Why are flight simmers so rude to each other?

[magnetite 38]

For some real, unmoderated, unrestricted nastiness, you can't beat UseNet. On the other hand, you'll also find some very intelligent,and helpful comment there too.

 

I've ran into my fair share of those. Post something someone simply doesn't agree with, and the whole thread gets set on fire. Here, someone has my back, because that kind of stuff gets kept in check. Threads get locked, bullies punished, and order maintained.

 

Other places, people have a huge argument. Moderator will actually join in on the argument, take sides with the perpetrator, rather than moderate and maintain order. Admins were indifferent.

[dmwalker 611]

I assume that newbies don't read the manual because they are overwhelmed by the complexity. I know I was at first, but it's easy to do a word search in the pdf manual and find answers to most of the questions.

 

I don't know the PMDG 747 manual nearly well enough to give authoritative answers but when someone asks a question, I do a word search and, if I find the answer, I tell the questioner to read page 7-27 of the manual, for example,  and, if he or she has any questions after that, someone in the forum will be happy to respond.

 

The whole point of it is to encourage newbies to become familiar with the manual because it has most of the answers properly explained. You can spend two minutes doing a word search and get the answer right away rather than spending two minutes posting a question and waiting one to three days for an answer which may require follow-up questions.

[Oracle427 45]

Dmwalker

 

That type of response is constructive and helpful. It points them to the right place so they get the satisfaction of a response, and suggests using the correct tools as they grow and learn.

 

If they already read that section and still have questions at least they are primed with a common reference for future discussion.

[Airbusman330 300]

And while you're at it define "garbage", and explain what business you have determining what is and isn't for the rest of us ?

 

EDIT: it really does become quite plain how much the attitude/viewpoint we're discussing here revolves around ego.

I'll give an example: lets say that the A2A P51 has a bug where you can't move the radiator flaps. One person posts the bug and the developer responds by acknowledging the bug and issuing a fix. Then an hour later you have a someone posting a thread on the same exact issue even though the old thread is still on the 1st page. By the end of the day you have at least 10 threads on the same problem due to new people hitting new thread without even checking the first 2 pages of the forum, in order to combat the problem the developer makes a sticky in bold letters which apparently is ignored by those who immediately jump to create thread. After awhile you have 10 threads on the problem which resulted from laziness and then you have to read each title to get to the non redundant stuff. Being new is no excuse for laziness.

[CordoganAir 55]

Because we need to get laid  :lol:

[tonywob 4,770]

You see this sort of behaviour in practically every forum, and you can easily group users as follows:

 

1) The dad, the guy who's been around for years and everyone knows. Often helpful and chimes in on most posts. Although not a moderator, people often respect this person's opinion and they are very knowledgable.

 

2) God, the guy who's on the forum and believes everyone should worship him. Maybe he's the author of an addon, or article and believes he can get away with being rude and has special privelages above other users.

 

3) The lurker who's been around on the forum for years and occasionally adds a post. People generally don't know who the person is, and the lurker sometimes forgets this.

 

4) The neighbourhood watchman, a person who think's they are a moderator and bullies other users, e.g. "You should have searched","Idiot, Do you know what Google is?", "can't you read the rules", "where's you name in the signature", "this thread should be closed". Unfortunately, there are too many of these types.

 

5) Grammar ##### and people who get off on seeing people wrong on the Internet (I think the word is troll), gahhh!

 

6) Everyone else, the other users who chime in, join in on discussions, but are generally overshadowed by 1,2 and 4 :-)

 

This forum is really tame in comparison to others (Thinking of xplane.org here). That site is awful, and one of the worst I've ever seen on the Internet. If you're lucky enough to get a high post count on there without being banned or ripped to shreds by other users, then well done, you deserve a medal.

 

With regards to newbies posting, if a post annoys you, e.g. A newbie not searching. Ignore it!. Why do you feel the need to post with a sarcastic remark, you only make yourself look bad, and it's the kind of behaviour you'd see in the school yard. Go away, and let somebody who has the patience to be polite reply.

 

Secondly, leave moderation to moderators and the site owners. If a post or user bothers you ignore it, if someone is being rude or posting illegal links, report it to a moderator and move along. It's not your site to police. I hate seeing people reply "This post should be closed". If you feel that way, leave the post and don't come back, simple.

[magnetite 38]

 

3) The lurker who's been around on the forum for years and occasionally adds a post. People generally don't know who the person is, and the lurker sometimes forgets this.

 

I fit into this category, least on this forum.

 

 

5) Grammar ##### and people who get off on seeing people wrong on the Internet (I think the word is troll), gahhh!

