Can we pilot a real 737 if we can

[Vargveum 53]

I agree with you, it isn't. But manual flying is not necessary to complete this hypothetical flight.

 

Ok, fair enough. Like you said, it's purely hypothetical.. so I guess we can make the rules of engagement we want. ^_^

 

However, if the situation would be cold and dark thru cold and dark, I am convinced the endeavour would end badly if the simmer didn't have real flying experience.

[TurboTomato 90]

As has been mentioned before:

• Get into cockpit.
  
• Find and hit 'Y' button.
  
• Slew onto runway (thus rendering weather conditions irrelevant).
  
• Hit 'Y' button again and take plaudits for being an awsum hero.
  
• Wink as you walk away.
  

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Limited mind frame forum participants? LMAO So just because you have a pair of headsets on and a butt grin on your face, makes you the resident expert?

 

For what it's worth, that wasn't a personal attack or anything, it's just a fact of life here. Most of the people here don't have real flight experience, and if they do, it's probably just PPL.

 

Me having aviation headsets on doesn't make me a resident expert, no.

Having been a(n):

• Rampie (ACA/IDE, AWI - all at IAD)
  
• Brake rider (CRJ2 at IDE - means I powered the plane up to move it gate to gate - nothing like being a pilot for an airline, but I know what it feels like to work up front in terms of the interface)
  
• FBO guy (BCB, Cutter DVT/PHX)
  
• Airport planner (Campbell & Paris)
  
• Crew and aircraft scheduler (PAIFA/TransPac)
  
• ATC trainee (PUBNAT 8)
  
• Current FAA contractor for traffic management and aircraft data access (working on CDM)
  
• Pilot
  

...means I don't have as limited a frame as many here. That's not a slight at all. I'm just saying I have more knowledge from practical experience than your average simmer who only has experience and knowledge from Flight Sim and websites/YouTube/etc.

 

Thats why pilots dont eat the same food as one another :lol:

 

Haha, yeah...while on the plane. Go ask a crew what they do when they get off work. A lot of them go to a restaurant or bar as a group and all eat together. So, while none of them are going to get violently ill from the in-flight meal, whatever they had last night may come back to haunt them.

[kevinh 409]

Ok, fair enough. Like you said, it's purely hypothetical.. so I guess we can make the rules of engagement we want. ^_^

 

However, if the situation would be cold and dark thru cold and dark, I am convinced the endeavour would end badly if the simmer didn't have real flying experience.

I don't understand the reverence on this forum, and other sim forums, for cold and dark. If you accept that button pushing is possible in flight, why on earth does powering up and powering down the aircraft (by pushing buttons) make it much more difficult?

 

Some people here seem to think that because the NGX is a complex addon, the real life NG is a complex aircraft. The fact is compared to its bigger brothers it's fairly simple. The NGX is just reflecting the reality better. However without the new technology in the NG, and the high degree of realism of it in the NGX, this hypothetical challenge would be very much harder, maybe impossible. I don't think a simmer could go straight from flying the Tin Mouse to successfully fly a 737-200 from A to B for example.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

However without the new technology in the NG, and the high degree of realism of it in the NGX, this hypothetical challenge would be very much harder, maybe impossible.

 

Exactly.

 

Same situation in a DC-10, or Concorde? Hosed (even more so in the latter than the former).

[vololiberista 205]

Hi,

 

 

 

As a PPL guy I would prefere to have the guy on the radio tell me what switch to press when, instead of the simmer.

As a simmer I would only put my hand up if there is nobody who does have a PPL or something similar. If there is nobody, at least you can try it. Crashing into the ground because you at least tried to land the plane is still better than crash into the ground because nobody tried it.

 

I followed the topic for a few days now, and I came to one question: Would a simmer know where the mic-switch is, and how to operate it (note: some aircraft (MD-11 for instance) have a mic switch which can be operated in two directions, but how knows that?)? Does the simmer know which frequency tune to when nobody answers on the actual frequency? Does the simmer understand radio transmissons, which in my experience, can be of very bad audio quality sometimes?

 

Does a PPL know where the mic switch is? I would answere this with a maybe. At least he probably knows that it has to be on the yoke. Probably he will disconnect the autopilot by accident, but eventually he will find it.

Does a PPL know which frequency to tune when nobody answers? I think most PPL know that 121.500Mhz is the emergency frequency. If they can tune it and set the radio to it is another question.

Does the PPL understand radio transmissions with bad audioquality? I would also answere this with yes, as you are probably used to it. (If not I invite you to come to the alps and try your luck on the radio :wink: )

 

In an emergency where the pilots are dead my money is on the PPL guy which also has flightsimulator experiance.

