It seemed everything is okay at 500ft and below, at 300ft I disengaged A/P. I set DH at 100. Reaching 50ft, I slowly lifted the nose up, the flare went smooth and at 30ft I cut the throttle and suddenly the a/c was drifted to the right due to wind, no matter what I did with the rudder. I ended damaging the grass. I made a little aileron correction/input on final because everything was just seemed good. Any tips? I'm using Maddog 82. Crosswind isnt a new thing for me but never have I had this sort of wind in my last 4 flights, I ended landing outside the tarmac. It looks like the wind hit just before touchdown.Thanks

 

 

Cheers

Not sure what your question is? Fly the approach crabbed using ailerons, don't touch the rudder until you kick off the drift in the flare. The most important thing is to not touch the rudder at all until you are getting rid of the drift.

 

That's how it works real world and with most add ons, if the MD acts differently in your case it's probably because it's a simulator that cost less then $100 and designed for entertainment.

 

I'm pretty sure the mad dog is one of the more realistic desktop sims out there.

The most important thing is to not touch the rudder at all until you are getting rid of the drift

 

see if I get this right, so, I shall not touch the rudder until I can align properly with the rwy only with aileron and correct the rest with rudder only seconds before touchdown? thanks for your fast response Rob

The whole approach should be flown with into the wind aileron, you only use the rudder to straighten the nose during the flare.

 

Regards

The whole approach should be flown with into the wind aileron, you only use the rudder to straighten the nose during the flare.

 

Regards

 

If that's so, I have been mistaken all this time. Thanks

In the RW, a crosswind landing can be one of the more challenging things a pilot has to face. Here are some things you need to know.

 

1. On approach, you need to “crab” the aircraft so you cancel out drift. If you have a crosswind from the right, then your nose will be to the right of the center line. You need to keep adjusting until you have the right amount of “crab” and the aircraft tracks the center line as you approach the runway. Remember that the wind will almost always decrease as you get lower and will probably also change direction, so you need to make constant, small changes using aileron, to stay on center line.

 

2. If the crosswind is not strong, then as you flare for touchdown, use rudder to straighten the nose so it is on the center line when the nose wheel touches. The aircraft will want to “weathercock” into the wind, so you will need to continue to use rudder to keep it straight until the aircraft slows to the speed where the nose-wheel steering becomes effective. The slower the aircraft, the less effective the rudder is so you will find yourself using more and more rudder as the aircraft slows. Using rudder to yaw the aircraft will also induce a slight roll in the direction of the yaw, so you may need to use aileron to cancel this out during the flare.

 

3. If the crosswind IS strong, then you need to adjust your technique. When you begin to flare, use aileron into the crosswind to bank the aircraft so you touch down on the wheel toward the wind – wing down into the wind. At the same time use opposite rudder to keep the nose tracking the center line. This means you are using “crossed controls” which is a great way to induce a spin, so don’t do this until you are in the flare. Using aileron, gently straighten out so the downwind main wheel touches, using rudder to maintain directional control on the center line and then lower the nose wheel – all the time using rudder to keep the nose on the center line. In a severe crosswind, you may actually remain for some time on the upwind wheel only, until you have the center line nailed. But don’t wait too long, because as the aircraft slows you are losing control effectiveness. The passengers may not like it, but the goal is to get the wheels firmly on the ground before your ailerons and rudder become ineffective in countering the weathercock tendency of the aircraft – meaning the wind will be hitting your tail and trying to pull the nose toward the wind like a weather vane.

 

4. If the crosswind is severe, you will also want to use asymmetric thrust – closing the throttle(s) on the downwind side while continuing to have some power on the upwind side to counter the weather vane effect. You may also need to use differential braking to assist the rudder. Depending on the aircraft, you may be restricted in how much flap you can use and in all cases, some extra speed at touchdown is desirable to help you maintain control. Too much flap can increase the weather vane effect and the extra speed helps your rudder remain more effective during the flare and early roll-out. But of course, both these things will also increase your landing distance. (But usually if the cross wind is severe, you will have enough wind on the nose to compensate for the higher IAS)

 

Remember during roll out that as the aircraft slows, the rudder is becoming less effective in preventing the aircraft from yawing toward the cross wind – the weather vane effect. So differential braking will become more important as you slow and may even still be necessary when nose wheel steering becomes effective.

