Looking to the future of FS9

[Jimmy RFR 406]

Bear with me, I've rewrote this several times as my thoughts keep running wild on this topic. :lol:

 

As someone who is a lot newer to flight simulation than many of you here, one of the greatest surprises was just how much freeware exists. Much of it is produced to a very high caliber, whether it be scenery or planes, and represents an immense amount of labour undertaken for no other reason than a pure love of the hobby.

 

The other realization, was just how fragmented and scattered such freeware is. One can spend hours scouring this forum and others, scouring this library and others, looking for what is simply available. When you're new to the scene, most of the best and free material goes completely unnoticed.

 

In my view, this needs to change. There simply exists so much freeware for FS9 that if all development efforts, both in freeware and payware, were to freeze, there would still be more than one person could ever take in.

 

We can't blame the payware developers in slowly abandoning the FS9 platform; they are making products for profit, and in doing so, they have to compete with each other in making items that are 'heavy on the eye-candy', so to speak. FS9 has certain limitations, and no-one should be blind to that.

 

But perhaps, with the slow move of the payware developers from the scene, there is an opportunity to utilize FS9 as place to embrace and showcase the massive amount of freeware that exists.

 

I think the community as a whole could benefit from a central site that not only acts as a repository for files, but also acts as an educator as to what already exists. It could encourage and foster new freeware development, and perhaps even encourage payware developers to continue the trend of releasing their older work as freeware. Much of what has transpired for FS9 thus far has been purely out of a love for the hobby, there's no reason why we couldn't turn that into something far, far greater than it's individual components .

 

I'm putting my name into the volunteer hat!

[vololiberista 205]

Re the above :-

http://www.freewarescenery.com/fs2004/whatsnew.html

[Jimmy RFR 406]

Re the above :-

http://www.freewares...4/whatsnew.html

 

That site is a huge asset, probably a lot of work to maintain, and is the first place I check when looking for scenery - but of course it still only covers one portion of FS freeware. I think that one of the points that I was trying to get at is that the fragmented nature of the freeware scene presents a large barrier to entry, and it would be great to somehow overcome that.

[ViperPilot 81]

Re the above :-

http://www.freewares...4/whatsnew.html

 

Thanks for the fabulous link... I forgot about that website!

 

Jim's right; there is so much FS 9 freeware out there! Not a day goes by where I read about a new airplane, or see a new place that would be fun to visit in FS, that I go looking around at the various sites for those exact items... and invariably find them!

 

IMHO, FS 9 still has a long life ahead, and it still offers a very enjoyable experience... at least it does for me.

 

:smile:

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Hi Jim,

 

Thank you for your encouragement!

 

I think the community as a whole could benefit from a central site that not only acts as a repository for files, but also acts as an educator as to what already exists.

 

That is exactly what AVSIM is and has been for a long while. Using the search function will reveal an underground volcano of hot material.

 

 

It could encourage and foster new freeware development, and perhaps even encourage payware developers to continue the trend of releasing their older work as freeware.

 

That too is nearly exactly what is being proposed and pursued here. We are making note that you volunteered, and I am fairly certain that at some point Ian will be able to use all the help he can get.

 

Kind regards,

[Jimmy RFR 406]

Using the search function will reveal an underground volcano of hot material.

 

Avsim is certainly a wealth of education, but sometimes of course like any forum, the shiny new stuff gets all the attention (and the posts!). I've spent a lot of hours searching through old posts, let me tell you! Some of the best tips that have resulted in my some of my favorite freeware planes & scenery have come from topics that aren't necessarily titled 'best freeware'. ^_^

[Reason 20]

I just treated myself a dreamfleet 727, a 2005 software used in a 2003 sim and I definitely support this idea.

[HaraldG 559]

But perhaps, with the slow move of the payware developers from the scene, there is an opportunity to utilize FS9 as place to embrace and showcase the massive amount of freeware that exists.

 

Jim, you have said much better what I wanted to express in my post above. Not to mention the freeware that will be developed in the future - I'm convinced it will.

 

Harald

[Cyanide72 24]

FS9 has certain limitations, and no-one should be blind to that.

 

Anyone remember this?

 

http://www.simflight.com/2011/02/02/boeing-stearman-by-proptrash-a-new-record-for-fs2004-models/

 

As far as I know, many payware developers are/were aware of bypassing the FS9 65,000 polygon limit, but choose not to develop for FS9 anyway. I know exactly zilch about modeling in FS9 so I can't really offer much of an argument, but would I be right in saying that the aged FS9 platform cannot handle the high fidelity programming a la PMDG?

 

I suppose you're right when you say payware developers make products for profit, money does talk and I fully accept that. However when it comes to eyecandy or visual detail I think it's not a good idea to mention those FS9 limitations simply because it's been proven that they can be bypassed.

