Once again, why do PMDG even let these threads go on so long??

 

 

Furthermore, for charging $90 and not offering your customers a 2D panel is just plain WRONG!!!

 

Is it really?  It's not like they didn't include panel info at all.  The 2D is just a compromised representation of the VC...

 

 

Once again, why do PMDG even let these threads go on so long??

 

Probably because they're dealing with the 1,000,000 tickets people submitted because they didn't RTFM...

Devil's Advocate:  So I am on a short final, AP OFF, yoke in one hand, throttles in the other...I notice an amber or red flag on the EICAS but I can't read the message or numbers clearly without switching views or moving my viewpoint.  Short final is not a great time to be pressing buttons, using the hat to move my eyes, or zooming in on a piece of a 3D panel.  I love PMDG products, but flying with a 3D panel on 2D monitors is not working for me as it greatly detracts from the realism.  I'll stick to the 737NGX :-)

 

It's funny you use an unrealistic example to prove how the vc isn't realistic. Tell me in real life, can you magically keep your eyes out on all the gauges and out the window while on short final even when you need to address a message on the eicas? No you have to move your head and look at what it says. Using the same hand on your yoke you move the hat switch to look to the right. If you can't read it then you are too far zoomed out in the first place. Also if this is such an important situation to happen, then get track-ir. 2d panels are unrealistic because it has a fixed viewpoint, all the gagues are lined up, you have none of the realism of looking in the right direction for a gauge as you would in the cockpit. There are no real cockpit scans because you are not in any real viewing position in the 2d panel either. Learn to fly realistically in a virtual cockpit and you wont go back to 2d.

Many of us don't live on this forum, so saying this makes no sense. Furthermore, for charging $90 and not offering your customers a 2D panel is just plain WRONG!!!

 

Why didn't PMDG just offer some of us $$$ back for not showing that detail in the first place? I am very happy to pay but I felt like PMDG do not care about us for its arrogant attitude towards how people play the game. It's almost like telling people they don't need a cup holder in their car because it is too inconvenient to these arrogant and slow programmers. 

 

Can you please put  the link on where pmdg  are arrogant  towards its  customers,  Considering this is  your  first post I suggest you read the forum rules  otherwise you might find your posts being  deleted.

Right, the good old RTFM. That's such a typical response from arrogant people who really don't care to help.

 

That's why Apple is such a successful company because they figured out how people DO NOT have to RTFM.

 

We are talking about a 2D panel. Show me where on their website where it clearly states the $90 do not include a 2D panel!!!

 

Just read all the posts on this thread. It's either, "where the hell you have been", "read the f*cking manual", etc.

 

If that's not arrogant, what is?

And good job apple don't design commercial airliners or training platforms....

 

 

Anyway, good point about the website! perhaps PMDG should have WE DO NOT PRODUCE 2D PANELS, GET OVER IT' on the main page. Would save everyone from pointless topics like this..

 

How many times do we have to have these kind of topics, makes all the weather radar posts seem like bliss.

Right, the good old RTFM. That's such a typical response from arrogant people who really don't care to help. 

 

That's why Apple is such a successful company because they figured out how people DO NOT have to RTFM.

 

We are talking about a 2D panel. Show me where on their website where it clearly states the $90 do not include a 2D panel!!! 

 

Just read all the posts on this thread. It's either, "where the hell you have been", "read the f*cking manual", etc. 

 

If that's not arrogant, what is?

wow   looks like your  going  to break the record  for the shortest  time  on avsim  good luck

 

Come on guys.  Just because you're used to everything being served up to you on a silver platter (unrealistically, mind you), doesn't mean that the VC is bad.  It means that you're relying on an old crutch and you're just resisting the change.  I've been there.  Welcome to 2013.  It's time to face the change.  Times are a-changin'!

 

+1  

 

I too hated the idea of using a VC years ago.  Then I forced myself to use the VC since it is definitely more realistic, and I haven't looked back since.  Change can be real hard, but if you want to enjoy the T7, then change you must!  Go for it... it's well worth it!

 

 

Right, the good old RTFM. That's such a typical response from arrogant people who really don't care to help. 

 

Which is funny because if you paid any attention, you'd have seen that I've been non-stop on the forum helping people.  Even when I've said "please read the intro manual," I've also included some guidance to fix the issue.  Don't excuse people's laziness.

 

...and you'll note that I didn't aim the RTFM at anyone.  I said it was because people weren't reading the manual.  It's not like someone asked for help and I simply said "RTFM."  Sounds less like I'm being arrogant and you're just trying to justify laziness.

