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Reminder about competing products...

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Guys,

 

We're not going to entertain discussions about other products that are competing with our 777 here - sorry, it's just better that way if we don't. If you want to debate such things, that's what the Avsim general forum is for.

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Well said, I apologise for going of on one on that topic :)

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Branton-

 

Which company are we not supposed to name? I must have missed that memo....

 

(kidding.... couldn't help myself. :Nerd: )

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Good post Ryan!

 

Yeah good one...lol

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Gents-

 

On a serious note for this topic- Ryan isn't just "being the heavy" by insisting that we will not entertain discussion of competing products- there is a very specific reason we are taking this position. Namely, it has been our experience that some users like to take sides and create drama when more than one product of the same type is coming to market. On the whole it becomes rather silly.

 

During NGX development, we saw a significant amount of this type of "drama ferreting" and it became a significant headache for the forum moderators because it required us to micro manage threads and put us in a position to upset people with our decision to answer/not answer/delete...

 

That rapidly becomes a no-win situation for the forum moderators because:

 

If we explain why we believe our product is better, we get accused of being arrogant.

 

If we ignore the posts entirely we get accused of not caring about our customers...

 

When we delete the posts we get accused of censorship...

 

So lets just get things started off on this note:

 

WE LOVE OTHER DEVELOPERS in the FSX arena. Why? Without them we wouldn't have a healthy, vibrant simulation ecosystem in which PMDG can grow and thrive. I have said for years that we are all simmers- and we make products for ourselves- you guys just get the benefit of our interests... I own some or most products from just about every developer out there. Some other developers make really good stuff- others make complete junk- but without all of them the market would wither and die- and that isn't good for any of us.

 

WE ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT SIMILAR PRODUCTS: Why? We are very comfortable that PMDG continues to live up to our long and well established history of leading the way in innovation, product completeness, product quality and product accuracy. We think we provide you with a good up front quality level and strong after sale support. We don't try to sell you piece-meal products that are still in development and we don't try to disown you after you have made your purchase. Our commitment to you and our products stands for itself- and you have told us time and again that this is why you are comfortable purchasing from us. (We appreciate that!)

 

WE DO NOT LIKE DRAMA: Perhaps it is the fact that we are all pretty well established in age and careers, but we just don't have time for drama-llamas... (No offense to any real llamas out there..) To the extent that we can keep the drama minimized- the happier we'll all be.

 

Okay- back to your regularly scheduled program...

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Gents-

 

On a serious note for this topic- Ryan isn't just "being the heavy" by insisting that we will not entertain discussion of competing products- there is a very specific reason we are taking this position. Namely, it has been our experience that some users like to take sides and create drama when more than one product of the same type is coming to market. On the whole it becomes rather silly.

 

During NGX development, we saw a significant amount of this type of "drama ferreting" and it became a significant headache for the forum moderators because it required us to micro manage threads and put us in a position to upset people with our decision to answer/not answer/delete...

 

That rapidly becomes a no-win situation for the forum moderators because:

 

If we explain why we believe our product is better, we get accused of being arrogant.

 

If we ignore the posts entirely we get accused of not caring about our customers...

 

When we delete the posts we get accused of censorship...

 

So lets just get things started off on this note:

 

WE LOVE OTHER DEVELOPERS in the FSX arena. Why? Without them we wouldn't have a healthy, vibrant simulation ecosystem in which PMDG can grow and thrive. I have said for years that we are all simmers- and we make products for ourselves- you guys just get the benefit of our interests... I own some or most products from just about every developer out there. Some other developers make really good stuff- others make complete junk- but without all of them the market would wither and die- and that isn't good for any of us.

 

WE ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT SIMILAR PRODUCTS: Why? We are very comfortable that PMDG continues to live up to our long and well established history of leading the way in innovation, product completeness, product quality and product accuracy. We think we provide you with a good up front quality level and strong after sale support. We don't try to sell you piece-meal products that are still in development and we don't try to disown you after you have made your purchase. Our commitment to you and our products stands for itself- and you have told us time and again that this is why you are comfortable purchasing from us. (We appreciate that!)

 

WE DO NOT LIKE DRAMA: Perhaps it is the fact that we are all pretty well established in age and careers, but we just don't have time for drama-llamas... (No offense to any real llamas out there..) To the extent that we can keep the drama minimized- the happier we'll all be.

 

Okay- back to your regularly scheduled program...

Well Said Mr.Randazzo :im Not Worthy:

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Guys,

 

We're not going to entertain discussions about other products that are competing with our 777 here - sorry, it's just better that way if we don't. If you want to debate such things, that's what the Avsim general forum is for.

 

I don't think anything CAN compete with PMDG products! im%20Not%20Worthy.gif

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mcbellette agree the 737 ngx from pmdg is the best i have ever seen, goodbye all other 737 the 737 from pmdg is so good that words are not enogh

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In a normal world, you shouldn't even have to mention this to people as they would have enough common sence not to do it on their own... :sad:

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Well Said Mr.Randazzo :im Not Worthy:

 

Why in the world are you bowing down?

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Well Said Mr.Randazzo :im Not Worthy:

Why in the world are you bowing down?

 

Maybe he just felt the answer was pretty much 'perfect'? As in, 'I can not think of a better answer myself.'?

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In a normal world, you shouldn't even have to mention this to people as they would have enough common sence not to do it on their own... :sad:

 

Well, I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. In a certain way, even if we are simmers first, we are also customers and we are not all rich. It seems reasonable that one wills to compare products to find the one which matches to what one can afford and what one wants.

