Its disappointing that this thread, like many here on Avsim where a tragedy is concerned, turns from the first handful of people paying their respects to the individuals that lost their lives to agruments and debates over why it happened, not to mention the my country is better than yours because we dont allow this or that.

 

Its a repeating them here that you can see comming as soon as one of these threads start. I remember the Air France crash post went the same way. First few posts condolences were made, then the thread turned into arguments about possible pilot errors, why Boeing is better than Airbus or visa versa, etc., etc.

 

It was a very sad thing that occured the other day and its also very disappointing imho some of the stuff that was posted in this thread instead of just paying respects and leaving it at that. I dont feel this is the right place and/or thread to discuss laws, gun control, who's opinion is right or wrong, how things are done in other countries, or death tolls from similar tragedies.

 

May those souls that lost their lives rest in peace.

 

Any why shouldn't we discuss these issues? They are very serious questions in our world today. Of course we are all sorry for those lost and extend our condolences but that doesn't mean we aren't going to express opinions on the state of society and events that led to this. You can have your opinion but in my view this is all perfectly normal and expected.

I think it's important to remember here that no two people are the same. There are those many people who will see a tradgedy like this and not want to say more than paying their respects to the victims and not want to get bogged down in the issues just yet, it's not a comfortable subject to talk about, and it doesn't really make it easier for them to see motives and that posted up. Then there are others who see a tradgedy like this one, and all they can think of is how this could happen, how it can be prevented and what they can do to stop something like this ever happening again. 20 innocent young children were murdered, that's going to invoke quite the range of responses from a range of people, that's what you get when you come to a forum and engage with different people from many different backgrounds, up bringing's and who are all wired in different ways. I don't think it's fair to anyone on here to say either "How can you discuss such a tradgedy so close to the time it was carried out?" or vice versa "How can't you discuss the issue at a time like this?" / "How can't you see issues need to be addressed?"

 

We all respond differently to tradgedies of this scale, no one way is the right way to respond. For those of you who simply want to pay their respects do so, for those who want to discuss a solution / remedy, then you're also free to do so, as long as it's done in a respectful manor.

 

Regards,

Rónán O Cadhain.

 

 

Any why shouldn't we discuss these issues? They are very serious questions in our world today. Of course we are all sorry for those lost and extend our condolences but that doesn't mean we aren't going to express opinions on the state of society and events that led to this. You can have your opinion but in my view this is all perfectly normal and expected.

 

Any arguements, debates or opinions expressed here cant change what happed and wont change the course of what could, can and will happen in the future the next time a similar tragedy occures like this. If this forum had the ability to do so, then I would be all for it. As it stands Avsim isn't a governing authority where we can debate or change laws concerning things like gun control, security, laws, etc. So essentially anyone can come in here voice there opinion, defend it, argue, bash or debate it, but at the end of the day it wont change anything going forward. More than anything it can leave some people with unfavorable opinions of others who voice strong opnions and try to convince others that theirs is the right one.

 

Too me all the debating over what is right or wrong and how things should be handled going forward just tarnishes the fact that a bunch of small children and a few adults needlessly lost their lives and rather than everyone who wants to particpate in paying respects, the thread deviates into other issues that the Avsim forum cant contol.

 

That's all I was getting at and thanks for letting me "have" my opinion and your definately right, this type of discussion was expected. Every thread like this brings out the armchair laywers, politicians, activists, and if its an aviation related tragedy, the armchair pilot who could have done better and explains in great detail why and how.

 

But as I said, folks here can beat issues to death and nothing will change from it. The time spent would be a lot better used expressing it in public hearings and debates where the voice can be heard and might actualy have the chance to make a difference, rather than waisting it on a computer flight sim forum where it probably wont really make a difference.

Just an aside, but if anyone develops a dislike for me based on political beliefs good riddance. There are some folks here that have a 180 degree view of things from me I quite like and hope to meet someday. Neither here nor there but yeah.

There is less per-capita gun crime in the UK than the US, but then there's a knife attack every four minutes in your country--more than 130,000 a year--and five fatal knifings a week in England and Wales alone.

 

That may be true. The majority of the UK population would I think like the solution to that to be that anyone found carrying a knife in a public place without a sensible reason [e..g on the way home from a shop, as part of a bona fide fishing or tool kit etc] should be sent to prison. Unfortunately, we have a legal profession that is resistant to that kind of eminently sensible arrangement and because the judiciary are independent, there's very little even the Government seems to be able to do about it.

 

What nobody wants is that everyone has the right to carry a knife around the streets to defend themselves......