 

A safe cross wind landing in severe conditions will not be a smooth one and the passengers may disembark thinking you screwed up. Your goal is to get the wheels on the ground without them skidding sideways and maintain directional control however you need to – with rudder, with asymmetric power, with differential braking and if necessary, with the upwind wheel on the ground before you straighten out and get the other main wheels and then nose wheel on the ground. Enjoy – when it’s done right, it’s one of the more challenging things a pilot faces on a regular basis!! Throw in the inevitable turbulence and probable wind shear - and it can definitely "make your day." B)

 

Remember – this is how it’s done in the real world. Some things may be different depending on how accurate the modeling is in the sim….

 

Oh, and in case anyone wonders if I really know what I’m talking about, watch some YouTube videos of aircraft landing at Wellington (NZWN) in New Zealand. I used to be based there….

A classic explanation Ian which should be extracted and 'pinned' by our moderators so all benefit.

 

:clapping:

On some multi-engine (low wing) aircraft in severe crosswinds as you slow down increasing aileron and bank increases you might possible get a wing hung jet engine ground strike on the larger jet engines. Just something to be cautious of AFAIK.

 

You should also know that ailerons get less effective before rudder as airspeed slows and rudder becomes more effective in such cases to contribute to the roll axis as well as steering. This is especially so with large jet swept wing aircraft because as the aircraft slows airflow over the outboard placed ailerons rapidly moves toward the fuselage. Some of the larger aircraft have "spoilerons" on the inboard area near the fuselage which dominate slow speed roll. no special control is needed as they are coordinated automatically with ailerons.

 

For smaller GA aircraft that are expected to flare holding just above the surface for a stall landing, that is not used in heavy crosswinds and the aircraft is flown at a bit higher possible airspeed onto the ground firmly planting one or both wing mounted landing wheels and pushing the nose wheel down as soon as possible to aid in ground steering.

 

The aircraft manual should have a specification on maximum crosswind capability that should take care of bank limitations and side force structural issues on the landing gear.

 

When runway length permitted and crosswinds were reasonable I preferred to use a slip to landing for the last phase of final. This is performed at a higher landing IAS since the aircraft is banked into the wind and opposite rudder is applied to straighten the nose along the center line so the stall speed is raised. I was also trained on GA to use one notch less flaps to increase the touchdown speed without experiencing too much float.

 

In all landings as you get within a wingspan of the surface you will get some additional lift that softens the touchdown and if your airspeed is too high on lighter aircraft you will experience floating making it harder to plant the gear. This on occasion is a cause of an aircraft overunning the runway on roll-out.

 

On a B747 you have one additional assist in that the rear bogeys hanging down swivel (when not locked) so the mains can touch the surface while the aircraft performs some of its roll-out at an angle to the runway direction. Just a bit of trivia.

On some multi-engine (low wing) aircraft in severe crosswinds as you slow down increasing aileron and bank increases you might possible get a wing hung jet engine ground strike on the larger jet engines. Just something to be cautious of AFAIK.

 

You should also know that ailerons get less effective before rudder as airspeed slows and rudder becomes more effective in such cases to contribute to the roll axis as well as steering. This is especially so with large jet swept wing aircraft because as the aircraft slows airflow over the outboard placed ailerons rapidly moves toward the fuselage. Some of the larger aircraft have "spoilerons" on the inboard area near the fuselage which dominate slow speed roll. no special control is needed as they are coordinated automatically with ailerons.

 

For smaller GA aircraft that are expected to flare holding just above the surface for a stall landing, that is not used in heavy crosswinds and the aircraft is flown at a bit higher possible airspeed onto the ground firmly planting one or both wing mounted landing wheels and pushing the nose wheel down as soon as possible to aid in ground steering.

 

The aircraft manual should have a specification on maximum crosswind capability that should take care of bank limitations and side force structural issues on the landing gear.

 

When runway length permitted and crosswinds were reasonable I preferred to use a slip to landing for the last phase of final. This is performed at a higher landing IAS since the aircraft is banked into the wind and opposite rudder is applied to straighten the nose along the center line so the stall speed is raised. I was also trained on GA to use one notch less flaps to increase the touchdown speed without experiencing too much float.

