NO, I'm just a customer who tell my opinion about something that is affecting me, and that if I have pruchased a product wich included a FWB simulation that is no working, then if you already fixed that, then give it to me...don't tell me you have it already fixed but I`m to wait for months just because you have decided to include it on SP wich you have also decided that you won't release until you have your next product finished because that product needs that SP...

 

 

YES! I think that they should release a hotfix or the whole SP1 first.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

 

Sure, releasing a hotfix for something that's already fixed is pretty simple, but then you get into a discussion of throttling:

 

Do you release a hotfix for each issue fixed?  If not, how often do you release them?  Is it based on the severity of the issues, or simply as you fix them?  How many fixes have to be made before you release the next hotfix?

 

Then you have to address the issues of the installers:

 

For each hotfix released, generally a new installer goes into the store (so that new purchasers don't have to go immediately into installing patches - one thing I hate with a lot of the sim products out there: "Congratulations and thanks for buying and installing our product!  Now go and use the stupidly complex HF process!!!").  Now you're managing two processes: an incremental installer for those who already have the plane, and a full installer for those who will be purchasing it later.  Multiply that by the amount of hotfixes that will be released.

 

The FBW issue, while irritating, was actually vastly improved during the Beta process.  So, while I understand it's an irritation and detracts from the sim experience, I got to see it in a state that actually made it extremely difficult to hand fly.  Having experienced that, I'd say the issues that people are seeing are rather tame and manageable until they release the SP.

 

That way, we only have to install a single SP and we're done.  All the issues are fixed.  No need to worry about coming back to fix a couple issues at a time.

 

 

 

Honestly, in the end, it's all a business decision.  Southwest doesn't charge for bags and their target market responds to that.  Unitedental does and their target market responds to that as well.  Whether or not it's a good idea can be argued on both sides.

 

Same with this:

Releasing multiple hotfixes increases workload and raises issues of logistics and management, with lower wait times.

Releasing one SP at the end of fixing all the known issues increases the time waited, with lower resource (logistics/management) costs in the end.

I am really looking forward to the 747-V2.

 

BTW..Would the 777-300 work on the P3Dv2? If so I'll grab it,  If not I am not sure I would be getting 300..  

 

I love the 777-200 and whenever the hot fix comes out I would be happy. I don't understand the trim issue people are talking about. I find it ok to hand fly the thing.. But it would help of VAS usage is reduced somehow... That would help a lot. 

For each hotfix released, generally a new installer goes into the store (so that new purchasers don't have to go immediately into installing patches - one thing I hate with a lot of the sim products out there: "Congratulations and thanks for buying and installing our product!  Now go and use the stupidly complex HF process!!!").  Now you're managing two processes: an incremental installer for those who already have the plane, and a full installer for those who will be purchasing it later.  Multiply that by the amount of hotfixes that will be released

 

I thought this was what the Ops Center was meant to address, or have I (likely) misunderstood ?

 

Edit:

 

This product (777) will kick off the use of the new PMDG Operations Center. The Ops Center will be a one-stop shop for you to keep all of your PMDG products up-to-date, download liveries, install liveries, and eventually we will be able to push live incremental updates to you in order to ensure that you always have the very latest fixes and post-release updates for your PMDG products

 

I thought this was what the Ops Center was meant to address, or have I (likely) misunderstood ?

 

You're correct.  I was mainly referring to the difficulty of the logistics on PMDG's end, though.  Still, while the Ops Center offers a streamlined approach for the end user, having to update the product fewer times is still desirable to me.  I know, and understand other people feel like having the hotfixes as soon as issues are fixed is desirable.

 

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate, because there are often merits to both sides.  While I'd love to be able to fly it without the FBW issues, I also understand why they prefer to just release it together with the rest of the fixes in the SP.

Kyle,

 

I hear you, I really do, but at the same time, it has been 4 months now. 

 

It certainly isn't sim-breaking, but it is a bit irritating, and to be completely blunt, I personally am not concerned with is easiest for PMDG. That is not meant disrespectfully, it's just not a valid justification in my mind. Not 4 months later anyway.

 

At any rate, we all know talking about it will change nothing, so I'll let it go at that.

 

Cheers.

To be honest, and this is just MY opinion... I don't really see why some of you guys are getting your nickers in a twist.

I find the T7, as is, rather easy to fly by hand. I'm starting to wonder whether I've just become some sort of "Super Sim Pilot" over the last few years, or whether I'm just missing something.

I won't say it's the easiest plane to fly in my library.... But I really don't see what the fuss is about.

Could somebody enlighten me please?

At least one person who agrees with me and doesn't give me "dislikes". Thanks Erek!  ^_^

 

I want to clarify something. I'm proud of PMDG, and what's more, I've been their customer since back in the 90's, when they only would sell manuals and hadn't even developed a software add-on yet and I was dreaming of being a professional pilot but, I respectfully think that regarding all of this, they're not doing it well, and that's my humble opinion.