In such a way, it may be tempting to talk about competing products in order to find evidence of which will be the best in a relative way for us. For instance: "that company proposes that option, will you propose the same?"...

 

However, and it is where I agree with this topic, often the debate becomes a trial about the products. Some put products in the dock more than they have a constructive discussion, and it is important to raise limits to what can be said or cannot.

 

So once again I fully agree with the message delivered by Ryan and Robert, but I also understand that some may be tempted to talk about other products and a reminder seems sensible to me.

 

Romain Roux

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Well, I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. In a certain way, even if we are simmers first, we are also customers and we are not all rich. It seems reasonable that one wills to compare products to find the one which matches to what one can afford and what one wants.

In such a way, it may be tempting to talk about competing products in order to find evidence of which will be the best in a relative way for us. For instance: "that company proposes that option, will you propose the same?"...

 

However, and it is where I agree with this topic, often the debate becomes a trial about the products. Some put products in the dock more than they have a constructive discussion, and it is important to raise limits to what can be said or cannot.

 

So once again I fully agree with the message delivered by Ryan and Robert, but I also understand that some may be tempted to talk about other products and a reminder seems sensible to me.

 

Romain Roux

You have a point there, but bear in mind that this IS pmdg, so the word "compeeting" wouldn't be my first choice.Big%20Grin.gif Also, I agree that it is constructive to ask those questions, but most people do it in a "look at them, they better than you, why u no do that, do that or I will never buy anything from you again and curse you and your family and your cat" kind of way which makes admins lock those topics. Most discusion can even be acomplished without even mentioning specific companies.

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Nobody is stopping anyone having such discussions on Avsim, that's what the Flight Simulator forums section is for if anyone wants to do that. Yes the PMDG support forum on Avsim has a 'general' section, but it is still a general section in the PMDG support forum.

 

Thus, even disregarding any arguments which might manifest themselves on threads of that nature, you can't really blame PMDG for not wanting people to come on what is their support forum spouting stuff such as: 'the new WonderSims FSX 737 has animated toilet roll holders in the aft toilet, when are you going to add them to yours?'

 

Al

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Why in the world are you bowing down?

I think people misinterpret the "I'm not worthy" smiley. Forget the words, just look at the animation. Jordan was probably simply saying he completely agreed with Robert, and that he respects him.

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Ehh. I like both developers... regardless of who is who or what has what i'll purchase both.

I also think everyone needs to remember not everyone is PMDG so its unfair to push that standard on every developer out there, if that was the case alot of the simming community would be flying default planes for lack of understanding... There are the guys like me who read the manuals and watch tutorials and Just Planes to see how things work and then there are the guys who just like to press CTRL + E and engage GPS hold. There has to be a developer for them too cause there are alot of those pilots out there who don't want an indepth simulation such as PMDG's (I know it sounds crazy but they do exist) haha.

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Ehh. I like both developers... regardless of who is who or what has what i'll purchase both.

I also think everyone needs to remember not everyone is PMDG so its unfair to push that standard on every developer out there, if that was the case alot of the simming community would be flying default planes for lack of understanding... There are the guys like me who read the manuals and watch tutorials and Just Planes to see how things work and then there are the guys who just like to press CTRL + E and engage GPS hold. There has to be a developer for them too cause there are alot of those pilots out there who don't want an indepth simulation such as PMDG's (I know it sounds crazy but they do exist) haha.

All you said is true, but you don't seem to understand the essence of the problem: PMDG has nothing against other developers or their products. They just don't want discusions about them on their support forums. It is their back yard and they get to make the rules. Personally, I agree with you, competition is a good thing, it makes companies work harder and that leads to progress for all of us simmers. As for those simmers who want ctrl+e and GPS hold, I don't see what buisness they have over at pmdg forums Just%20Kidding.gif

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Only one 777 developer can give PMDG fits, and that is The Boeing company itself. Nevertheless, I am still going for the PMDG product. :smile:

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Only one 777 developer can give PMDG fits, and that is The Boeing company itself. Nevertheless, I am still going for the PMDG product. :smile:

 

Ha!! You can´t afford a Boeing? Ohh well, gotta stick with the less good quality then? :LMAO:

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Guest

I do not see the point in this thread.

 

Once you try PMDG products you will forget about every other FSX planes because the other ones miss the superb-high quality of PMDG and the other ones seem 10 years older in terms of overall fidelity and gorgeousness.

 

I also understand why Mr. Randazzo is happy about having competitors, yes because comparing a whatever third party plane to a PMDG one is like to compare a rusty old car to a Rolls Royce so the comparison would let one competitor only to brilliantly shine. B)

 

I propose to close this thread due to lack of consistency :o ^_^

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I disagree with this whole heartedly. It has been my experience that the 'not ot be mentioned' competitor is at least offering redownloads of purchased products years after initial acquisition. PMDG, on the other hand, to show their dedicated love and support, no "strong support", requires their customers to pay to redownload purchased software.

 

What makes me want to decide between the two is indeed support and PMDG is not known for its' "strong support", period!

there is no need to buy the redownload purchase software if you have made back up copies of your products exes. So if you silly enough not to make back up of your downloads and your pc crashes than there only one person to blame. If you put in a support ticket you get a reply back within 24 hours so cant see that not being strong in support. Plus there have been instances where people have gotten their download link back again after putting in a support ticket in explaining their situation.

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