Just for keeping the record that Martin compiled with regards to issues never cleared up by PMDG on the JS41 , I think it is good to have a post here as PMDG keep on deleting the post if posted under their sub-area. as to why we can only but speculate.

 

So for those trying to find the details of the deleted posts over at PMDG, here is the details compiled by Martin.

 

--------------------

 

 

#1 - CAP mute function sholud inhibit only L OIL PRESS, R OIL PRESS and ELECT red caption outputs to the attention getter and triple chime, however it seems it inhibits all red captions (tested with engine fire).

#2 - Every red caption should be accompanied with a triple chime and every amber captions with a single chime. This not works in every case. Examples: smoke test switch on FO's side illuminates TOILET SMOKE without triple chime, anti-skid switch set to off illuminates A-SKID caption without single chime.

#3 - TOCWS not activates any warnings when advancing the power levers or by pushing the test button if the gust lock is engaged

#4 - EMER LTS amber caption not illuminates when both generators are online and emergency lights are set to off

#5 - ELEV and R ENG amber indication lights above right engine anti-ice switch are not working. If I turn on anti ice and shed any of the buses these lights will never illuminate (for comparison if I shed the left essential busbar, L ENG light will illuminate)

#6 - Flood light requires either of the battery switches to be turned on however it is connected directly to the left battery busbar, so it should work also if none of the power sources are turned on.

#7 - CONT DISC amber caption not illuminates when either ROLL or PITCH disconnect deveice has been activated

#8 - Situation: pressurization is in manual mode, manual controller is set so that the cabin altitude is either not climbing or descending. If I change the FLOW control settings (on air conditioning panel), the cabin vertical speed remains unchanged. For example if I increase cabin flow rate, the cabin pressure should increase and the cabin altitude should descend because the outflow valve positions remains unchanged (i.e. they're in manual mode). If the cabin is descending this works as expected (descent rate is affected by FLOW control settings), but not in the case if it's climbing or at level.

#9 - When the pressurization system is in manual mode, sometimes the overpressure relief does not work correctly, and you can acquire differential pressures well over 6 psi (indicated up to 7psi). I could not reproduce this problem exactly; you should play with closed outflow valves and different flow rates right at the 6psi limit.

#10 - If you reach cabin altidtude of 14500ft the electro-pneumatic outflow valve automatically closes to mantain this altitude. You can achieve higher cabin altitudes by switching to manual mode and opening the pneumatic outflow valve with the manual knob. In this case if you press the DUMP button, why the cabin altitue descends back to 14500ft rapidly? The DUMP switch controls only the electro-pneumatic valve, which is already fully closed in manual mode, so the cabin pressure should not increase! In the other way: why the cabin altitude can not be increased over 14500ft in manual mode with the DUMP switch activated?

#11 - If generators (or one of them) are online and I turn off both batteries, the BATT and GEN amber indicators above the switches will turn off as there's no any problem

#12 - If generators are online and I turn off either battery, the BATT indicator will illuminate above the relevant switch. However no ELECT amber indication will appear on the CAP

#13 - If I turn off both generators in flight there will be no red ELECT caption on the CAP or red attention getters on coaming panel to indicate there are only battery power on the aircraft.

#14 - The electrically operated unfeather pumps can be operated if there's no power on board.

#15 - Operating the FUEL USED pushbutton should show the used fuel amount on the FF/FU indicator, not on the FUEL QTY indicator

#16 - The fuel used indicators show the fuel amount used from the left and right fuel tank (if you turn on crossfeed, one of them will increase faster than the other). Is it sure that it should not show the fuel used by the engines?

#17 - L and R OIL FLAP green indicators are not working on CAP

#18 - When one engine is shut and xfeed system is working, the fuel drain is equal at both fuel tanks, however according to the manual fuel can be provided by alternately feeding from each tank.

#19 - If you set the FIRE SYST test switch to FAULT on FO's side panel, the L or R OVHT amber captions illuminate on the CAP. These captions indicates overheat in zone 2 of the engine, not system detection fault. They should illuminate when the same switch is flipped in the other way (simulating engine fire and overheat).

#20 - If I remove all power from the flight deck, the hydraulic system pressure indicator and the brake pressure indicators are stop working but the reservoir contents and emergency system pressure indicators are continue.