 

For the PPL RT exam in the UK the pass mark is 100% so yes the PPL will know what the emergency frequencies are and how to use the radio. If he/she does disconnect the AP by accident then he/she will be able to maintain control of the a/c until the AP can be restored.

(working on a frozen static port for the next VC10 update!!)

[G550flyer 1,015]

Hmmm. On my very first flight i was in a piper arrow. He gave me the controls to get a feel of things. He commented on how well I handled the plane. He sat and watched and commented on my use of trim and control. He asked had I flown before and i responded no. He proceeded to demo an approach and touch n go. After a quick discussion, he offered up an approach. As I flew the pattern he discussed power settings and altitudes(things i never bothered with). He commented on my approach picture. He asked again, are you sure you haven't flown before? He quickly discussed the landing and said he would follow me on the controls. I touched with a slight crab and he discussed rudder use during landing after the go. After the day he asked again, "tell the truth, i know you've flown before?" I responded, only on flight sim. He paused and then laughed. I told him i learned alot about flying by using flight sim. He did mention that i didn't have to be so gentle and slow with control input. He mentioned that the sim had given me a good landing picture.

 

My first jet was a beech jet 400. I was surprised at the speed response of a jet to power input. Initially i would use too much input to speed up or slow down. After a few circuits and instructor advice, power settings were easy.

 

Flight sim didn't prepare me for crosswind landings and power settings. These days i think anyone can fly and handle an aircraft with a little study. To me it's been easy. I've flown GA aircraft up to 3 and 4 engine heavies and basically they are all easy. When my son was 8, I took my fam along on vacation while i was attending my G550 quaterly sim. On the last day after the profile, i brought my fam in for a tour. My son plays FSX all the time. With a little coaching, he tookoff flew a circuit and shot a visual approach. It was a nice surprise because he didn't know it was coming. Imagine the feelings inside watching him fly with little input from me. Power settings got him too lol.

 

Honestly I think flying an airplane is very easy. Flight sim can give you the mechanics of operating an aircraft. To me the difficulty in flying is flight/risk management, situational awareness, problem solving, CRM, procedural and regulation knowledge. It's one thing to takeoff, handfly, control and land a plane. It's another thing just knowing what to do, when to do it, where to do it, and how to do it. My easiest days were being a new co-pilot/proffesional gear jerker. No worries in the world.

 

Don't let a pilot kid you lol. Flying a plane is easy/fun and on top of that someone will actually pay you to do it. As far as a leveld sim goes. If you can enter a sim and come out with a type without flying the real plane, then it's good enough.

[LHookins 3,103]

I don't understand the reverence on this forum, and other sim forums, for cold and dark. If you accept that button pushing is possible in flight, why on earth does powering up and powering down the aircraft (by pushing buttons) make it much more difficult?

 

Ask people how many times they burned up an engine on the Dodosim 206 Jetranger before they got the starting sequence correct. Or ask how many were able to get it started, but had damaged the engine to the point it needed an overhaul.

 

Try to start a piston engine in a complex aircraft like the A2A B377 Statocruiser in sub-zero (Farenheit) weather. Your ability to get all four engines running may depend on what you did when you shut those engines down on a previous flight.

 

Some of us like the various complexities of an aircraft that don't relate to the actual flying.

 

Hook

[xxJohnxx 21]

Hi,

 

For the PPL RT exam in the UK the pass mark is 100% so yes the PPL will know what the emergency frequencies are and how to use the radio. If he/she does disconnect the AP by accident then he/she will be able to maintain control of the a/c until the AP can be restored.

 

Well, nearly every PPL will know that 121.500 is the emergency frequency. However I doubt many PPL can operate the radio on a B737. Ofcourse tuning frequencies and swaping them eventually works for them too, however in such aircraft you have such a nice audio panel with so many nice lighting pull switches. And I doubt, many PPL can operate that if the crew set something there before they where disabled.

As it seems some PPL can't even handle the radios in a small aircraft.

 

EDIT: Passmark should be 75% as normal. Else you have to prove to me that it is 100%.

[G550flyer 1,015]

Thats why pilots dont eat the same food as one another :lol:

In my ops, our food is catered and served to us by the flight attendant. The whole jet including the flight mech eats the same thing lol. Even during long ground stops when we shut down and grab food, we usually eat the same thing. Now back in my military days, our aircrew ops regs stated that you could not eat the same thing. Then one day it was removed never to be seen again.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

Food-related problems do not tend to cause sudden, catastrophic loss of aircraft control, certainly not in multiple individuals simultaneosly.

 

Unless of course your FA is trying to poison you or something, i guess...

 

 

So sounds pretty safe to join the FO if he orders the lasagna.

[G550flyer 1,015]

Ask people how many times they burned up an engine on the Dodosim 206 Jetranger before they got the starting sequence correct. Or ask how many were able to get it started, but had damaged the engine to the point it needed an overhaul.