[Dillon 2,208]

Thanks everybody. I only used WoAI as an example. There are lots of other freeware packages - scenery - AI aircraft - flyable aircraft - whose authors are no longer active in FS9 or in the hobby so what I had in mind was a pretty broad range of possibilities. There are also companies who have issued former payware as freeware and perhaps others might be persuaded to do so if those products are no longer being marketed.

 

What I have in mind is that if a member of the community has the skills and tools to modify/improve any of these products, that they would be able to upload what they've done to AVSIM without it being a legal or ethical issue.

 

Here's a different example. About two years ago somebody figured out a way to get rid of those horrible triangle landing lights for AI aircraft that so often spoil the realism of landing in fog or reduced visibility. He shared the technique with us and a number of us carried out the necessary modifications - the result was wonderful. But we didn't have permission to share our work and so each person invested hours and hours of work doing the same thing to the same models. All we were doing was improve an already excellent freeware model to get rid of a limitation due to FS9 and which the original author probably didn't know how to fix - the solution had been found long after they were released. But instead of being able to share the modified files so everyone could use them, we each did it individually for our own use because we didn't want to do the wrong thing by uploading them. But the fact is that the authors of most of the files I did modifications on haven't been active in the FS9 community for many years and would probably have gladly given permission because they long ago lost interest in those models and have moved on to other things.

 

Well, let's see what Tom has to say and if he gives the green light, I'll see what I can do to implement it.

 

Ian I applaud this post. The bottom line for me (and I don't know if you got this from my inquiring in another thread I started) is we need updated paints for the WOAI models that were used. I'm talking FSPainter, DJC, AIA, and other models (WOAI's Delta Package didn't work for me). Currently based on my WOAI traffic I can't update the paints for my NWA package let alone United/Continental. I have currently half the fleet with Delta repaints and my A330, DC9, and 757-300 birds with NWA's livery. I'd like to see painters revisit these models and what's happening is when developers move on the work is abandoned. I see this mostly with AI packages. Airlines are constantly changing if if nothing else we need repaints for the existing AI models which are quite satisfactory.

[jetlag 65]

What say you my friends?

 

Ian,

 

I say I am 100% with you.

 

I only wish I could contribute something myself...

 

Cheers,

 

Phil

[scianoir 610]

Hi Ian!

 

You also have my full support for your idea, as I am in the middle of a re-install of FS9 onto my new rig. This is my fourth install of FS9 since it appeared and although I have a system that could probably run FSX (which I also have and will install) quite well, like many I have invested far too much in FS9 to abandon it, apart from which it performs beautifully. Yes, we moan a bit when developers produce another nice addon for FSX/X-plane etc and we are told by them that they will not be producing an FS9 version, but speaking personally, I really wonder if it matters that much as there is so much available already. Certainly I have so much good scenery now (payware and freeware) that I could probably fly to a couple of airports every day for more than a year without revisiting any of them during the course of the same year and enough addon aircraft to fly a different one each day for at least 2 years! Add to that the excellent level of realism now attainable in the overall FS9 world with the right combination of background addons (UT, REX, FSGenesis, FSGlobal, My World, etc) and the superbly smooth frame rates on the latest systems, I feel that we have the virtual aviation world at our fingertips even as things currently stand with FS9, without any more addons ever appearing! Yes, it would be great to have more (and a slow trickle of new payware still continues as my credit card would testify!) and the addon junkie part of me does get a bit envious when I see something nice appearing for another platform, but if I am sensible about it I have more than enough to keep me going well beyond the day I retire from my day job!

 

Kind regards,

Bill

[3Green 80]

eula could be a issue.

[A320driver 19]

Anyone remember this?

 

http://www.simflight...-fs2004-models/

I have that...and it is quite a work of art! Still alot that could be done with FS9. Ah well.

[jeroen79 0]

Hi Guys

I have a question and if the answer seems to be yes, I am willing to volunteer the time to see if we can make it happen. First let me state the problem and then I'll ask the question.

 

The question I have is this. As developers move on to other things, is it fixed in stone that once they leave the sim or the hobby, there is no way of users continuing to improve their contributions and posting them on AVSIM for the enjoyment of the community? If people who are have given us their contributions over the years gave permission, shouldn't it be possible for those of us who want to, to modify those files so they are continuing to be improved and can add that element of "newness" to the sim for a few more years.

The answer is Yes.

If a developer is willing to share his source material then anyone with enough skills could continue to develope it.

Legally a developer is free to donate his work to the community unless he does not fully own some parts of it.

 

An example (IIRC) is Eric Cantu who donated the source for an unfinished addon to the community when he left to do other things.

If there's a positive response to my suggestion, then I'd be willing to put something together that would reassure AVSIM and the individuals doing the uploading that what they were doing is legal and ethical.

One thing Avsim could do is reserve a spot in the library where developers can upload source material.

 

Then we would have to promote the idea of 'setting free' your work when you 'retire'.

And give thanks and positive attention to those who do.

This will also help to keep freeware developers onboard the FS9 train.

 

To keep payware developers interested in FS9 we would have to keep buying their FS9 products.