 

In all landings as you get within a wingspan of the surface you will get some additional lift that softens the touchdown and if your airspeed is too high on lighter aircraft you will experience floating making it harder to plant the gear. This on occasion is a cause of an aircraft overunning the runway on roll-out.

 

On a B747 you have one additional assist in that the rear bogeys hanging down swivel (when not locked) so the mains can touch the surface while the aircraft performs some of its roll-out at an angle to the runway direction. Just a bit of trivia.

The risk of scraping an engine pod is very real - especially in the 737 where there isn't a lot of ground clearance to begin with ...

 

In terms of the sim, probably the biggest problem in keeping the aircraft from running off the runway as referred to in the original post is having rudder pedals that allow differential braking. And if you have seperate throttle controls, then it's even better. To be honest, I think it's one of several things that are often easier in the real world than in the sim - though the consequences of screwing up are a little more severe in reality! LOL

 

Have fun with it mate - it's one of those things that really does reward good technique and separates the "men" (or women) from the "boys" (or girls!)

 

Ian

Hi

 

Ian thank you for the explanations, it is really something to learn. Thanks people .

 

btw, been watching this over n over, really an awe inspiring touchdown,

 

 

I do that in the sim when crosswind and thought it was harsh and unrealistic until I saw this "watch your descent rate...!" final at 02:00

 

Cheers

See the Zurich one too. Masterpiece.

 

 

And a collection of videos from the capital of windy heavy approaches - Narita:

http://www.youtube.c...c.1.Pmk27YJlPM4

whoohooo... I'd like to have that wind o my AS 6.5 :lol:

(seriously, can you recommend a setting for AS 6.5 to have crosswind landing for beginner/intermediate, say, at LSZH? ... I'll give it a try and post the screenshot here )).

btw, been watching this over n over, really an awe inspiring touchdown,

 

7:03: Rayos!

Very nice video, thank you

 

(seriously, can you recommend a setting for AS 6.5 to have crosswind landing for beginner/intermediate, say, at LSZH? ... I'll give it a try and post the screenshot here )).

Or even more, which wind settings (speed, direction) are better to start practicing crosswind landings? Just for generating them directly in FS9.

To be honest, I think it's one of several things that are often easier in the real world than in the sim - though the consequences of screwing up are a little more severe in reality! LOL

 

I've always suspected that that might be the case. I've gotten better at crosswind landings over the years, but only after many, many hours of practice. That's when I'm doing an ILS approach, however. I'm still very lucky to make a safe landing on a visual approach in any conditions, and while I may be trying only to explain away my own incompetence, I think that the very nature of FS may have something to do with it--in particularly that FS, in all its iterations, is only a two-dimensional world.

 

I was lucky enough, nearly thirty years ago, to get a chance to go up in a real a/c (Cessna 172) with a certified instructor in the right-hand seat and myself in the left. It was a gorgeous day with very little wind. The airport, KUMP, was a very small single-strip affair a little over 20 nm to the northeast of KIND. Back in those days, FS consisted of little more than vector graphics, and very few a/c were included, but among these was a Cessna 182. The instructor had a long talk before we went anywhere near the a/c, and when he was surprised to hear that I knew a little more theory than the average guy off the street, I told him about FS. He'd never heard of any consumer-grade simulation.

 

Finally, the instructor walked me through the pre-flight procedure. I was surprised when he invited me to take the left-hand seat in the cockpit, but did so. He took the right, and we went though his pre-flight checklist before he started the engine. Then he taxied us carefully out to the active. He got the a/c lined up perfectly on the active, and asked me if I'd like to do the actual takeoff. I must have stared at him for some time, because he finally chuckled and assured me that he'd have his hands (and feet) on the controls at all times, so even if I did something stupid he'd be able to compensate and recover. Besides, he reminded me, I knew the theory. I even knew the a/c's correct rotation speed, etc., so he was interested to see how theory might translate into practice.

 

I finally agreed. I carefully advanced the throttle to the indicated position for takeoff, and in seconds we were rolling. When the a/c reached its rotation speed, the instructor said, calmly, "Now," and I pulled gently back on the yoke. The feeling I had as I felt the a/c become airborne was one of sheer terror, I have to admit, but I did manage to get us into a steady climb, and the instructor let me fly us all over the northeast side of Indy at about 3,000 ft. for nearly an hour before he finally took back the airplane and we headed for the barn.