 

Try to start a piston engine in a complex aircraft like the A2A B377 Statocruiser in sub-zero (Farenheit) weather. Your ability to get all four engines running may depend on what you did when you shut those engines down on a previous flight.

 

Some of us like the various complexities of an aircraft that don't relate to the actual flying.

 

Hook

Now days aircraft are very simplified. Lets say i walked up on a dead 737.

1.I need power hmmm. O, there's battery switches on the overhead. Turn them on.

2.Hmm i need the APU. got to be a swith up there some where. let me turn it on first. I better do a fire test and radio check lol.

3.Might be a good idea to check all these breakers. O kay on hitting the APU.

4.O, a apu generator light came on, lets hit the switches. O my the jet just light up, IT'A ALIVE!!!!!

5.Hey I see the IRS'S. don't need them but i can turn them to align or nav because it will align in both. Even ATT just to get basic info.

6. hmm the FMS. YES IT'S A BOEING!! should be easy. I can fumble around and get to the pages i need.

7.ooo, its prompting to load a position on the nav page. I'll select the GPS one. Dont need it to fly though.

8.hey may PFD and MFD are dark. I see brightness knobs, yes. The heading flags are gone, must be aligned.

9.to start, i need fuel, air and ignition. Hmm look at the schematics on the air and fuel panels. Dont need fuel switches, it will gravity feed.

 

I know i'm joking but this is really how most aircraft are. Just a little knowledge, you can get things going with a little common sense.

A G550 is easy. Just look at the panels and you can figure it out. The engine start panel has selectors for left or right and the actual start buttons. One may not realize that you have to press and hold the start button for atleast 3 seconds or else it wont start. If it spools up, the FADEC will auto abort and give you a flashing SVO by the N2 and a amber starter mx CAAS because you didn't hold the button for more than 3 seconds. I've seen this happen on the road when a guys finger slipped off the start button. You have to cycle the fuel lever to clear the FADEC to get it to start again.

 

Most guys here who have flown complex add-ons could figure out most aircraft by looking around the cockpit. If it's a scare bus, you are on your own lol.

[Piggles 17]

I've got say the sniping between PPLs and simmers is far more entertaining than the OPs original post.

 

As mentioned above by a few posters, I found flying pretty easy. Crosswind landings took time, partly because I had two instructors with different approaches to technique. In the end I realized neither were wrong or right, a combination of both techniques worked really well for me, with consideration that this might be modified for type. I don't know how much of that was simming experience, though I had only dabbled with it when I started flight training.

 

On the other hand I've seen 17 year olds get in planes and fly them easily with no apparent sim experience. Some of those may have had parents that flew though, so it is hard to judge if it was really new to them.

 

Still none of that is the same as jumping into the cockpit of a 737 with no previous flight experience and nobody in the other seat in an obvious emergency situation, well at least not in my limited mind frame. That is all it is about, nobody is trying to put down anybody, or make out flying is harder than it is. It is simply would simming only prepare you to take the controls of a plane in the air for the very first time all on your own?

 

If as some posters have insisted it is all entirely theoretical, so what they are really saying is 'could I fly a CAT D sim' based on my ngx experience, sure you could, go book an hour in one and enjoy it! (It shouldn't cost much more in the UK than hiring a light aircraft for an hour).

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Food-related problems do not tend to cause sudden, catastrophic loss of aircraft control, certainly not in multiple individuals simultaneosly.

 

Meet me out in PHX and I'll treat you to a 'berto's burrito. You haven't lived until you've tried one, but unless you're near a restroom later, catastrophe will surely follow.

 

No joke.

[kevinh 409]

Ask people how many times they burned up an engine on the Dodosim 206 Jetranger before they got the starting sequence correct. Or ask how many were able to get it started, but had damaged the engine to the point it needed an overhaul.

 

Try to start a piston engine in a complex aircraft like the A2A B377 Statocruiser in sub-zero (Farenheit) weather. Your ability to get all four engines running may depend on what you did when you shut those engines down on a previous flight.

 

Some of us like the various complexities of an aircraft that don't relate to the actual flying.

 

Hook

I was talking about cold and dark, i.e. from power off. Starting engines is a different matter, but in the NG it's fairly straightforward and foolproof, compared to starting a JetRanger or B377 engine. The fuel control in the 737 is on/off. No need to "milk" the fuel valve to control EGT.

 

I occasionally start from cold and dark, or shutdown to it, but once you've done it a couple of times the novelty wears off. I don't get any satisfaction from reading a checklist to myself. However, I would never want to load a sim with the engines running and a good engine start simulation is one of the things which separates an excellent addon from a merely good one.