 

I know this is not exactly the same thing, but it is as if a were to go this evening to walmart to buy a full-blown last model Nosy color TV, and when I arrive home I see that the image is in black and white. I then return to walmart to complain and I'm told "yes sir, that's a known issue for Nosy. It's just a software problenm that will be fixed on next firmware, but you'll have to wait for months because the new firmware, apart form solving your problem, will incorporate new features that will be used by their latest TV model wich is still under development, and they will not release that firmware until they not have their new TV ready for sale"....

 

What would you say?....I'd say "no sir, I have bought this color TV, and I want it to be fixed now If they have the fix already done. I don't care about their next TV wich I'm not planning to buy at the moment. I want my TV to work as it should, now, or here you have your TV and give me another one or my money".

 

I supposed one of the main objectives of the Operations Center was precisely this, to make it easy to deliver hotfixes as thery were fixing things, and now, all of a sudden, everything has to go into a service pack which we are 4,5 months waiting for as of today.

 

Your can call me weird, or crazy or whatever you like, but I, as in real life and when I'm able to so and SOPs permit, etc, like to hand-fly the airplane. I hand-fly the complete departure, arrival and approach if I can. With the sim I like to do the same thing, and my brain resists to fly this work of art (the PMDG 777) while coucisiously knowing that the flight control system is not working properly.

 

I know a lot of people like to make full use the AP/FD, FMS, etc....But I'm fed up using it in real life, I like to fly and feel the aircraft by hand and in raw data even, and that's why for me the FBW is so important that keeps me form flying this airplane until is fixed, although many of you resist to understand this. If you like to fly the aircraf knowing it's faulty because you get by using AP or you put up with the current hand-flying behaviour, ok...But some of us don't think or focus the simulation the same way

 

And keep in mind that I'm not saying that the airplane is unflyable or anything like that, beferore anyone comes here to say that.

 

Best regards.

Will it Andy? Will it really. Do the two aircraft really "feel" so much different to fly. I suspect not. 

I guess we'll have to see, eh :lol:

 

Personally, i think it will feel more modern, airy, more roomy, even perhaps  "smoother" and actually "longer", too. I just get the idea the cockpit will give off a different essence about it, a bit like eating a potato and apple. To the ones pinching their noses, or ones who can't "feel" (or taste) the minorist of differences, they're the same thing. But for someone like me, who can always sense a change, even if just a tiny bit, well then they, to put it in terms of the food, are a World[Liner] (see what i did there :lol: ) apart.

 

Now, to save confusion from a few weeks, no, i am not suggesting you're pinching your nose nor the fact you can't recognise small things blah blah blah etc etc etc

 

 

It certainly isn't sim-breaking, but it is a bit irritating, and to be completely blunt, I personally am not concerned with is easiest for PMDG. That is not meant disrespectfully, it's just not a valid justification in my mind. Not 4 months later anyway.

 

...and like you hear me, I hear you. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to have been flying this without any FBW issues from day one.

 

At the same time, regardless of your concern for what's easiest from PMDG, quite honestly, the company is going to act on that model. Adding complexity drives up costs, and increases margins for errors. Businesses like to minimize those factors, and act accordingly. Of course, if it's thought that customers will leave in hordes by placing too much emphasis on those two factors, they may sacrifice some of that to address that concern. Fundamentals of econ there. I'm not saying I like it, but businesses act the way they do based on economic principles.

 

 

 

I find the T7, as is, rather easy to fly by hand. I'm starting to wonder whether I've just become some sort of "Super Sim Pilot" over the last few years, or whether I'm just missing something.

I won't say it's the easiest plane to fly in my library.... But I really don't see what the fuss is about.

Could somebody enlighten me please?

 

I understand it, but only to a certain degree. There's a tick in how it behaves that shouldn't be there, which is irritating to deal with, but not unmanageable. I agree with everyone's sentiment that it would be nice to have been flying with it fixed this whole time, but like you, I'm not understanding why people are making such a big deal about it.

 

I won't deny that, like others have mentioned, I avoid hand flying to a certain degree because I know the bug will throw me out of that feeling that I'm there (like most bugs do). At the same time, I'm not going to get heated about it because I know it'll be fixed.

 

 

 

I supposed one of the main objectives of the Operations Center was precisely this, to make it easy to deliver hotfixes as thery were fixing things, and now, all of a sudden, everything has to go into a service pack which we are 4,5 months waiting for as of today.

 

Ease of delivery != ease of management.

 

As I mentioned earlier, just because it's easy to deliver the HF/SP to the end user, there's a decent amount of management that needs to be done behind the scenes on their end.

 

They can easily distribute 4 hotfixes and have a logistical nightmare on their end; or

They can easily distribute 1 SP and have an easier time with logistics on their end.