 

 

 

That's why Apple is such a successful company because they figured out how people DO NOT have to RTFM.

 

Haha - yeah, not quite true.  Apple has a whole site at manuals.info.apple.com.

 

Wonder why that would be there...

 

 

 

We are talking about a 2D panel. Show me where on their website where it clearly states the $90 do not include a 2D panel!!! 

 

It's well known with PMDG, but beyond that, you'll note there's no picture of a 2D panel at all in the screenshots.

 

The buyer is responsible for researching what he or she is getting.  I'm not going to go yell at your pretty boy Apple when I buy an iPod Shuffle and only find out after the fact that it doesn't have a screen.  BUT THE SITE NEVER SAID ANYWHERE THAT IT WOULDNT HAVE A SCREEN!!!!!!!!!111!1!1!

 

:rolleyes:

Guys FSX and PMDG 777 is a "GAME" It's not an aircraft simulator. So if people want to have the 2D view in this "GAME"  you should respect that.

 

stelios

 

 

Guys FSX and PMDG 777 is a "GAME" It's not an aircraft simulator.

 

Then I guess I should go scratch all of those entries out of my logbook!  Darn!!!

 

These textures look mighty familiar, eh?  FAA approved as a simulator to log hours...

 

 

 

 

So if people want to have the 2D view in this "GAME"  you should respect that.

 

Respect goes both ways.

 

If a company says no 2D, it means no 2D.  Their direction is their choice, which should also be respected.

Guys FSX and PMDG 777 is a "GAME" It's not an aircraft simulator. So if people want to have the 2D view in this "GAME"  you should respect that.

 

stelios

Stelios, the issue is not if people want 2D panels, The issue is the same topic keeps coming up when it has been known for years that 2D panels will not be produced with PMDG products. You can find plenty of addon's that do have 2D panels, so if any one has neck problems, issues with peripheral vision., want super realistic 2D panels or any other reason to justify a 2D cockpit then they have plenty of options, just don't expect the PMDG 777 to be one of them...

I never liked the VC - the view is stuck in one place and looking around is a miserable experience - looking up at the upper panel you need to twist your head 90 degrees to look at the switches and knobs.   Maybe it's me and I may not be doing something right, but I seriously miss the 2D panel view right now.   I don't have any of the fancy trackIR or similar device.   Is there a key combination to move the view point like we see in the videos?  I looked around the documentation, found references to popup but these are just big squares appearing on the screen.    

 

Can we ask for the 2D panel back?   is that an option?  

 

Any tips, info would be appreciated,

 

Michel.

 

I don't have EZCA and I was able to get around by using the A button to toggle my views. This was the first time where I worked from First Officer seat and Captain's seat. You can also expand some of the displays. That helped me. 

Having every portion of the main panel in at-a-glance sight as well as a view of the outside is in no way more realistic.

 

Being able to flick your eyeballs quickly from one main panel area to another while maintaining  peripheral  vision of the outside view is something that the simulation cannot reproduce.    For obvious reasons, the sim cannot reproduce the physical feel of flight, which can also give a pilot some cues as to what the airplane is doing while he's staring at the ceiling.

 

I can look down at a primary instrument panel in a real airplane and still "see" the relative position of the horizon, thus I'm able to keep myself in the same desired attitude.... much like how I can glance over to my radio in the car and still keep the car on the road, even though I'm not staring out the front windshield. But this is a valid comparison for only some of the panels... peripheral vision is blotted out nearly entirely when you have to look up to an overhead panel, or down to the center pedistal.

 

Computer flight simulation is all about comprimizes. Both the 2D and 3D panel methods have aspects which could be argued make them superior to the other. It all depends on which aspects you consider more important.

 

-Greg

PMDG T7 does not include any pogo stick, refund !

Being able to flick your eyeballs quickly from one main panel area to another while maintaining  peripheral  vision of the outside view is something that the simulation cannot reproduce.    For obvious reasons, the sim cannot reproduce the physical feel of flight, which can also give a pilot some cues as to what the airplane is doing while he's staring at the ceiling.

 

I can look down at a primary instrument panel in a real airplane and still "see" the relative position of the horizon, thus I'm able to keep myself in the same desired attitude.... much like how I can glance over to my radio in the car and still keep the car on the road, even though I'm not staring out the front windshield. But this is a valid comparison for only some of the panels... peripheral vision is blotted out nearly entirely when you have to look up to an overhead panel, or down to the center pedistal.

 

Computer flight simulation is all about comprimizes. Both the 2D and 3D panel methods have aspects which could be argued make them superior to the other. It all depends on which aspects you consider more important.

 

-Greg

 

Excellent point of view