'm saying developers in general. If you come to offer a solution, then fine, otherwise what's your purpose in the mix?I do think there is enough people that have complain to warrant the effort of the SP, however, whether or not the cost is worth it, that's not my call because I'm not the developer to make that decision. If they so choose not to, that's their call. You're missing the point, just because you think that we are not significant, doesn't mean a developers reputation won't be affected in the future. I may be just one customer, just one voice, but remember, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I used to think that buying a product from PMDG was a no brainer. Didn't think twice of just purchasing the product, but this has held me back from buying anything else in the future.You have a point when you said how many products out there can you say has just one or two problems. But whether one or one hundred, those who deliver on expectations go on to succeed, while does who don't fall sooner than later. Although I wish them well in the future, never think PMDG is too big to fall. Acknowledging a problem or flaw in your product makes you sound human, and that would satisfy me more than sweeping it under the rug.By the way, you can consider this issue dead, and I'm not wasting my breath on any more comments. You can counter comment or deny all you want, it's really a waste of time.

Guys, I see your points to a certain degree, but do not assume that because a developer can program around an issue that it means that it's easy or that they should. As an extreme example, car manufacturers could all "solve" the drunk driving issue by installing breathalyzers in all of their vehicles, but should they?People want extra effects on their aircraft so PMDG put ice effects and so on in the VC. Because of that, there are graphics issues on some machines. The likely reason that the other developers have put aircraft out there with icing effects, without the same issues, is that there really haven't been any VCs to the JS4100 level of detail. Like I said, they can program around it, but why waste the effort? Just turn the effects off that your system can't handle. Do you see people complaining to UTX because they can't run their terrain all maxed out simply because their computer can't handle it?In no way am I saying that I don't want the product to work properly on their systems. I want it to. Sometimes, however, the better course of action is to try to fix it yourself. It could be a problem with the video card (hardware- or driver-based). It could be a problem with their card settings. It could be a problem with their sim settings. It could simply be the fact that they have the icing effects on (a known fix to the issue is to turn them off, simply because some machines cannot handle it).I'm not trying to be selfish, rather, I tend to be more self-centric with problems that exist. Meaning if there's a problem, I make sure there aren't any problems on my end before running out and pointing fingers. It's probably simply because I teach computer classes and 99% of the time people say they're doing it exactly as they're supposed to, yet they aren't. I'm simply running on a hard-lined argument that you should check your own issues before pointing fingers elsewhere.I wanted SP2, too (I saw the FS2Crew comment in the manual), but it's still a great aircraft. More aircraft than we could ever have imagined for that price anyway (in my opinion). I don't like fulfilled promises. In fact, I hate them (repressed childhood memories of parental failures probably), but I find no pleasure in calling people out publicly.So, don't assume my message has any other meanings than exactly what I've written....and as usual my simple realism is too much for the forum to handle - instant minus 3. Awesome. I think I'm going to just wear the negative as a badge of honor around here.

Interestingly the Header of this post was Dash 8.......and there seems to be a huge deviation of the content regarding a topic that has been released and beaten to death. this tends to detract from the content one would anticipate reading in a "DASH 8" topic. Furthermore, Ryan not too long ago in another post addresses the status of the SP2, to which he may have said something to the effect that: Read this post http://forum.avsim.n...er-seeing-this/

The SP2 isn't going to be anything major if we were to release one guys - there's a new gauge for the FMS that fixes some very rare crash issues, plus a small fix to one of the 2D panels. That's basically it. If anyone wants those, submit a ticket and I'll send them to you.That isn't something we can fix - it's caused by the FSX engine. We've never actually reproduced it ourselves here - only certain people see it and it seems to be related to some hard global limit on polys or animations in FSX - it's not just the airplane, it's everything in the FSX "world", which is what makes it so hard to trigger. Everyone begged for rain and ice on the windshield and all that - this is the price of doing things like that - the only likely "solution" we'd have for it is to get rid of those features, which you can already do via the config manager.Volumetric lights and FMS holds were never on the list for a J41 SP - those are very significant amounts of development time.Remember there were extra features already added in SP1 - it didn't have any 2D popups prior to that, options were added to the config manager, more robust FMS waypoint support was added etc. This was never intended to be a hardcore study-sim like the NGX is - there's a reason it's $45 instead of $70 or more. It's 2 1/2 years old now and I just don't see us going back to do more major development on it. As I said earlier, if you experience any CTDs etc I have an updated FMS gauge that should fix that, but aside from that I don't see us doing anything else.

Thank you Simeon! I pointed this out earlier, it gets really old that every single dash 8 thread turns into a jetstream sp2 discussion. I can understand peoples frustration but take that discussion somewhere else.

...and as usual my simple realism is too much for the forum to handle - instant minus 3. Awesome. I think I'm going to just wear the negative as a badge of honor around here.

Don't worry Kyle, I still respect you... :)

Thanks for that info Simeon, ive never had a problem with the JS41 even run a VA based on it, but would like to see KG fuel/payload for Euro flying added that is all.More importantly when is the Majestic Q400 being released! :) Cash is waiting for that stunner Simeon!If and when they release a DASH i will buy it also :)