#21 - Landing gear audio warning is not operating when IAS is below 145KT, power levers are on flight idle, and gear is not down and locked

#22 - Landing gear audio warning should cannot be cancelled by pressing the mute button, when it is activated because of gear and flap position.

#23 - If hydraulic pumps are off, the hyd reservoir can be emptied by using the brakes and then the brakes will work no more - but the brake pressure indicator continues to show pressure when the brakes are operated.

#24 - Ground spoilers are deploy only during landing roll. According to AOM they should deploy when armed, weight-on wheels switch is in ground position, and power levers are in ground range, so they should deploy (for example) during rejected takeoff also, but they don't.

#25 - Ground spoilers automatically retract when power levers are set to flight idle. They should only retract when power levers are advanced forwards of flight idle (or spoilers switch is set to off).

#26 - SP INHIBIT white caption on CAP not come on when the spoilers are set to off

#27 - According to AOM, the L and R ENG captions over the engine/elevator anti ice switches will come on, if the related anti-ice valve fails to open. These valves are possibly operated with electrical power (?), so these captions maybe not need to come when the engines are off, but all electrical systems are online. Either way operation is surely incorrect, because in above conditions if I turn on both switches, the L ENG caption will illuminate, the R ENG will not.

#28 - Setting the L and R AIR DATA heater switches off will turn off the stall vane heaters, which should cause the L and R STALL amber captions to illuminate on the CAP

#29 - TAT caption on overhead panel's ice protection section will not illuminate when air data heater switches are off and the weight-on-wheel switch is in flight position (e.g. during flight). Also, shutting either of the electrical buses will not cause this caption to come on.

#30 - If I shed the left essential busbar the left outboard windshield heater stops operating. If I shed the right essential, the right outboard, left and right inboard heaters will stop. Is it sure, that the left inboard heater is connected to the right essential busbar?

#31 - The inboard windshield heater heats the right side of the front windshield (from the captains side of view) the outboard the left (you can check this if there are icing conditions and you operate just one one of them by shutting the other's electrical bus). Is this correct? The outboard heater should not heat the side windows? Are the side windows not heatable?

#32 - In icing conditions and with the windshield heaters are off only the front windows will be contaminated with ice, the sides are not - even if the plane is not moving, so relative wind is not relevant. Looking the plane from the external view seems all windows are filled with ice, including side windows.

#33 - Failure of both Symbol Generators should result in a total loss of EFIS displays. If I shed the right essential electrical bus, then set the SG reversionary switch to the right, the left displays are still operating.

#34 - Turning SG reversionary switch to either side not causes to display amber SG1/SG2 texts to appear on the EADI (unlike in the case of the AHRS reversionary switch, which works well).

#35 - Turning DADC reversionary switch to either side not causes to display amber ADC1/ADC2 texts to appear on the EADI (unlike in the case of the AHRS reversionary switch, which works well).

#36 - AHRS still operates without any problem, even if the inverters are off, so no AC power is generated.

#37 - Altimeter's milibar value is always rounded down (e.g. 29.91 inHg is displayed as 1012 mbar, however it's 1012.87 mbar, so should be displayed as 1013). This could increase the error of the altimeter if you're setting it by mbar pressure values.

#38 - If I remove all power from the flight deck, the OFF flag appears on the main electrical altimeters, but they are still functioning without any problem.

#39 - FCS still operates without any problem, even if the inverters are off, so no AC power is generated.

#40 - Autopilot's bank limit mode is not operating, it still turns with 25 degree bank whether the limit mode is selected or not

#41 - Yaw damper cannot be turned off with the control column's A/P OUT switch. Neither the 2 presses, nor the 3 seconds hold not working

#42 - Moving AP/TRIM PWR switch to off does not turns the yaw damper off

#43 - Moving AP/TRIM PWR switch to off does not remove ALT SEL's amber ARM caption from the flight director's control panel, if it is the only one which was selected

#44 - Yaw damper disconnection not initiates audio warning ('cavalry charge')

#45 - If I don't wait for the extinguishing of the YD OFF amber caption following by a yaw damper disconnection, but immediately turn the yaw damper back to on, the YD OFF caption will freeze and remains illuminated

#46 - If I don't wait for the extinguishing of the AP DISC red caption following by an autopilot disconnection, but immediately turn the autopilot back to on, the AP DISC caption will freeze and remains illuminated

#47 - If TCAS control page is selected on the RMU turning the tuner knob simultaneously alters the data on the main screen also (for example if I modify the TA DISPLAY setting from AUTO to MANUAL with the tuner knob, the COM1's temporary frequncy also decreases/increases by one on the main screen)

#48 - ELT's indicator light should flash instead of continuous operation when the ELT is on

 

 

Most of them are just "this indicator lights up because I flipped that switch" like problems, they would be soooooo easy to fix...