 

What really struck me during the approach and landing was that it was much easier to orient one's self to the runway because IRL there is actually depth to work with, too, unlike the case which obtains in a flat depiction, no matter how good, on a computer screen.

 

I never followed up, never had any desire after that experience to learn to fly IRL although my respect for those who can and do increased inordinately. I remain comforted by the fact that even if I do something egregiously stupid, I can't actually kill anyone including myself in FS. But I still find visual approaches in FS to be about a 50-50 proposition at best.

In the RW, a crosswind landing can be one of the more challenging things a pilot has to face. Here are some things you need to know.

 

1. On approach, you need to “crab” the aircraft so you cancel out drift. If you have a crosswind from the right, then your nose will be to the right of the center line. You need to keep adjusting until you have the right amount of “crab” and the aircraft tracks the center line as you approach the runway. Remember that the wind will almost always decrease as you get lower and will probably also change direction, so you need to make constant, small changes using aileron, to stay on center line.

 

2. If the crosswind is not strong, then as you flare for touchdown, use rudder to straighten the nose so it is on the center line when the nose wheel touches. The aircraft will want to “weathercock” into the wind, so you will need to continue to use rudder to keep it straight until the aircraft slows to the speed where the nose-wheel steering becomes effective. The slower the aircraft, the less effective the rudder is so you will find yourself using more and more rudder as the aircraft slows. Using rudder to yaw the aircraft will also induce a slight roll in the direction of the yaw, so you may need to use aileron to cancel this out during the flare.

 

3. If the crosswind IS strong, then you need to adjust your technique. When you begin to flare, use aileron into the crosswind to bank the aircraft so you touch down on the wheel toward the wind – wing down into the wind. At the same time use opposite rudder to keep the nose tracking the center line. This means you are using “crossed controls” which is a great way to induce a spin, so don’t do this until you are in the flare. Using aileron, gently straighten out so the downwind main wheel touches, using rudder to maintain directional control on the center line and then lower the nose wheel – all the time using rudder to keep the nose on the center line. In a severe crosswind, you may actually remain for some time on the upwind wheel only, until you have the center line nailed. But don’t wait too long, because as the aircraft slows you are losing control effectiveness. The passengers may not like it, but the goal is to get the wheels firmly on the ground before your ailerons and rudder become ineffective in countering the weathercock tendency of the aircraft – meaning the wind will be hitting your tail and trying to pull the nose toward the wind like a weather vane.

 

4. If the crosswind is severe, you will also want to use asymmetric thrust – closing the throttle(s) on the downwind side while continuing to have some power on the upwind side to counter the weather vane effect. You may also need to use differential braking to assist the rudder. Depending on the aircraft, you may be restricted in how much flap you can use and in all cases, some extra speed at touchdown is desirable to help you maintain control. Too much flap can increase the weather vane effect and the extra speed helps your rudder remain more effective during the flare and early roll-out. But of course, both these things will also increase your landing distance. (But usually if the cross wind is severe, you will have enough wind on the nose to compensate for the higher IAS)

 

Remember during roll out that as the aircraft slows, the rudder is becoming less effective in preventing the aircraft from yawing toward the cross wind – the weather vane effect. So differential braking will become more important as you slow and may even still be necessary when nose wheel steering becomes effective.

 

A safe cross wind landing in severe conditions will not be a smooth one and the passengers may disembark thinking you screwed up. Your goal is to get the wheels on the ground without them skidding sideways and maintain directional control however you need to – with rudder, with asymmetric power, with differential braking and if necessary, with the upwind wheel on the ground before you straighten out and get the other main wheels and then nose wheel on the ground. Enjoy – when it’s done right, it’s one of the more challenging things a pilot faces on a regular basis!! Throw in the inevitable turbulence and probable wind shear - and it can definitely "make your day." B)

 

Remember – this is how it’s done in the real world. Some things may be different depending on how accurate the modeling is in the sim….

 

Oh, and in case anyone wonders if I really know what I’m talking about, watch some YouTube videos of aircraft landing at Wellington (NZWN) in New Zealand. I used to be based there….

 

Great explanations, simple and very understandable! Thank you very much.

I have one question regarding crosswinds - when is croswind light, when strong, when severe? Is that clearly defined or it's at pilot discretion, experience, tipe of aircraft etc?