I'm a user of FS9, FSX/Prepar3d and X-Plane10, all for different reasons. I have a background in Aerospace Eng (4 years study at RMIT), been involved in software development and the marketing of the final product across the globe, flown GA across Europe and Australia, and even married BA cabin crew I met on a flight from London to Copenhagen, so I think I have some interesting insights. But .... I really am failing to understand why so many of these X-Plane threads degenerate in to FSX vs X-Plane?! Being new to this site it's actually rather painful to have to read through all this guff when I was interested in the 64bit scenery discussion I expected ... it is interesting none the less to see how people try to justify their statements.

 

As the topic is "X-Plane 64bit scenery", I don't know why flight model characteristics had to enter the discussion? Why don't you setup a new thread called "Why X-Plane/FSX stinks real bad", or "Why X-Plane/FSX is soooo much better man", or do the admins look poorly on that so these gorilla tactics have to hijack other more innocent threads? Maybe then a less inflammatory topic such as "Which sim has the best flight characteristics?"

 

Now, to get back to the original topic; I hope the OP survived his sister in law, but would like to recommend she visit more often so he can make some more videos - great stuff!!

 

There's another BETA for 10.20 out sometime soon - naturally Was suggested by Ben to happen sometime this week. Hopefully it will continue introducing even more new autogen and the World will continue to get more and more filled with appropriate styled buildings.

 

Maybe another video when your sister-in-law visits at Christmas?

Actually, she is coming for Christmas :mad:

 

But I agree with Danny73. Too many threads turn into an argument about FSX vs X-plane vs whatever. I Use X-plane 10, FSX, Aerofly, DCS world and Rise of Flight. All are great in their own way. No one sim can do it all perfectly or ever will. Best thing is to use them all and enjoy what each one brings to the table.

 

I do my best to support the Flight sim economy for all flight simulations, because like it or not, we are a minority.

 

Id be willing to bet more copies of Black ops were sold than all the flights sims put together.

 

 

Rob

Boy, am I tired of that stupid flight-model FSX / XP argument.

 

There is not one flightmodel per sim but one flightmodel per aircraft. Please stop talking about FSX or XP "flightmodel" when you're actually talking about the flightmodel of a plane. It's the coding of the plane that makes a plane realistic, not the sim itself.

Why is it so hard to see that it is possible to code realistic behavior of airplanes in both sims?

The only real difference is that there is MUCH more money in the FSX market and thus more manpower and resources to code high quality airplanes, scenery, airports. Period.

 

Flo

so why doesn't even Laminar supply "near-perfectly" performing airplanes right out of the box, don't they know to cook according to their own magic recipes to apply blade elements technology? if they don't deliver "near-perfectly" performing airplanes, who am I to blame 3rd party airplane developers, because "they are just not good enough" ?.

 

You even fail to realize that your argument equally applies to FSX default aircrafts, whose FM sucks compared to third party ones...

Oh boy ... seems people will just keep on ranting

 

At any rate, Rob thanks again for the video - completely agree with your statements as well.

 

As it is I think I'll just de-follow this thread. Will be looking forward to that Christmas video though :biggrin:

The quotes above don't give any intrinsic advantage to either technique, BET or tables.

 

That wasn't the point. He implied that look-up tables are superior because they're used in commercial simulators. I presented information showing otherwise.

Ahh, you see I didn't see him say that they were better. I just saw him say that they were as accurate as mathematical models. Probably more so as it would be very difficult to derive a mathematical model based on an airframe and all it's parameters, although for us simmers it doesnt really matter.

 

Anyway, rereading his post he didnt say superior but he certainly implied not inferior

Anyway, rereading his post he didnt say superior but he certainly implied not inferior

 

Really?

He doesn't readily admit it, but he does corroborate it...as seen below.

If it was any more scathing, he would literally be suggesting that the flight models in BF3 were better.

 

 

"The answers to the RW experience on a sim can only be given by RL pilots on this forum."

 

very true, and aviation engineers. and both have said before numerous times in this forum how bad and unreal the XP flight model is, this is especially true for small single engine prop airplanes, even worse and unflyable with rw weather enabled, at a mere 11 knots cross winds the plane flips over. no need to argue any further about "most advanced simulator with realistic flight model". forget that "blade elements" superiority myth over look-up table approach. look-up tables are used in commercial simulators, and for a reason. they can contain precomputed values taken from wind tunnel and rw test flights, and are as realistic as any mathematical model. otherwise Boeing, Airbus etc, would use xp10 for development. and if they did, we sure would have heard about it on the front page of x-plane.com ;-)

 

just ask rw pilots if they think the XP flight model is realistic. they will admit that is NOT, but for lack of alternatives will enjoy other aspects in XP, like systems failures training, IFR approaches etc.

