Does anyone know if Southwest turns its landing/tail lights on below 10,000 or 18,000?

Hopefully you'll get an actual SWA pilot to confirm this, but I have flown SWA a lot and I am 99% sure that it's at 10,000'.

My recent experience (as a passenger) was that the landing lights cme on and they announced that we were passing 10,000' and we had to turn off electronic devices. I don't know if they were lying about it being 10,000'

 

Bill Rowe

As best I can tell, the movement to have them on under 18k instead of 10k was strong a few years ago, but has lost momentum. This is purely biased opinion though, so who knows.

To my knowledge, 10000ft is a standard altitude worldwide for turning on/off the landinglights, is it not?

To my knowledge, 10000ft is a standard altitude worldwide for turning on/off the landinglights, is it not?

 

It is, but there was a move in the USA a while ago to move it up to 18,000. In theory, increase the period of visibility to reduce risk of collisions. It never seemed to catch on though.

Interesting discussion. I have asked this question on the AOA forums , with no answer yet, because on the flight work videos they turn them on/off at 18k. I have always used 10k.

The retractable lights are about 200 IAS or when able (they like to be ripped off), the fixed wind lights are at 18000. I personally know a SWA pilot and that is SOP. the retractables go out and on when turning final on landing.

It's 10,000

Does anyone know why Southwest has flashing landing lights? I've noticed that a few times on some of their aircraft.

This is an option and adds greater visibility.

A fair few of the Qantas fleet also have the flashing wig-wag landing and tail lights

I don't know if they were lying about it being 10,000'

 

They were and they weren't...

A lot of airlines will say it's a regulatory requirement, but it's not entirely. The only mention of it in Part 121 (what the major airlines like SWA are regulated by) is 121.306. It essentially states that no portable electronic devices may be operated on an aircraft except, portable voice recorders, hearing aids, pacemakers, electric shavers, or any other portable electronic device that has been deemed safe by the operator.

 

There's no mention of 10,000', there is no requirement for particular devices to even be in Airplane Mode, or any of the other random things different airlines add in there.

 

The big catch, however, is that it is required by the FARs because the 121.306.b.5 exemption ("or any other portable electronic device that has been deemed safe by the operator") extended to you is subject to those limitations provided by the operator. So, it's not required by the FAA, rather, discretion is given to the carrier, and backed by the FAA.

 

A little history:

The mention of 10,000' came from an Advisory Circular (AC 91.21-1), which probably stemmed from some safety meetings with the FAA and industry. The AC noted that, while the discretion is given to the operator, the operator should have procedures in place to minimize interference of the device in critical phases. As the AC notes, however, this interference is not only the radio/nav risk everyone cites, and is also one of an interference to attention:

"The procedures, when used in conjunction with an operator's program, should provide, as a minimum, the following:

[...]

 

(6) Prohibiting the operation of any portable electronic devices during the takeoff and landing phases of flight. It must be recognized that the potential for personal injury to passengers is a paramount consideration as well as the possibility of missing important safety announcements during these important phases of flight. This is in addition to lessening the possible interference that may arise during sterile cockpit operations (below 10,000 feet)."

(emphasis mine)

 

Sorry for the potentially overwhelming amount of information, but it's part of the discussion we're having regarding a new concept in FAA-land called Aircraft Access to SWIM (people in the meeting were saying it's not possible below 10,000' and I had to step in and correct them, and then defend it).

 

The retractable lights are about 200 IAS or when able (they like to be ripped off),

 

Mostly I see their extension on slow speeds approach as this can prolong lights lifetime. But FCOM says that they can be extended at any speed, so I don't think they can be easily ripped off.

To my knowledge, 10000ft is a standard altitude worldwide for turning on/off the landinglights, is it not?

 

Yes and no. I only say that because in the UK, 70-80% of the flights I've flownon, the crew didn't select the landing lights on until just prior to finals or until on final approach itself. At times when I've been at an airport (UK), I've often not seen landing lights illuminate until the aircraft was cleared to land (unless it was a late clearance, in which the crew had already selected the lights on).