Please let it go, but...

 

 

 

You said that the $5 might be additional revenue to offset download costs of future products

 

No, perhaps i didn't explain it well.  I was speculating that PMDG may use it as a revenue stream; they only release products every two years or so.  In the large void between the releases they still have to pay for the bandwidth needed for customers to download products, but not at the same level as during a release.  Again this is pure speculation on my part and nothing that PMDG have said or i have heard from a friend who knows RSR's dog walker.

 

 

I said when you purchase the future product, what ever you pay will include the price for distributing your purchase

 

I was asking how you know that and how many times does this mean you can download?  Assuming that the download cost is within the purchase price, it probably is, but who knows...that's right ONLY PMDG, not you and not me.  My further question was how many times does this entitle you to download the product, how much cost do you think they (as in PMDG) put onto the purchase price to cover downloads?  If they only cover the cost on the initial download, because, you know the development cost of the aircraft makes up the rest of the price, then surely they would be well within there rights to charge?

 

 

  Wrong, you dont have people speculating on the costs of software development.

 

No i didn't, i was saying that you are assuming that the cost of distributing the software is held within the purchase price, but you can't put a figure on that because you don't know how much PMDG are adding to cover bandwidth, nor do i.

 

 

 

 You have people speculating on the costs of software distribution via the internet.   Some of the leading companies in this space have had their prices quoted as a known fact.

Again...sigh...known fact, interesting, you know how much a commercial company would pay for commercial distribution of commercial software?  The prices i have seen are all "I pay £0.0001p from Amazon per Pb"  The use of the subjective "I" in these posts should indicate that you as an individual will pay less than a commercial company would.

 

 

 

They are companies that will provide the same or better level of service than what pmdg uses currently and obviously at far less cost

That's a pretty bold thing to say and entirely your (and i expect others) opinion, it's not mine.  I am happy with the service.

 

 

 

The cost of the service to deliver the download is the only relevant thing here, not how much it costs to build the software.

The two are linked, to make this simply:

If PMDG charge £50 for the aircraft in question.

Lets say £45 of that is development costs, profit etc that leaves £5 to cover the download.  We (both you and I) don't know either one of those figures, so everything else is pure speculation.

 

 

No, perhaps i didn't explain it well.  I was speculating that PMDG may use it as a revenue stream; they only release products every two years or so.  In the large void between the releases they still have to pay for the bandwidth needed for customers to download products, but not at the same level as during a release.  Again this is pure speculation on my part and nothing that PMDG have said or i have heard from a friend who knows RSR's dog walker.

Wrong - Many providers allow flexible plans for fluctuating traffic levels.

Again...sigh...known fact, interesting, you know how much a commercial company would pay for commercial distribution of commercial software?  The prices i have seen are all "I pay £0.0001p from Amazon per Pb"  The use of the subjective "I" in these posts should indicate that you as an individual will pay less than a commercial company would.

Wotan, I work within the industry and I've already told you the figures. 

The two are linked, to make this simply:
If PMDG charge £50 for the aircraft in question.
Lets say £45 of that is development costs, profit etc that leaves £5 to cover the download.  We (both you and I) don't know either one of those figures, so everything else is pure speculation.

Actually what me and several others have suggested is that a surcharge of $1-2 dollars could be added to a product, which would allow the user 100 downloads or so of the product. 

You, or I , or any large company will pay the same rate for amazon S3 storage.   Depending how much data we use depends on how much a discount we get.

 

    So a large user/large company will get a volume discount that pmdg may not.

 

    In any case, it is easy to see the pricing, they dont hide it.  You can go here and choose amzon s3 on the left.

 

    http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/calc5.html

 

    If they want 40gig storage for their products with redundancy and '99.999999999' reliability and 1TB downloads per month it will cost them $124 per month.    Or only 12 cents per GB download including all overheads.  If they only do 400gb per month it will cost $49.50 or 12 cents again.

 

   If they in fact do far more like 10TB per month it will cost them around 13cents.