 

 

That may be true. The majority of the UK population would I think like the solution to that to be that anyone found carrying a knife in a public place without a sensible reason [e..g on the way home from a shop, as part of a bona fide fishing or tool kit etc] should be sent to prison. Unfortunately, we have a legal profession that is resistant to that kind of eminently sensible arrangement and because the judiciary are independent, there's very little even the Government seems to be able to do about it.

 

What nobody wants is that everyone has the right to carry a knife around the streets to defend themselves......

 

What's next? Outlaw fists?

Just an aside, but if anyone develops a dislike for me based on political beliefs good riddance. There are some folks here that have a 180 degree view of things from me I quite like and hope to meet someday. Neither here nor there but yeah.

+1

Indeed, the world would be a very dull place if we all had the same beliefs and opinions....

 

Regards,

Ró.

I think you are confused about what you are talking about. Automatic pistols can only be held in the U.S. by the military, the police or individuals with a specific license for that weapon. They are going to be very expensive and difficult for the private citizen to obtain.

 

If you are referring to a semi-automatic pistol... then you are ignorant in your "awareness".

 

I stand corrected. Semi-automatic pistols have only one purpose, to kill people rapidly.

 

 

I stand corrected. Semi-automatic pistols have only one purpose, to kill people rapidly.

 

Strange. I own 20 and have never killed anyone. Along with millions of others.

What's next? Outlaw fists?

 

You are unlikely to kill anyone with your fists. The same can't be said of a knife.

 

We are talking about people who take knives out on a Saturday night to clubs & bars or are found hanging around with a knife in quiet streets where muggings are frequent. You tell me what the justification is for allowing that?

I carry a knife every where I go just like my dad, grandad etc. Criminals do criminal things. You can pass all the laws you want criminals don't care. If they did there would be no kidder as its illegal. I understand what you're saying I just have no desire for government in my life. Freedom is dangerous. I accept the danger it beats the alternative. But I'm a crazy Texas rancher living in the wild Wild West so what do I know.

But I'm a crazy Texas rancher living in the wild Wild West so what do I know.

 

For you they are just tools of your trade, Necessary part of life, I completely recognise that.

You are unlikely to kill anyone with your fists. The same can't be said of a knife.

 

We are talking about people who take knives out on a Saturday night to clubs & bars or are found hanging around with a knife in quiet streets where muggings are frequent. You tell me what the justification is for allowing that?

 

I think the answer there is discretion on the part of law enforcement, It's quite obvious to most if a person has a knife for legitimate reasons or not. As a Scout Leader I'd often have a swiss army knife in my pocket, I intend no trouble with that. Those who hang around corners of dark alleys, and go to clubs and pubs with knifes cannot say the same, particularly if they're under the influence of alcohol. There are legitimate reasons to have a knife on you person, and there are illegitimate reasons to have one and I trust the Gardaí would be able to determine that, that's what they're paid for. There's no one rule fits all here.

 

The same applies to guns, my father owns a rifle for killing foxes that attack the sheep, it's a necessary tool for him, I do not own a gun as I have no use for it, as do the majority of the population. Having a gun doesn't necessarily make you intent on carrying out evil deeds, it meerly presents you with a means to kill, be it for useful purposes or not. The question here isn't if guns have a place or not, it's a question of how do you ensure that guns do not get into the wrong hands, and that those with guns are mentally sound and capable of using them correctly.

 

Regards,

Ró.

But as I said, folks here can beat issues to death and nothing will change from it. The time spent would be a lot better used expressing it in public hearings and debates where the voice can be heard and might actualy have the chance to make a difference, rather than waisting it on a computer flight sim forum where it probably wont really make a difference.

 

Yea I agree that nothing we say here will make a difference but I've accepted my relative powerlessness to change the big things in this world so discussing it with others is the next best thing. Everyone here is dealing with it in their own way.

 

 

We all respond differently to tradgedies of this scale, no one way is the right way to respond. For those of you who simply want to pay their respects do so, for those who want to discuss a solution / remedy, then you're also free to do so, as long as it's done in a respectful manor.

 

Regards,

Rónán O Cadhain.

 

Very well put. As always Ronan you are a great voice of reason and diplomacy in a forum where some of us, myself included, find it hard to be objective and unbiased at times.

Just an aside, but if anyone develops a dislike for me based on political beliefs good riddance. There are some folks here that have a 180 degree view of things from me I quite like and hope to meet someday. Neither here nor there but yeah.

 

+2

 

This is a great forum because of the differences in cultures and views