Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Raymundo

DirectX 11

Recommended Posts

I am anxiously awaiting the release of  2.0 however, I have a question regarding video cards.  What will happen to those of us who have not yet upgraded our video cards to ones with DX11 capabilities?

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Not much, unless developers start to make 100% compatible DX11 sceneries for a 100% DX11 compatible platform you'r good to go with what you have.

Share this post


Link to post

V 2.X uses tesselation and other important DX11-only-features for terrain rendering and I'm quite sure you won't be able to run V 2.X without a DX11 card.

 

Flo

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with Flo. But, perhaps it comes with DX9 option like FsX has Dx10 option. So, you can run it with old hardware. But, I guess it'll be without those cool features and not so different than current version. Well, I am not tech guru, it's pure speculation.

Share this post


Link to post

Without DX11 V. 2.X wouldn't offer a performance gain or a visual upgrade but LM would have to do a lot of additional coding to make it run with DX9. And since DX11 cards have been around for 5 or more years now almost everybody has a DX11 card today. So what exactly would be the benefit for LM to offer a DX9 option?

It's an educated guess to say that a DX11 card will be part of the minimum requirements.

 

Flo

 

Edit: First DX11 cards actually in 2009.

Share this post


Link to post

Don't want to start a new topic but it seems to fit in here quite well:

thinking about upgrading my graphic card to a GTX770. There are 2 flavours: 2 and 4 GB of RAM.

Do you think P3D might take advantage of a higher amount of memory taking their new approach into consideration?

 

Thx!

Share this post


Link to post

2 GB is still a lot...but I would go for 4 GB if you don't plan to upgrade your GPU in less than 18 month.

XP10 already consumes more than 2 GB with detailed custom scenery and high resolution...

 

Flo

Share this post


Link to post

V 2.X uses tesselation and other important DX11-only-features for terrain rendering and I'm quite sure you won't be able to run V 2.X without a DX11 card.

 

Flo

 

And the point is? You will not see the benefit of DX11 game or sceneries (read tessellation) on a DX9 or DX10 card but you will be able to use such cards for P3D as you already can for FSX, so far no sceneries for FSX or P3D have been released by developers with tessellation in mind, so tessellation means noting for today's sceneries for FSX or P3D visually speaking.

 

http://www.nvidia.com/object/tessellation.html

 

http://www.behardware.com/articles/838-1/crysis-2-dx11-a-closer-look-at-performance-and-tessellation.html

 

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,696171/DirectX-11-Tessellation-in-Stalker-CoP-Dirt-2-Unigine-and-Alien-vs-Predator/News/

 

I hope this help with the confusion.

Share this post


Link to post
 

 

so tessellation means noting for today's sceneries for FSX or P3D visually speaking.

 

Yeah, that's not true.

 

For V2 we pass the raw elevation model to the GPU and generate the mesh on the card. If you have a powerful enough GPU, you will be able to max out the tessellation factor and get very dense mesh all the way out to the horizon.

 

Mesh (and water possibly) are where tessellation is most valuable and it will work out of the box on P3D's mesh rendering to provide sharper detail. 

Scenery also doesn't have to be designed for tessellation. It's better if it is but it's not required. 

 

Also, I expected you to run here and post the good news about vsync...

 

"Prepar3d 2.0 offers several options which allow you to control vsync as well as adding support for triple buffering to further increase smoothness. We do allow for 1/2 refresh rate vsync, as well as 1/3 and 1/4. Additionally, with vsync enabled, some graphics card drivers will dynamically adjust the vsync level to match the frame rates you are able to achieve."

Share this post


Link to post

You will not see the benefit of DX11 game or sceneries (read tessellation) on a DX9 or DX10 card but you will be able to use such cards for P3D as you already can for FSX

 

No no no! If P3D 2.0 is DX11 only, then any card that doesn't support dx11 (like the GTX285 Raymundo has) will not be able to run P3D 2.0 AT ALL or any other dx11 title for that matter.

A non dx11 card will only work if there is an option to run P3D 2.0 in dx9/dx10 mode, but I doubt there will be such an option.

Share this post


Link to post

I assume, but cant say for a fact, P3D V2 will tell you your hardware doesnt meat min requirements when trying to install if one doesnt have a DX10/11 video card. Hint

Share this post


Link to post
 

DX10 mode was ripped out of the code in P3D 1.0.