 

   This is a world class distribution system, you only pay for what you use not an upfront amount that you may or may not use.  many fortune 500 companies use it.

 

   The pricing is clear and it shows that distribution costs today are marginal.

 

 

Actually what me and several others have suggested is that a surcharge of $1-2 dollars could be added to a product, which would allow the user 100 downloads or so of the product. 

I think that would be a bad idea, such a download service is totally useless to majority of people who properly back up their addons, it would be totally unfair to make everyone pay for service that most don't need. 

I think that would be a bad idea, such a download service is totally useless to majority of people who properly back up their addons, it would be totally unfair to make everyone pay for service that most don't need. 

 

You say the 'majority' of people but Ryan has already said that his day is filled with people asking for download links. This is a common issue, regardless of your own personal views about it. Additionally, the vast majority of the other developer companies for flight sim follow this model and I'm sure you don't complain or feel cheated when you buy something from aerosoft, UK2000 (add name here) etc etc. Additionally, if this was something PMDG were concerned about they could make it optional. What ever the case, the main points I made was that the service is vastly over priced, outdated, and should be based on a 'number of downloads' rather than timeframe. 

I think that would be a bad idea, such a download service is totally useless to majority of people who properly back up their addons, it would be totally unfair to make everyone pay for service that most don't need. 

"I think that would be a bad idea, such a download service is totally useless to majority of people who properly back up their addons"

 

I agree if its a minority then its just a small resource hog.and  another reason it should be free

 

You say the 'majority' of people but Ryan has already said that his day is filled with people asking for download links. This is a common issue, regardless of your own personal views about it. Additionally, the vast majority of the other developer companies for flight sim follow this model and I'm sure you don't complain or feel cheated when you buy something from aerosoft, UK2000 (add name here) etc etc. Additionally, if this was something PMDG were concerned about they could make it optional. What ever the case, the main points I made was that the service is vastly over priced, outdated, and should be based on a 'number of downloads' rather than timeframe. 

"You say the 'majority' of people but Ryan has already said that his day is filled with people asking for download links."

+1

Lots of people should-ing all over themselves in this thread. The title is misleading too. It should be renamed "I do not understand having to pay a small fee to redownload my software when they gave me many days to make a 5 minute backup"

 

Just do a simple, quick backup and it is all solved and you will be serene and happy. The sky will seem a little bluer. The birds will sing a little sweeter. And you will think to yourself - "I feel great. I'm going to workout and tackle those household finances - and do it today!"

Perhaps the pricing structure should be changed, after all you don't buy the software, you buy a licence to use the software.

If I have been banned how can I still post? My origional intent wasn't to stir up angst or derision. Sorry if I have emotions. It's called being human, people have them.

 

Unless I'm imagining things, it appears the OP has met the business end of the forum ban hammer, given that his account no longer exists. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along, please.

 

Patrick Boynton

I also get annoyed with some of PMDG's antics. But what can I say, they make the stuff, it's their rules. 

I hope the members of PMDG read this. They could learn a lot. Up till now their business model is flawed ( according to a lot of posters). They must be losing customers like crazy. I mean the same people that don't like their model continue to buy their products and scan the forums awaiting news of their next release. While I get you all have your opinions, you are all basing it on absolutely no facts known of PMDG's cost and Tabs has explained their position. If this nightmare of paying 4.95 because you didn't run the gauntlet of making a back up copy of your product, right click copy and paste ( phew exhausting), why do you buy and use their products? Sounds very similar to the ones that threaten not to buy their products because they don't release enough timely info on future products.

I've seen many of these topics before with underlying theme "give me something for nothing".  As a developer it has made me "shy away" of wanting to enter into the business of developing software for FSX, XP, P3D, etc.  Add to this the rampant piracy that people seem to have no care or concern about and it's yet one more reason why I do software development away from the public sector - very difficult to get paid and secure one's work/efforts.