 

These can be divided into multiple sub categories

[tonywob 4,770]

 

 

These can be divided into multiple sub categories

 

Ha ha love it, thanks for the laugh. So true :-)

[Holdit 551]

 

4) The neighbourhood watchman, a person who think's they are a moderator and bullies other users, e.g. "You should have searched","Idiot, Do you know what Google is?", "can't you read the rules", "where's you name in the signature", "this thread should be closed". Unfortunately, there are too many of these types.

 

 

One of my anti-favourites. If the thread offends/upsets/annoys/irritates people so much, they can just stop reading it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl545RF6dXA .

[ViperPilot 81]

I'd have to ask why, if somebody really doesn't want to give a 21st answer, and can't be helpful and/or pleasant, they bother to answer at all.  You have to assume it has something to do with the size of their own egos.

 

It's because the offenders can't stand by without saying something and seeing their words printed on the screen, or they have a fixation about the post count, or the number of stars in the bar; like you said... ego.

 

There are many times where an informational thread has been hijacked by someone making comments that have nothing to do with the topic, and results in basically ruining the thread for everyone else. Nowadays, it seems to happen more and more, and not just here at AVSIM.

 

It's a sad state of affairs; one that, unfortunately, will continue.

 

[polk2 15]

Flight simmers are rude to each other because it is an "aviation"thing, the real world has a pecking order of importance which is clearly identifiable unfortunately the flight sim online world is anonymous depsite badges of honour, status rankings, and everyone beiing a manager in a virtual airline, Vatsim. IVAO  etc

 

Status which maybe real world or just online just does not carry the same weight in online flight simming, i don't know who is a fighter pilot here or a 747 pilot or real world ATC, most rudeness is caused by "don't you know who i am "moments, either by real world experts or software developers or just hardcore simmers

 

Real world status dosen't transfer to flight simming, there should be a warning on Avsim, Vatsim, IVAO that this is the case and everyone is equal and nobody remembering or paying attention that you own a cessna172 is very likely.

[HiFlyer 9,363]

I'll give an example: lets say that the A2A P51 has a bug where you can't move the radiator flaps. One person posts the bug and the developer responds by acknowledging the bug and issuing a fix. Then an hour later you have a someone posting a thread on the same exact issue even though the old thread is still on the 1st page. By the end of the day you have at least 10 threads on the same problem due to new people hitting new thread without even checking the first 2 pages of the forum, in order to combat the problem the developer makes a sticky in bold letters which apparently is ignored by those who immediately jump to create thread. After awhile you have 10 threads on the problem which resulted from laziness and then you have to read each title to get to the non redundant stuff. Being new is no excuse for laziness.

Mod comes along.......

 

Hmmmmmmm.........

 

Threads merged.

 

Nobody gets snarled at.

 

Problem (usually) solved. Lesson (usually) learned.

 

How many repeat offenders?

[ailchim 212]

 

 

It's because the offenders can't stand by without saying something and seeing their words printed on the screen, or they have a fixation about the post count, or the number of stars in the bar; like you said... ego.

 

Well, I think I can honestly say I've never done a "RTFM" or "search for it yourself".  That's largely because when I started flightsimming, it was quite a while before I found Avsim and I remember what a relief it was to find a site with a large library of repaints etc for download and a forum where you could get (mostly) reliable information.  Keeping that in mind makes me a lot more sympathetic to others who are asking stupid questions because for sure I used to do it and maybe still do!

[ViperPilot 81]

Well, I think I can honestly say I've never done a "RTFM" or "search for it yourself".  That's largely because when I started flightsimming, it was quite a while before I found Avsim and I remember what a relief it was to find a site with a large library of repaints etc for download and a forum where you could get (mostly) reliable information.  Keeping that in mind makes me a lot more sympathetic to others who are asking stupid questions because for sure I used to do it and maybe still do!

 

Neither have I. At times, I have answered a poster's search question by cutting and pasting the specific Search result in my reply. What's so hard and taxing about doing that?

 

I think a lot of times the more experienced simmers truly forget that at some point, they were in the same boat as the newbies; not only are they learning the Sim, but they're also learning about the social hierarchy within the website, too. It doesn't help the situation any when the replies to a newbie's post are nothing but a stream of cryptic, condescending two word answers that are clearly mocking the poster instead of being constructive, and not even providing an answer to the poor guy's question!

 

Then what happens? How many new simmers have been turned off by posting, or have flat out left the site because of the arrogant, elitist attitude that is displayed by some Members?

 

Treat others the same way you want to be treated, plain and simple. If you don't have anything good to say, regardless... bite your tongue.

 

I know that this concept is very hard for some in the AVSIM Community to follow, and for the life of me I cannot fathom the reasons why.

 

[rlgoodson 5]

In all fairness, I have seen forums that were much, much worse.  BUT it always pays to treat others...esp newbies-with respect. 
After all, if this hobby has a future they are it.