Goran, I was just looking back at his last post which MM referenced.

 

Looking at the full post you quoted I dont see any real reference to table lookups being better, just an opinion about what he considers the BS side of the marketing when there have been some obvious gaps in performance.

 

He certainly doesnt seem to think that table look ups are worse for a FS than BET. His opinion on XPX as a whole doesnt really matter as far as I am concerned as it's a good sim and on par with it's competition in may respects. His opinion there doesnt make any difference to bet vs tables. You would say he is biased and he may well be but that doesnt make him wrong.

 

Both can do fantastic things. I go along with him that BET is over marketed and only LR push the point, not the other sims. In game it doesnt impact me so its really academic for the most part.

 

Also, I really belive a lot of pilots would think that about xpx, as well as pilots who are first time users of FSX. There are so many determining things as to why you would get a good or bad experience in either. Largely its not based on how the game calculates its physics though.

 

I also race in iracing. It's the most 'serious' racing sim. There are complete diahards in there knowing they are racing the most realistic simulator ever and a lot dont know differently.

 

I had a guy over one day through a company I did some work for and asked him to have a go. The V8 supercar was just released and touted as the most realistic one in sim history. The guys online were raving about it. In my glee I told him to have a go as I knew he was a tester for one of the V8 teams. The reality of the situation was told to me afterwards. Fun yes, not like racing a V8 supercar though

All that is well and good. However, he does mention one thing that you fail to admit.

 

"just ask rw pilots if they think the XP flight model is realistic. they will admit that is NOT"

 

Kind of a broad, biased statement which, if we are totally honest, is just a personal opinion drawn directly from his own bias, don't you think?

 

And before Larry jumps in (as he always does), I know quite a few rw pilots (the ones I mentioned) who were very skeptical about X-Plane at first. When I told them to try the demo and a few recommended freeware add ons, they very quickly changed their mind.

Sorry Goran, what do you mean I fail to admit? I dont have any bias here, I have been around the forums since I bought xpx last december or november, whenever it came out. I had some specific issues with it at the time but I couldnt care less for the marketing hype as I know it to be just that. This doesnt worry me at all

 

The stuff about the superior FM I just glaze over because as stated so many times is just marketing. Can it be good or excellent in XPX? Yes! the same can be said for FSX depending on the aircraft. The same is true for XPX - it depends on the aircraft.

 

He may have a broad biased statement but we know it is his opinion drawn from his interactions. You dont need to tell me that, it's obvious.

 

You follow your post saying that you have had the opposite experience with rw pilots. Excellent! Which biased opinion based on experience is more valid? Yours or his? Of course neither!

 

Leave it to the readers and their own experience to determine that.

I started a new thread... Should you be interested in reading about it, please do :-)

Sorry Goran, what do you mean I fail to admit? I dont have any bias here, I have been around the forums since I bought xpx last december or november, whenever it came out. I had some specific issues with it at the time but I couldnt care less for the marketing hype as I know it to be just that. This doesnt worry me at all

 

The stuff about the superior FM I just glaze over because as stated so many times is just marketing. Can it be good or excellent in XPX? Yes! the same can be said for FSX depending on the aircraft. The same is true for XPX - it depends on the aircraft.

 

He may have a broad biased statement but we know it is his opinion drawn from his interactions. You dont need to tell me that, it's obvious.

 

You follow your post saying that you have had the opposite experience with rw pilots. Excellent! Which biased opinion based on experience is more valid? Yours or his? Of course neither!

 

Leave it to the readers and their own experience to determine that.

 

I'm afraid you completely missed the relevant part of my post.

I'll try to summarize it for you and get to the point.

You said...

"Which biased opinion based on experience is more valid? Yours or his?"

 

I would have to say that his opinion holds no truth to it because he said...

 

"just ask rw pilots if they think the XP flight model is realistic. they will admit that is NOT"

 

Really? Ask RW pilots? As in ANY and every rw pilot?

 

Whereas I stated particular people that I know that actually prefer X Plane. I didn't generalize and say ALL RW pilots will say X Plane is better and more realistic based on a personal bias.

 

I hope I've clarified my point for you. At least somewhat.

Perhaps we should cut the debate short here as it is really a little pointless when trying to argue which flight model is "better".

All that is going to happen is tempers will fray, arguments will escalate and moderators will start locking threads.

X-Plane 10 is here to stay, until X Plane 11. It's not going anywhere, and that can only be a good thing in the long run.

You have clarified that you are pedantic and that most people can work out that the people whom he has spoken to have that opinion while others that you have spoken to have a different opinion. Thats life.

Pedantic?

ok...?

I guess you could then be described as very liberal.

To each his own.

As you say, that's life.

Have a great day!