 

In this thread I've read:

 

1.  Some wild expectations of what 3rd party developers should do and their responsibility

2.  Some rather disturbing insight to some individuals lack of accepting accountability

3.  Some really strange logic

 

As far as cost to host downloads and/or PMDG web site(s), that can range from $7/mo (unlimited bandwidth and storage running on a shared server Linux or Windows) to unmetered dedicated servers at $500/mo -- given the limited size of the FSX market, I can't imagine they would incur the expense of managing their own in-house servers intended for public access.  In fact, if you look at this page on PMDG site: http://support.precisionmanuals.com/Main/frmRegister.aspx it clearly states NOC (network operations center) facility, so they probably have a dedicated server housed at a facility (which apparently they are upgrading).

 

Since PMDG is in the business of making money and they clearly state their policy, the consumer has the choice to either accept the product/policy and buy the product, or to not buy the product.  If someone has not bothered to read PMDG's policy, then you can't really expect PMDG to be interested in one's failures?

 

Sadly, because software isn't deemed "tangible" (just one's and zero's) many seem to think it costs nothing to provide and provide again.  This is not the case.  Everything from the wire than runs into one's home carrying the electrical signals to get your data/download to storage space holding the file, to the server components, the regular server backups of those files, managing server updates, file locations, and much much more ... all costs money to maintain and keep running.  Wiring fails, connections are broken, distribution blocks get weathered, routers fail, RAID HDs and/or SSD fail (MTF), as do all other aspects of a computer/server.  To get a packet of data from A to B costs money ... it's not some perpetual system that never deteriorates and never needs attention.

 

Steam is a viable service for software distribution/backup ... but they aren't free to those who want to deploy and manage their products under the Steam umbrella.  I would love to see more 3rd party vendors use Steam, but it'll increase the cost of the product.

I hope the members of PMDG read this. They could learn a lot. Up till now their business model is flawed ( according to a lot of posters). They must be losing customers like crazy. I mean the same people that don't like their model continue to buy their products and scan the forums awaiting news of their next release. While I get you all have your opinions, you are all basing it on absolutely no facts known of PMDG's cost and Tabs has explained their position. If this nightmare of paying 4.95 because you didn't run the gauntlet of making a back up copy of your product, right click copy and paste ( phew exhausting), why do you buy and use their products? Sounds very similar to the ones that threaten not to buy their products because they don't release enough timely info on future products.

Personally, I dont think $5 is going to break the bank for anyone. Sure, it is a pita but it wont stop anyone buying the product. It sure as heck wont stop anyone regaining a copy of something they paid a lot more for.

 

I think the thread has got a little derailed on the costs but it does show, with certainty that bandwidth costs are not a lot these days. Not just bandwidth but bandwidth supplied by world class suppliers.

 

So yes, people will buy good products but that doesnt mean they cant be called out when saying its only paying for the bandwidth.

 

If that is the cost of the bandwidth, dont you think it's up to them to secure a better deal for their customers? I can get it cheap, you can, any startup can. Why wouldnt they do the best deal they can for their customers?

 

Sadly, because software isn't deemed "tangible" (just one's and zero's) many seem to think it costs nothing to provide and provide again. This is not the case. Everything from the wire than runs into one's home carrying the electrical signals to get your data/download to storage space holding the file, to the server components, the regular server backups of those files, managing server updates, file locations, and much much more ... all costs money to maintain and keep running. Wiring fails, connections are broken, distribution blocks get weathered, routers fail, RAID HDs and/or SSD fail (MTF), as do all other aspects of a computer/server. To get a packet of data from A to B costs money ... it's not some perpetual system that never deteriorates and never needs attention.

 

Very true, and the cost including all of that is $0.12c per gigabyte for a reasonably expensive system.

Didn't Rob say in a topic about the 777 that conversations about their pricing practices is against their forum rules that could lead too a ban?...

 

 

No, I didn't. I have better things to do in my life. Cheers.

 

Hope that you read  the fine prints  in contracts  before  you sign them