You know when you listen to real ATC and the pilot contacts the approach controller and the controller gives him the runway to land, altimeter and the latest ATIS identifier, how does the pilot know what STAR to use for that runway? Will the ATIS message tell them? Will the previous controller told him? Or will the pilots have that all prepared ahead of time?

 

I'm asking this because when I fly into airport and I get the runway information for landing, I have no clue what STAR to use because I don't know which one the right one is. It only helps using software like FS Commander because you can visually see the STAR approaches that us relevant to your position, but in a real aircraft I doubt they have that luxury!

 

Thanks!

Use the final waypoint as your reference, find that waypoint within a STAR at your destination, use that star, if there is more than one with the waypoint in it, then you have a choice.

ATC assigns the STAR, either while you're enroute or during the initial IFR clearance

But FSX's IFR atc doesn't work with FMC, and for know the runway by VFR atc, you have to be very close to the airport, too late for select a STAR.

 

Me, i look at the winds and guess the runway while cruising, and select my star.

But FSX's atc doesn't work with FMC, and for know the runway by VFR atc, you have to be very close to the airport, too late for select a STAR.

 

Me, i look at the winds and guess the runway while cruising, and select my star.

 

yeah, but I meant when flying online like on VATSIM.

 

Use the final waypoint as your reference, find that waypoint within a STAR at your destination, use that star, if there is more than one with the waypoint in it, then you have a choice.

 

If its really that easy then I have nothing to worry about then! Thank you!

Hi. I've made quite a few tutorials about flying on Vatsim, and part 2 is about route planning, including sids and stars.

 

I asked a question similar to yours expressing my doubts as to what to use when getting close to your destination, there are some very helpful simmers here, of course you could very likely be directed by ATC anyway and guided to pick up the ILS. but I am rather more naive than yourself so it took me a while to get the gist of what to look for.

I use ProATC/X which simply tells me which SID and STAR to use. Nice. Saves a lot of time figuring it out myself.

Think of SID and STAR as the start- and endpiece of your route.

 

|--SID--| + |--------enroute---------| + |--STAR--|

 

In Europe most SIDs and STARs are connected to airways. Airways are used most of the time during the enroute segment. So you can think of SIDs as small side-streets that are connected to the motorway (the airways).

 

When driving along a motorway to get to a certain house, you want to get off the motorway at the correct city. You naturally pick an exit that is connected to the motorway you are on. In example, you cannot magically pick an exit that is on a parallell motorway on which you are not currently driving.

The same thing is true for SIDs and STARs.

 

So how do you know which one to pick? I'm afraid you will need to study some charts (like on Navigraph) or have a route planning tool like Flightsim Commander 9 to really understand the connections between the nearest airways and the local SIDs and STARs. Flightsim Commander is really neat this way - it can show you all the SIDs at your departure airport all at once, and you can easily see which departure is the most logical in regards to the general direction you will be flying to get to your destination airport. Pick the one that suits you the most.

 

If you are in the US, you start your flightplan with your chosen SID. If you are in the EU, you start your flightplan with the *last* waypoint of your chosen SID (because it is connected to a motorway - you tell ATC where on the motorway you want to get on it - you dont mention the smaller city streets).

The answer can depend on the country you're flying in.

 

In the UK STARs end at a hold from which an approach can be made to any runway. The choice of STAR is determined by the airway being used. For example at Heathrow (EGLL) there are several STARS via Bovingdon:

 

BNN 4A for arrival via L15, L10, & N615

BNN 1B for arrival via (U)Y53

BNN 1C for arrival via M605

 

There are also two other STARs, BNN 1D via the KENNET way point and BNN 1E from LAM VOR.These two are to facilitate the transfer of traffic between terminal holding facilities. They are for use only as directed by ATC and must not be used for flight planning purposes

As stated above, the easiest way is to use FSCommander, because when you click on a STAR or SID, it immediately appears on the map. The alternate is to use charts, but with the chart programs I have, for a large airport like LAX, you have no idea which to choose and you have to scroll and open a certain number before you hit on the correct one. As far as I know, neiter the standard FSX planner (which does not have STARS), nor the FMC for aircraft like the PMDG 737 NGX will give you any indication on which one to choose.

 

The other possibility is to fly to the end of the flight plan (or in the case of the FSX planner) close to the airport and ask ATC to vector you to a runway. As far as I know, the default FSX ATC does not use STARS.

 

Making a flight plan with FSCommander is a breeze: you choose the starting and ending airports, then choose the SID, STAR and transitions by clicking on the choices on-screen that show their paths on the map, and click on the ones you want, then save the flight plan as FSX, PMDG or a number of other formats. For example, I programmed the PMDG NGX 737 Tutorial 1 flight plan EGKK-EHAM in about 30 seconds, except for the altitude limitations, which you can add to the FMC after you load the flight plan.

 

Henri

Here's an excellent video tutorial (for those who hate reading....) I posted a year or two ago as this question continues to be posted -

.

 

Best regards,

Jim

You are actually asking a couple of questions:

 

What are the active departure and arrival runways for your proposed flight?

What are common real-world SID/STARS for those runways?

What is the best way to determine the correct SID and STAR?

 

I recommend FlightAware.com for a great real-world flight plan between two cities (USA).