 

 

 

Your can call me weird, or crazy or whatever you like, but I, as in real life and when I'm able to so and SOPs permit, etc, like to hand-fly the airplane. I hand-fly the complete departure, arrival and approach if I can. With the sim I like to do the same thing, and my brain resists to fly this work of art (the PMDG 777) while coucisiously knowing that the flight control system is not working properly.

 

You're not weird at all.  I avoid it to a certain degree, myself for the same reason.  I had an IRS issue on the NGX the other week and had to hand fly to the FL-GA border from MIA while troubleshooting the issue to get it to the point where the AP could be engaged.  I probably would've abandoned the flight if it were in the 777 because of the FBW/Trim issue.

superb news for the 747-200v2 prepar3Dv2? well done hope you also release the 777 to prepar3Dv2 and my GTX780 in SLI I'm just waiting for two things: Prepar3D release the update with the implementation of SLI and the second is that PMDG release their PMDG for Prepar3D, I'll enjoy the most, Mr. randazzo thanks! Prepar3D without aircraft PMDG is not a simulator hehe, I apologize in advance for my bad English, PMDG are the best, but I'll wait to go on sale in DVD as all my PMDG, I'm a collector, sorry for my effusivity :-) :-D 

Come on Kyle, there are few better examples out there of a captive market.  :lol:

 

Leaving in hordes...hahaha... to go where ? 

 

(yes, I am aware that as a "luxury" item this isn't 100% accurate)

 

For the record, I don't think it is a big deal when looking at the simulation as a whole, but, you know, just once it would be nice to see PMDGs business plan take a back seat to other concerns, even if only for a moment. I know that isn't going to happen, but one can dream.

 

I don't feel PMDG are the devil incarnate.

 

I do feel that the T7 is the greatest simulation for the any platform regardless of any flaws it has. 

 

I also feel that PMDGs strong position in the market, with such a captive audience to boot, also means that they maybe don't have to worry so much about addressing the small time customer's day to day concerns. 

 

Kind reminds me of the cable company  :lol:

 

In any case, it'll get here when it gets here...and I will download it and enjoy it...and I will likely buy the 77W as well against my better judgement...because what else really compares ?

 

 

Come on Kyle, there are few better examples out there of a captive market.

Leaving in droves...hahaha,,, to go where ?

 

haha - who knows.  I'm off to a movie theatre and then to the Verizon Center to go experience the clear lack of a captive market...

 

 

 

For the record, I don't think it is a big deal when looking at the simulation as a whole, but, you know, just once it would be nice to see PMDGs business plan take a back seat to other concerns, even if only for a moment. I know that isn't going to happen, but one can dream.

 

Eh...honestly, I think they're just trying something new.  If you got the NGX as soon as it came out, there were quite a few HFs and SPs that got to be a pain to manage, even on the end user side.  I think this swing to nearly the polar opposite end of the spectrum is in reaction to that.  That's just my opinion, however.

 

 

 

I also feel that PMDGs strong position in the market, with such a captive audience to boot, also means that they maybe don't have to worry so much about addressing the small time customer's day to day concerns.

 

I really don't think they're resting on their reputation and [arguable] lack of competition in order to take it easy.  I'd argue it's more of an issue of balancing fixing products and continuing to develop revenue-generating products to support that effort, all with the same groups of people.  Just my take, but I can see possibility in your viewpoint as well.

 

Eh...honestly, I think they're just trying something new.  If you got the NGX as soon as it came out, there were quite a few HFs and SPs that got to be a pain to manage, even on the end user side.  I think this swing to nearly the polar opposite end of the spectrum is in reaction to that.  That's just my opinion, however.

 

 

 

Ahh..see there lies my ignorance on the matter, I didn't purchase the NGX until after the T7.

 

(I just am bored to death by the 737NG in general...I am yawning just typing this)

 

In that context it makes a lot more sense. 

 

Well, enjoy your afternoon.

To be honest, and this is just MY opinion... I don't really see why some of you guys are getting your nickers in a twist.

I find the T7, as is, rather easy to fly by hand. I'm starting to wonder whether I've just become some sort of "Super Sim Pilot" over the last few years, or whether I'm just missing something.

I won't say it's the easiest plane to fly in my library.... But I really don't see what the fuss is about.

Could somebody enlighten me please?

 

Because I'm a rw airline pilot and fly for a living, and before that, I used FS for years when I was a pilot wannabe, so I know what I'm talking about when the talk is about airplanes, even if in real life I do not fly one specific airplane under discussion, such as the T7 in this case....

 

I know I'm going to be executed for saying this but yes, I'm a super pilot and can fly the PMDG 777 with my eyes closed, but....

 

as Kyle would say, "Easy to fly by hand != Real Behaviour", wich is what I care the most...

 

Don't take offense.

 

Best regards.

I really liked the Operation Center idea at first, I thought PMDG had created such a great way to make their product always the best it could be, but after six months of waiting for the SP1, I see nothing has changed. It's just a software that makes installing liveries easier. That's too bad. Looked like such a great idea!