 

It's not coming back. DX11 is it. 

Share this post


Link to post

I am anxiously awaiting the release of 2.0 however, I have a question regarding video cards. What will happen to those of us who have not yet upgraded our video cards to ones with DX11 capabilities?

10 gosub checkP3D20Avail

 

 

sub checkP3D20Avail

If avail

gosub BuyInstall

Else

Return

Endif

End sub

 

Sub BuyInstall

Read forums

RTFM

Run 2.0

IF NewCardNeeded

Read forums

Buy hot new NVidia card

Else

Don't

End sub

 

C

Share this post


Link to post

It will depend on how V2.0 is coded.

 

DirectX11 can determine the capabilities of a graphics card by checking its feature levels The default levels are 11_11 (which needs the 11.1 run time), 11_0, 10_1, 10_0, 9_3, 9_2, and 9_1.

 

Whether  the application runs or not will depend on whether it's been coded to handle the graphics card's  particular feature level or not. If not then it will have to exit.

 

For example, only  11.1, and 11_0 support the hull and domain shaders needed for tessellation. If a graphics card doesn't support them there would need to be code to bypass those shaders for the application to run.

Share this post


Link to post

And the point is? You will not see the benefit of DX11 game or sceneries (read tessellation) on a DX9 or DX10 card but you will be able to use such cards for P3D as you already can for FSX, so far no sceneries for FSX or P3D have been released by developers with tessellation in mind, so tessellation means noting for today's sceneries for FSX or P3D visually speaking.

 

http://www.nvidia.com/object/tessellation.html

 

http://www.behardware.com/articles/838-1/crysis-2-dx11-a-closer-look-at-performance-and-tessellation.html

 

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,696171/DirectX-11-Tessellation-in-Stalker-CoP-Dirt-2-Unigine-and-Alien-vs-Predator/News/

 

I hope this help with the confusion.

 

The whole P3D V 2.0 is build with DX11 "in mind"...so what the hell are you talking about???

And this thread is about V 2.0 only (see OP).

 

Flo

Share this post


Link to post

No no no! If P3D 2.0 is DX11 only, then any card that doesn't support dx11 (like the GTX285 Raymundo has) will not be able to run P3D 2.0 AT ALL or any other dx11 title for that matter.

A non dx11 card will only work if there is an option to run P3D 2.0 in dx9/dx10 mode, but I doubt there will be such an option.

 

There hasn't been any game/program/whatever that is DX11 ONLY.

Normally, you just can't enable any DX11 effects like tesselation.

I doubt they will make it DX11 only as I doubt even half of the users have a DX11 GPU.

Share this post


Link to post

Looked up dx11 cards. I'd suggest looking up your specific card, but generally speaking

Nvidia: GT 430 and better

ATI: 5450 and better

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's not true.

 

For V2 we pass the raw elevation model to the GPU and generate the mesh on the card. If you have a powerful enough GPU, you will be able to max out the tessellation factor and get very dense mesh all the way out to the horizon.

 

Mesh (and water possibly) are where tessellation is most valuable and it will work out of the box on P3D's mesh rendering to provide sharper detail. 

Scenery also doesn't have to be designed for tessellation. It's better if it is but it's not required. 

 

Also, I expected you to run here and post the good news about vsync...

 

"Prepar3d 2.0 offers several options which allow you to control vsync as well as adding support for triple buffering to further increase smoothness. We do allow for 1/2 refresh rate vsync, as well as 1/3 and 1/4. Additionally, with vsync enabled, some graphics card drivers will dynamically adjust the vsync level to match the frame rates you are able to achieve."

 

 

Dear bonchie, I did exactly that, your expectations were fulfill, I ran here and posted it  :rolleyes:  , the post was hidden, you can ask Jim about it and the reason as to why he did it, no need for apologies but I'll take it... :Just Kidding:

 

It is true that you will be able to max out your card if the card is powerful enough BUT the performance will also suffer, I have Crysis 2 and I can assure you that maxing out the graphic does a number on performance, and we are talking about a today's CryEngine, you just can't add or max out a card and get the same FPS result as if you were running the sliders at middle range, what I was saying is that no matter what is V2.0 add on developers did not make their FSX/P3D's sceneries DX11 compatible, and that's what I was referring to when talking about the visual aspect, Crysis 2 was patched after released to be able to run in full DX11 compatibility mode as the game was made with DX10 features.

