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Cost Index

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With the realistic panel configs of so many airlines (Thank you!)... can you also provide, or can anyone provide cost indexes for various airlines/routes?

 

Southern Air? Aerologic? FedEx? etc.Thanks!

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With the realistic panel configs of so many airlines (Thank you!)... can you also provide, or can anyone provide cost indexes for various airlines/routes?

 

Southern Air? Aerologic? FedEx? etc.Thanks!

Google and you might flind some lists, though do be aware that CIs will change as fuel prices go up and down, maintenance contracts are renegotiated, etc. Some airlines also authorise higher CIs to make up for delays.

 

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With the realistic panel configs of so many airlines (Thank you!)... can you also provide, or can anyone provide cost indexes for various airlines/routes?

 

I had a quick rant about this in a couple of my videos:

 

CIs change.  While many operators have a value that's a default, it's normally only used in cases where they - either intentionally or accidentally - do not provide a value on the load sheet.

 

-If the flight is delayed on departure and there's still a chance to get there on time, they'll raise the CI to go faster and get there on time.

-If they're expecting delays at the destination, they may dial the CI back to just get there at the end of the rush.

-If the flight has a ton of Premiere Members (or whatever the airline calls them), they may actually dial the CI up to get them there early.

-If the price of gas goes up, the CIs often go down.

-Certain routes will have higher CIs, while others have lower CIs (based on average revenue gained on that segment).

 

There really isn't a standard value for airlines in all cases.  Despite what many will claim here, it's not as static as many would have you believe.

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Having talked to some 777 captains, if they fly a certain route with a fixed mach number, the CI's effect becomes less significant. I know at least for 737s the CI on a majority of routes doesn't often go over 20. Soooo maybe you can use that to just toss in some CI's at random for now, or just dial in a fixed mach for cruise (which does happen in the T7)

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or just dial in a fixed mach for cruise (which does happen in the T7)

 

Particularly on the NATs.  I'm assuming this will be in someone's ETOPS tutorial, eventually.

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I had a quick rant about this in a couple of my videos:
 
CIs change.

 

You also need to talk about the CI range one of these days.

 

Way too many people in the NGX forums going all "That's because your CI is too high. You must use like 15 or 20."

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Way too many people in the NGX forums going all "That's because your CI is too high. You must use like 15 or 20."

 

haha - some of it is valid, to a certain degree, if I understand the VNAV handling of CI correctly:

Higher CIs drive higher descent speeds, which makes slowing down prior to and on the approach more difficult.  I could be massively wrong, however.

 

In the end, though, you're right - it's used too often as the answer when it shouldn't be.

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CIs vary so much. The most "realistic" way is to use a random number generator and let it pick a number for you in the range of, say, 10-90.

 

If you have a real schedule you can try plugging it into simbrief. For a given flightplan and route time it'll give it a corresponding CI. I've been pretty successful using simbrief's CIs with my route time being +/- 2 minutes from schedule.

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I had a quick rant about this in a couple of my videos:

 

CIs change.  While many operators have a value that's a default, it's normally only used in cases where they - either intentionally or accidentally - do not provide a value on the load sheet.

 

-If the flight is delayed on departure and there's still a chance to get there on time, they'll raise the CI to go faster and get there on time.

-If they're expecting delays at the destination, they may dial the CI back to just get there at the end of the rush.

-If the flight has a ton of Premiere Members (or whatever the airline calls them), they may actually dial the CI up to get them there early.

-If the price of gas goes up, the CIs often go down.

-Certain routes will have higher CIs, while others have lower CIs (based on average revenue gained on that segment).

 

There really isn't a standard value for airlines in all cases.  Despite what many will claim here, it's not as static as many would have you believe.

 

I fly freight so obviously some of those wont apply. I understand what you are saying though. I am just interested in ballpark figures on the LR, am not familiar at all with the 777 systems so would like to know what carriers are using lately. If there are any numbers for FedEx, Aerologic, or other cargo operators on the 777 I would appreciate learning what they generally use.

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I fly freight so obviously some of those wont apply.

 

eh...in some ways they apply even more.  Say someone paid extra to have something delivered at a particular time and you're running behind schedule.  Similar to the Premiere Members example, the operator will dial the CI up to compensate and cruise at a higher speed.

 

I understand what you're getting at, though, so I'll let someone else attempt to answer that.

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off the top of my head, all the 777LRF operators are scheduled operators. Sure a few charters here and there but its all planned out. The Southern Air that flies for DHL, Aerologic who does for Lufthansa and DHL, FedEx.

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off the top of my head, all the 777LRF operators are scheduled operators.

 

 

...and if you promised someone that they would get the package based on that schedule...

 

See where I'm going?  I'm not talking cargo charter or anything.  I'm talking your trucks got behind schedule, you couldn't depart on time, and you call your dispatch desk to update them - chances are, they're giving you a higher CI to accommodate that ground delay.

 

Trust me.  I've sat next to the UPS and FedEx guys in my meetings enough to not be talking out of my [rear] here.

 

...like I said, though, I'll let someone come in and give you more specific numbers.

 

Here are some basic numbers that have been out there for a while (and are rather old, probably outdated):

http://www.tradewind.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=488

 

Here's an interesting article of the factors that go into them:

http://www.airlines.org/Pages/A4A-Quarterly-Cost-Index-U.S.-Passenger-Airlines.aspx

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Hey Kyle, if the plane is running late and a higher CI is required to catch-up to schedule, do they have to redo the fuel load?

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Hey Kyle, if the plane is running late and a higher CI is required to catch-up to schedule, do they have to redo the fuel load?

 

Depends on how tightly they run fuel numbers.  Many operators factor in a certain amount of error in their fuel planning to accommodate stuff like this (contingency fuel - extra fuel en route factors, to include sub-optimal flight level restrictions, higher than forecast winds, changes in CI, etc).

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I had a quick rant about this in a couple of my videos:

 

CIs change.  While many operators have a value that's a default, it's normally only used in cases where they - either intentionally or accidentally - do not provide a value on the load sheet.

 

-If the flight is delayed on departure and there's still a chance to get there on time, they'll raise the CI to go faster and get there on time.

-If they're expecting delays at the destination, they may dial the CI back to just get there at the end of the rush.

-If the flight has a ton of Premiere Members (or whatever the airline calls them), they may actually dial the CI up to get them there early.

-If the price of gas goes up, the CIs often go down.

-Certain routes will have higher CIs, while others have lower CIs (based on average revenue gained on that segment).

 

There really isn't a standard value for airlines in all cases.  Despite what many will claim here, it's not as static as many would have you believe.

This was very helpful for me as i do get a bit thick on this subject thanks Kyle

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This was very helpful for me as i do get a bit thick on this subject thanks Kyle

 

Glad it helped!

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Glad it helped!

Yeah it did i love flying and like most my dream would be

to actually do it but i can never see that happening which is why most of us love flight sim.

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AA used 20 for Chicago-Rome one time, yea it was on a 763 but that's still pretty low.

 

The AA Boston-Rome flight is part of my favorite youtube video

 

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The AA Boston-Rome flight is part of my favorite youtube video

 

Yep and that guy's channel has many interesting vids.

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