 

And here are some other, more minor issues, if it wasn't enough:

 

#49 - New red or amber captions does not illuminate at maximum intensity when the CAP is dimmed

#50 - Single chimes should be repeated every 5 seconds until it's cancelled by pressing the attention getter, however it can be heard only once

#51 - TOCWS not activates any warnings when the flaps are in transit and have not achieved the set position yet

#52 - Stick pusher function cannot be disabled by pressing one of the four STALL indicator switches on the coaming panel (also L STALL and R STALL amber captions does not illuminate on the CAP)

#53 - Stick pusher always works, even if there's no hydraulic pressure on board

#54 - In flight, Air Data Computer is in flight mode, so test mode should be disabled. This means L and R STALL TEST switches should not work in air, however they do.

#55 - Standby artifical horizon still operates if the STBY INST PWR switch is set to STBY and both battery switches are off. This case the standby battery busbar is switched off so the standby instruments should be left without power.

#56 - If the GPU is on, but the cross-tie busbar is isolated with the BUS TIE OPEN switch, ground power should be fully isolated from the electrical system, however the ammeter still shows 670A load on the GPU.

#57 - After starting the first engine, with the GPU set to on, if you set either generator online, the GPU should be isolated (green GPU ON light should be off, GND amp load should decrease to zero) and the non-essential busbar should be de-energized (NON ESS BUS amber light should illuminate). If you turn on the second generator the cross-tie busbar should be isolated (green BUS TIE CLOSED light should be off) and the non-essential busbar should be re-energized. The current consumption is also wrong with both generators and GPU online: the GPU shows 670A and the generators also show 190A and 240A. If I turn off the GPU, it's current will decrease to 0 but there will be no increase in generator current.

#58 - Cross tie busbar will not be closed upon selecting either engine on the START MASTER switch. The BUS TIE CLOSED light will come up during the start, but it should be related to the START MASTER switch, not to the start sequence.

#59 - Prop sync switches are not working - no effect on RPM when turning them on

#60 - Condition levers should adjust RPM between 95% and 100% in flight (from TAXI to FLIGHT positions - so all operable lever range). Only if the power levers are in beta mode should be adjustable between 72% and 97%

#61 - Unfeather pumps are still working if the START MASTER switch is not in the AIR position

#62 - For reduced torque takeoffs you can set the torque with the SET TORQUE knob at the lower left corner of the engine indicators. The torque should be adjustable between 60% and 100% but it can be decreased below 60%.

#63 - Oil cooler flaps have no effect on oil temperature

#64 - According to the manual to close the LP fuel valves the battery busbar must be energized if you use the switch on the roof panel, but the emergency busbar if you use the condition lever. The valves can be closed by the condition levers even if the emergency busbar is shut.

#65 - There is no difference in fuel pressure when standby fuel pump or if motive flow is used

#66 - Fuel pressure should change depending on crossfeed valve position

#67 - If one engine is shut and I turn on the standby fuel pump on the working side, then I open the crossfeed valve, the fuel pressure will not increase on the non-working side

#68 - If crossfeed is set, and both engines are fuelled from the left tank why fuel is consumpted from the right tank also? Is this the suction effect of the fuel flowing?

#69 - Pressing the landing gear audio mute button not causes the audio mute select button light to come on

#70 - Hydraulic system pressure indicator shows approx. 1800 psi during normal operation. Then how can the brake pressure indicators show 3000 psi, when I fully apply the brakes?

#71 - You can adjust VOR2 (NAV2 system's) course with the course knob on the left Instrument Remote Controller if VOR2 is displayed on the left EHSI (by pressing V/L button). However, as per the manual, the left controller always adjusts the NAV1 system, and the right always the NAV2 system, so VOR2 course should be adjusted only from the right remote controller, even if it is displayed on the left.