Share this post


Link to post

There hasn't been any game/program/whatever that is DX11 ONLY.

Normally, you just can't enable any DX11 effects like tesselation.

I doubt they will make it DX11 only as I doubt even half of the users have a DX11 GPU.

Yes you're probably right. I might be wrong about the dx11 only stuff, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post

There hasn't been any game/program/whatever that is DX11 ONLY.

Normally, you just can't enable any DX11 effects like tesselation.

I doubt they will make it DX11 only as I doubt even half of the users have a DX11 GPU.

Lockheed Martin doesn't care about AVSIM users or Computers with old tech.  P3D 2.0 is DX11 only just like P3D 1.4 was DX9 only.

Share this post


Link to post

Lockheed Martin doesn't care about AVSIM users or Computers with old tech.  P3D 2.0 is DX11 only just like P3D 1.4 was DX9 only.

 

 

3d-oublier.gif

Share this post


Link to post

Steam reports that about 2/3 of it's users have DX11 cards.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/?l=english

 

IMHO the main question is what P3D 2.0 would offer within a DX10 or even DX9 "mode"?

Wouldn't it perform and look like Prepar3D 1.4 or even worse? What would be the benefit except some people with dusty hardware would be able to run V2.0 - @12 FPS?

 

Flo

Share this post


Link to post

I think this is as close as we can get to an answer right now:

 

 

bhollis from LM:

 

Re: Directx 11.2 screens
on: July 5, 2013, 12:01

We haven't made a final decision on requirements for 2.0. The core rendering system has a solid framework in place for supporting down-level hardware. It even supports d3d10 and d3d11 cards side by side on the same machine. Undocking a view and dragging it to the d3d10 monitor triggers the effects to be recompiled at a lower shader model. If we can, we would like to support the broadest set of hardware possible. That said, the terrain improvements mentioned above do currently require d3d11. This is one of the first cases where we hit something that would require us to implement a separate solution for d3d10 or keep the legacy mesh and lighting system around as a fallback. We may eventually hit a tipping point where supporting d3d10 hardware can't be done without degrading the performance for d3d11 users or or maintaining multiple implementations of the same feature.

Prepar3D Software Engineer

 

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=2971

 

 

Cheers

Flo

Share this post


Link to post

I think this is as close as we can get to an answer right now:

 

 

bhollis from LM:

 

Re: Directx 11.2 screens

on: July 5, 2013, 12:01

We haven't made a final decision on requirements for 2.0. The core rendering system has a solid framework in place for supporting down-level hardware. It even supports d3d10 and d3d11 cards side by side on the same machine. Undocking a view and dragging it to the d3d10 monitor triggers the effects to be recompiled at a lower shader model. If we can, we would like to support the broadest set of hardware possible. That said, the terrain improvements mentioned above do currently require d3d11. This is one of the first cases where we hit something that would require us to implement a separate solution for d3d10 or keep the legacy mesh and lighting system around as a fallback. We may eventually hit a tipping point where supporting d3d10 hardware can't be done without degrading the performance for d3d11 users or or maintaining multiple implementations of the same feature.

Prepar3D Software Engineer

 

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=2971

 

 

Cheers

Flo

Thanks for that, I was looking for this exact quote earlier.

 

I hope they drop legacy support and require d3d11 cards. Focus on the future and forget about d3d9 and 10.

Share this post


Link to post

DX10/DX11 usually work on the same code path.  So you should be able to use a DX10 only GPU with P3D V2.x but will not get all the benefits DX11 hardware support (tessellation and a few other goodies).

 

As listed in LM's answer from Flo's info above ... I'd be surprised if there were any "tipping points" where LM couldn't support D3D10.  But even if they ran into road block, DX11 only hardware is cheap (GT 430 is $45 - not suggesting you use this card, just letting you know DX11 exclusivity isn't going to break the bank).

 

here is a list of DX11 GPUs: http://solidlystated.com/hardware/list-of-directx-11-video-cards/

 

I think the more difficult transition will be for those running WinXP (35% market share) which does not support DX11.

Share this post


Link to post