Thanks for the info everyone. Interesting discussion

Yes and no. I only say that because in the UK, 70-80% of the flights I've flownon, the crew didn't select the landing lights on until just prior to finals or until on final approach itself. At times when I've been at an airport (UK), I've often not seen landing lights illuminate until the aircraft was cleared to land (unless it was a late clearance, in which the crew had already selected the lights on).

 

I'm not sure if this was what you're observing, but some aircraft (probably most) have seperate dim/bright and wing/nose/something controls for landing lights. On some aircraft with some airlines (I know a few did this with MD-80's), the wing lights would be turned on below 10,000' and the nose would be turned on after recieving landing clearance. Other airlines and aircraft could use some other combination of this such as nose first, then wing or dim first, then bright.

This is out of the FAR/AIM from the AIM section. It is only a recommended SOP from the FAA and remember each airline has its own SOP requirements that may differ from the FAA's recommendation.

 

I have highlighted in bold the areas recommended use.

 

AIM: 4-3-23. Use of Aircraft Lights

 

c. The FAA has a voluntary pilot safety program, Operation Lights On, to enhance the see-and-avoid concept. Pilots are encouraged to turn on their landing lights during takeoff; i.e., either after takeoff clearance has been received or when beginning takeoff roll. Pilots are further encouraged to turn on their landing lights when operating below 10,000 feet, day or night, especially when operating within 10 miles of any airport, or in conditions of reduced visibility and in areas where flocks of birds may be expected, i.e., coastal areas, lake areas, around refuse dumps, etc. Although turning on aircraft lights does enhance the see-and-avoid concept, pilots should not become complacent about keeping a sharp lookout for other aircraft. Not all aircraft are equipped with lights and some pilots may not have their lights turned on. Aircraft manufacturer's recommendations for operation of landing lights and electrical systems should be observed.

 

http://www.faa.gov/a...aim0403.html.23

 

John

Yes and no. I only say that because in the UK, 70-80% of the flights I've flownon, the crew didn't select the landing lights on until just prior to finals or until on final approach itself. At times when I've been at an airport (UK), I've often not seen landing lights illuminate until the aircraft was cleared to land (unless it was a late clearance, in which the crew had already selected the lights on).

 

Very much correct, it really is down to the SOP at the end of the day, but my employer's SOP is in line with what you mention.

The big catch, however, is that it is required by the FARs because the 121.306.b.5 exemption ("or any other portable electronic device that has been deemed safe by the operator") extended to you is subject to those limitations provided by the operator. So, it's not required by the FAA, rather, discretion is given to the carrier, and backed by the FAA.

 

One more thing worth adding,

 

if you have an OM that is validated by the regulator (FAA or CAA in other countries), then it becomes the law effectively.

If FAR regulation does not explicitely state, that langing lights must be on under 10k ft, but a hypothetical Ozargheny aerowaylines OM states that it has to be on under all circumstances, then a pilot found not to have them on would be under the same scrutiny as if it were a FAR.

One more thing worth adding,

 

if you have an OM that is validated by the regulator (FAA or CAA in other countries), then it becomes the law effectively.

If FAR regulation does not explicitely state, that langing lights must be on under 10k ft, but a hypothetical Ozargheny aerowaylines OM states that it has to be on under all circumstances, then a pilot found not to have them on would be under the same scrutiny as if it were a FAR.

 

SO in a nuttshell, airline guys stick to SOP's in all instances unless you want your head chopped off and signing on as you'll be out the door - also may be worth noting certain airspace in addition has particular requirements and 'house-keeping' if you should, an example is London TMA etc but that's going rather off topic.

 

Edit: A Typo, it's too late and brain isn't functioning after 6 sectors...

Does anyone know if Southwest turns its landing/tail lights on below 10,000 or 18,000?

 

Landing lights ON at 10,000 feet and below

Wing Lights ON at 18,000 feet and below

Logo Lights ON at 18,000 feet and below

 

At or above FL 180 = Strobes and Nav Lights only.

Landing lights ON at 10,000 feet and below

Wing Lights ON at 18,000 feet and below

Logo Lights ON at 18,000 feet and below

 

At or above FL 180 = Strobes and Nav Lights only.

 

 

^^^^This. Also the runway turnoff lights are on at 18,000. It is airline SOP.

 

Regarding the flashing landing lights: It is only on the -500's and it is to increase awareness. They stop flashing below 500ft.

Hey guys, here's the scoop on SWA procedures for lights.

 

Taxi on ground: When crossing runways, we turn on all lights and strobes, unless it may distract other planes crews in the area.

When we taxi on to the runway, we turn on the runway turnoff and taxi lights. When cleared for takeoff; Fixed and extend landing lights, runway turnoffs and strobes. After takeoff, we usually retract the outboard lights upon flap ups call. typically around 190-200 kts and accelerating.

 

Climbout: Leaving 18,000, all lights off including logo lights, except strobes and nav lights. Unless we are in cloud, and the strobes are distracting; then we turn them off till clear of clouds.

 

Descent: Leaving FL 180, we turn on Fixed inboard landing lights, logo lights if evening time, and runway turnoff lights.

 

Typically, most extend the outboard lights, as we configure for landing. IE typically, as we slow through 210kts. As mentioned, if left extended they can get damaged at higher speeds.

 

Hope this helps.

Best,

David

Thank you David, just what I was looking for.

I do just as David does except I turn on the outboards when cleared to land sort of as a way to remember.

Last question (I think), now that I have the experts here.

 

Do most Southwest 737-700's not have any voice callouts? I am using the PMDG repaints that have the airline specific ini files. But none of them have the voice call V1, V2, 2500, minimums, or the 50-40-30 etc. callouts. Is that what the company selected or is the ini file mistaken?

V2 isn't an option on the 737 (for an auto-callout)

 

V1 is an option, but in the PMDG there's 2 options available for V1 callout. one by the Aircraft's avionics, and one from the First Officer.

 

I'm not familiar with Southwest, but if they don't have the Avionics computer-generated V1 call, then it would be procedure for the Pilot Monitoring/Pilot Not flying (PM/PNF) to say it (usually at V1-5). There's an option to set this in the FMS.

 

It's quite possible that the 2500ft call isn't there. The minimums usually is, or if it isn't, then again, it's PM/PNF territory.

 

I'v heard a few 737's with just a 50 call, then nothing for 40 30 20 10. Others with a mix of 50 a few missed, then a 30 and 10 etc. It'd be pretty unusual to have no RA altitude call outs, and even more unusual to have the PM/PNF not calling outV-speeds and minimums if the GPWS doesn't say them.

You are right I meant the V1 automated callout. All the Southwest repaints from PMDG have no callouts at all. Except the copilot calling out V2 and rotate. No automated minimums, no 50 or anything at all. I was wondering if this was an option they selected when buying their airplanes.