#72 - EFIS test buttons are not working

#73 - If I dim the EADI completely it should appear in the EHSI's display. Sometimes it works, sometimes it not (e.g. EADI will not appear on bottom screen). Sometimes the EADI will be displayed on both screen simultaneously. Maybe this problem depends on if the mouse wheel or mouse click was used for turning the knob.

#74 - If I shed the right essential avionic bus the NAV2 system still operates, however it's attached to this busbar. For example, VOR2 navigation is still possible if it's displayed on the left EHSI.

#75 - CDU's MODES switch works opposite as it should: it should be in normal mode if it is turned clockwise, and in emergency if it is turned anti-clockwise.

#76 - Pushing the FCS CONTROL button does not cancel the selected flight director modes.

#77 - Loss of the left essential busbar does not turns the yaw damper off, however it's supplied from it

#78 - If FL is selected for the TCAS's intruder altitude mode, it does not revert back to REL mode after 15 seconds

#79 - There's no difference in AUTO or MANUAL traffic advisory display modes of TCAS

#80 - There's no resolution advisory function of the TCAS

 

 

I really understand that this isn't a full priced product of PMDG's, but I think most of these problems can be solved within a few days of work, it would really worth the effort.

 

Márton Takács

When did PMDG ever promise to produce a 'perfect' JS4100 ...

 

If the vender doesn't wish to work on it anymore, then so be it..

 

JS4100 is a great plane just as it is .... you want perfection go buy a Real JS 4100 simulator...

Since you insist on making this ridiculous claim that we're breaking some huge promise by posting this laundry list of supposed issues over and over again...

 

1. Development on the J41 is finished - the product is nearly 4 years old. I suspect many of our customers would be quite upset by us taking developers off of the current 777 and 747 projects to go back and work on a 4 year old product. The J41 was never intended to be a hardcore study sim that has every single piece of minutiae that is in a maintenance manual. It costs $45 and it is designed to be something that works well when flown in the standard way with the normal procedures - it is not something to practice for your J41 type rating on, work abnormal emergency flows, study to be a J41 mechanic, or anything else that leads someone to create that sort of list of supposed issues with the product.

 

2. "SP2" as was stated on our forum was to be an FMS gauge update that fixed a couple of rare navdata and flightplan issues along with a couple of new spb files for one of the 2D panels that could also experience a rare graphical issue during certain dusk and dawn lighting situations. I have these files and I routinely send them to customers who ask for them at support. There was talk of a change to the VC to reduce shimmering around the EADI and EHSI bezels, but this was before GPU/AA tech and monitor resolution got to the level they're at today where it eliminates the issue for most users. To be clear - that bezel *is* there on the real aircraft, this is not some sort of mistake on our part. The NGX has extremely similar geometry in it and we haven't heard a single complaint because the GPU settings take care of it now.

 

3. Any other items I've seen you and others claim are on some list for SP2 were never planned to be part of it. This includes flashing triangles in the VC (this is an FSX animation overload issue that is system specific and not something we can "fix" except by removing the icing and rain effects from the windshield, which is what the Config Manager's "Medium" setting already does), holds for the FMS (was never even listed as a feature and we were clear it was not modelled), etc. SP1 *did* include a config file that makes the Reality XP weather radar work in that spot on the panel for those who wanted to do that and I suspect this is what was referred to in that earlier version of the manuals - we did not claim we were going to add a realistic weather radar to a $45 product, trust me. Our position on this has never changed - it is impossible to do it realistically in FSX and it will not be happening.

...PMDG keep on deleting the post if posted under their sub-area. as to why we can only but speculate.

 

Perhaps because PMDG kept telling you that it wasn't going to implement them?

 

...

..., but I think most of these problems can be solved within a few days of work....

 

That suggests a lack of appreciation of the resourses required to make the changes and then to re-test to ensure they haven't introduced any undesirable side-effects.

Since you insist on making this ridiculous claim that we're breaking some huge promise by posting this laundry list of supposed issues over and over again...

 

$45...