I entered departing KLAX (Los Angeles) and arriving KSFO (San Francisco)

 

A sample flight plan from a real world Skywest Airlines flight:

 

VTU5 RZS BSR BSR2

 

 

This translates to

 

SID: Ventura 5 Departure with San Marcus (RZS) Transition

STAR: BigSur2 with Big Sur transition

 

You can get a 30 day free trial of the very fine AivlaSoft Electronic Flight Bag (EFB), which will dazzle you. It can use real-world NOAA weather, Vatsim Weather, Rex Plus or Rex Essential weather, or FSX weather.

 

EFB makes things incredibly simple and easy. Combine with your choice of Squawkbox or FSInn (I prefer FSInn) to talk with Vatsim ATC and you will find that you are able to make great selection of both departing and arrival runways, particularly if the airports at both ends have ATIS information showing up on VATSIM. ATIS will give you the current weather and arrival/departure runways for a given airport. Other NOTAMS (Notice to Airmen) that have specific instructions for your airport(s) as well.

 

EFB has a function where you enter in your departure and arrival airports and you can then overlay the SIDS and STARS for a given airport and runway. You find a SID and STAR that most closely overlay your planned flight route (shown on a map within EFB) - and or you can use FlightAware and obtain what the real world planes are doing.

 

Unless winds are calm, your RUNWAY will usually be the one that most-closely matches the winds. If the Winds are 360 at 10mph, you would expect runway 36 for takeoff or landing. If the winds are 180 at 10, you would expect runway 10. Sometimes the winds are crosswinds and there is no direct match. EFB will give you a list of suggested runways based on the actual winds.If there is no ATC online, determining the runways becomes a guessing game. You can get onto Vatsim and ask if anyone knows the active runways at a given airport.

 

If you look into EFB, I think you will be astounded at the many ways it makes your flights go better, from preflight to taxi, departure to landing. I regard EFB as a program that has repaid its cost daily.

 

I never get lost on taxiways, and it even shows other planes (AI or real if you're on Vatsim) on the runways, taxiways and gates. You see your plane moving on the taxiway. You cannot get lost or make wrong turns at an airport. Look at it, you'll be happy.

 

You're right, ATC will be giving you both your departing and landing runways -if- they are online.

 

Example for departing runway:

 

ATC: Delta 9777 Readback correct. Push and Start at Pilot's discretion, expect runway 25 Right, call for taxi. Information Echo is current (current ATIS for departure runway is "ECHO".

 

Example for arrival runway:

 

ATC: Delta 9777 Radar contact 3 miles north of Carmel. Maintain current altitude, continue the BigSur arrival, expect the visual for runway 28 Left. San Francisco altimeter 30.92

 

Things are a bit more complicated if ATC is offline. Then it's more a guessing game for the active, especially if winds are calm.

 

Tip: LAX (Los Angeles) typical 99% of the time departing 25R and 24L

arriving 25L and 24R.

 

San Diego Arriving and Departing runway 27. Only has one runway.

 

Las Vegas usually landing 25L departing 25R Sometimes the 19's are in use. Note: NO ILS approach for the 19s - use RNAV.

 

Los Angeles has noise abatement after 9pm local time, some of the SIDS are not available in late hours. Other airports may have similar restrictions.

 

How can you learn more about the actual procedures? There are free online websites as well as paid sites. I like Navigraph for the actual procedures. Note that SIDS vary according to which actual runway you depart from. Many of them use Fix/Radials as navigation markers. These are NOT picked up directly when you insert the SID into the FMC, you usually have to manually enter the FIX position (example Santa Monica at LAX is "SMO", then the Radial (usually 160 Radial for the typical SID I fly).

 

So the departure printed out on paper might say-

Fly runway heading 250 until crossing Radial 160 at SMO (Santa Monica) then turn left to HDG 220 wait for vectors from ATC.

This means you take off and fly straight ahead on 250 HDG till you see the green dash lines for the FIX you entered manually into your FMC for Santa Monica (SMO) R160 (the 160 Radial). Once you cross those green dash lines, you turn left to new heading 220 and continue on that heading until the ATC gives you the vector (new heading) to fly to the LAX VOR.

 

Note: Sometimes the ATC may override the procedure for spacing / safety reasons. In that case ATC instructions override the published procedure.

I use ProATC/X which simply tells me which SID and STAR to use. Nice. Saves a lot of time figuring it out myself.

 

But it's so much more fun planning the route yourself!

 

In the USA, if flying big jets... the easiest way to make you own route is go to skyvector.com. For the flight plan enter your origin space destination and click Add. It will draw a nice pink line on the map, then select Word Hi chart tab in the upper right. And then drag the line to NAVAIDS and connect with airways to your destination. There's a really good chance that the last navaid you put on your route will connect to a STAR at the airport. Then either use right click on airport @ skyvector, or go to aeronav.faa.gov and find the terminal charts, pull those up and browse the STARS until you find the one with a navaid that lies on your roue. Once you get the hang of it maybe takes 5 mins total.

 

Of course there are easier ways like simroutes to get routes, or FlightAware to see real world routing... but I prefer to make my own routes.

 

You might get something different if online flying. But expect to be assigned a Departure Procedure/SID and a STAR from ATC... especially if flying between two Class B airports. If not you'll be able to get away with direct or mostly direct routing.

Wow, thanks everybody! Lots of great replies.