 

Is it relly ridiculous to claim as a customer if a product isn't about what is promised? I'm relly disapointed this addon and $45 is relly too much to pay - 4 years old as You said. Remove Yours information for icing effects because it's not work. It is very easy to say that system that or those not work as should be is because a bug of FSX but this is not true but it easy way to go behind that reason if interesting to fix problems are lost.

 

BTW

 

An others of PMDG's product are super good. I have a few of them... Sorry my poor english.

Promises...promises...

To all these people complaining about the lack of a SP2. Try asking M$ for SP3 for FSX, see how far you get, i think we need that much more!

 

It's 4 years old, time to let it go, it's still very much usable, the only issue that annoys me is the engine volume, but it's no problem, just turn down the sound in FS.

Sounds to me like the OP is working on a "revenge agenda" by posting this. I don't see any purpose for this thread other than to be the megaphone for relaying his displeasure with the level of work put into the J41, which is still a great simulation. Furthermore, it sounds to me like he neither appreciates or understands what is involved with updating an aircraft such as this.

I do think it's kinda hard criticizing PMDG. You can read that sentence in any way you like. :smile:

 

The OP has a point in my eyes and I really wanted to e.g. see the icing stuff and corresponding graphic errors fixed. I was also looking forward to a working hold feature. The current button is inop.

 

I don't see any trouble with posting a bug list. I actually think it helps the dev. Any.

 

The SP2 for the J41 shares the fate of a 'final SP' for the MD-11. It was communicated to arrive '(maybe) after the NGX'.

Indeed a very comprihensive bug list that the developer should be thankful to receive free. It is a bit strange that an addon which holds a lot of potential is left as it is. Compared with many other quality addon developers it seems to be more common to keep development open and that adds customer satisfaction and certainly sales.

thanks everybody, at least here we can keep the laundry list, as I am sure many flightsimmers sometimes might refer to this or is looking for an answer and that could be helpful. That was the only reason for posting it.

 

No revenge agenda at all as a matter of fact I have the JS41 uninstalled and the list is purely for those that still buying it or still going to buy it as you can see from PMDG forum every now and again there is a "new" guy enquiring about some things.

 

Personally I think it is a good thing for transparency, unlike what some want to read into the motive that is absolutely not there. So if the shoe fits, wear it, otherwise just use this as information as that was what is was for.

 

 

 

mgm

please let me correct you. You qouting me above as if I said "but I think most of these problems can be solved within a few days of work...." Sorry that was part an parcel of Martins original post, so please do not qoute me out of context. You will see there is a clear cut ----------- in the post. Above was what I posted, below was what the original poster Martin posted. I am not that ignorant neither do I have that lack of appreciation. As said above it is about the detail I feel should remain for references and could help others, even though some dont want to see that that way but that is their problem.

 

 

 

 

BOTTOM line: It was posted to keep a "reference" for any flightsimmer that might have issues. That all folks..! so PLEASE no need to get all worked up for nothing...

 

Hopefully moderators can leave the post that was purely posted for reference and neither was it posted to start a new discussion on the SP2 or how PMDG have let down customers etc etc etc. We all have accepted we will not get SP2 long long time ago.

please let me correct you. You qouting me above as if I said "but I think most of these problems can be solved within a few days of work...." Sorry that was part an parcel of Martins original post, so please do not qoute me out of context. You will see there is a clear cut ----------- in the post.

 

If it was a quote you should have put it in quotes. The words I quoted appear immediately above your signature.

A small but vital detail to add. The questions on another SP didn't come up yesterday but actually started right after SP1 (back in October 2009) as the PMDG forum will show. So, yes, the plane now is some 4 years old. :mellow:

 

As a suggestion. Since there are files available to fix at least some issues (e.g. rare FMC CTDs), why not supply them as on the other PMDG releases? Means here. http://www.precision...ds/updates.html

Compared with many other quality addon developers it seems to be more common to keep development open and that adds customer satisfaction and certainly sales.

Oh yeah like Captain Sim, still new patches years and years after release... That's not cool though of course better than never fixing anything.

 

PMDG has been just perfect with their 737NGX, 747 and MD-11, all of them got pretty much all the bugs fixed soon after release instead of years later.

If it was a quote you should have put it in quotes. The words I quoted appear immediately above your signature.

 

Sorry my fault for not using not proper etiquette - I think that is how you spell it, but most probably I am wrong, sorry English is not my first language