Why can AVSIM not be a troll free zone

[WotanUK 289]

Who cares about how a post is rated?  Is there a prize for most likes, beta testing the PMDG 747, if so i'll take it far more seriously.  If not, the post information doesn't even feature in my reasoning.

 

I assume that most of the people on here are Adults, i imagine that most of us are pushing into, well, shall we say maturity, if you disagree with something i write then i would encourage you to reply and tear me a new one if required, all i ask is to keep it polite and expect the same back.

 

Personally I don't like the new system, simply because it isn't a discussion, why not just reply to the post and say why it's right or wrong, why you don't like or like it?  

 

Surely the point of a forum is a discussion between individuals who have the same or similar interests, at the end of the day we are all flight sim fans, why not talk, even argue about our favourite topic to each other?

[mganz121 159]

I've noticed...

 

Regarding that flamewar we got into the other day, which was removed, and hopefully can be put behind us: Did it not occur to you that maybe one of the reason I responded quite forcefully to your P3D pitch was because I had noticed that you were one of the people handing out 'Dumbs' with a particular fervor... I don't have a count, but that was my impression, right or wrong. By handing out certain ratings, or rather by using the rating system in a certain way, you had previously established yourself as purely partisan in my mind, unwilling to tolerate a different point of view or consider completely rational reasons why someone might not fully embrace the New Thing. It wasn't just the things you said, it was the way you had been rating. Don't you think it poisoned the well, even a little? So this is the reason, imho, why I'm not fully convinced that the current rating system is a good thing...Or maybe it is, since it lets us all know where the biases lay. My feelings about the system remain mixed.

It's interesting that you see one reply from myself to you as a flame war, simply because I was amused and slightly annoyed that you had decided to puts words into my mouth. What was worse, was the fact that you had decided to hijack my reply to somebody else stating a simple fact and, in the process, taken what I had stated completely out of context. ........... and you continue to do so in this topic.

 

Yes, it was put behind immediately, hence the reason why I did not reply further. I assume it was deleted because I said that I suspected that if your IQ was any lower, you would need watering. And that's where forums fall flat on their face, because humour struggles across cultures. Some people even have no sense of humour at all. Ain't that sad!

 

Regarding the rating system though, I think it will take a little time for people to get used to it as some could obviously lose sleep or get angry if they get a dislike or dumb, especially if they are not mature enough to stand behind their comments. BTW, correct me if I am wrong here, but I have handed out very few "Dumbs". Those that have recieved one have usually just been trolling.

 

Oh and for the record, I like both FSX and P3D as both have different uses for me.

 

What I do dislike though (and in keeping with this thread subject) are those that come into the P3D forum and continually put the product down, often without cause or justification. But there again I have witnessed this through just about every flight simulator release. The fact of the matter is that there will always be those that resist change, simply because it takes them out of their comfort zones. Sadly some of them start trolling to get a bite or round up some support. Is that because they are ultimately scared of being left behind? I doubt it, but I really can't think of any other reason.

[KingGhidorah 209]

When you are telling someone that they are so dumb they need to be watered, in the context of an angry post, the forums fell flat on their face not conveying the humor?  I think they deleted it because the whole exchange was pretty ugly, not because of one particular sentence, and I don't think that our exchange could have been mistaken as a friendly ribbing, in any culture or language.  But it's behind us, I'm glad we can agree on that.

 

I agree that people shouldn't come into the P3D forums and just put it down for the sake of putting it down....But you might notice that there are a lot of posts that seem to suggest it's clear sailing all the way, for everybody, that it's a total no-brainer.  People that push back against some of that hype with a more balanced viewpoint were also getting categorized as trolls.  I think it's getting better now as some of the hype fades, and a more sober opinion of the plusses and minuses emerges, but even today, a more or less friendly discussion with Dillon led to several dumb votes simply because some clown didn't like my counterpoint to Dillon that P3D isn't the answer for everyone just yet.

 

 

What I do dislike though (and in keeping with this thread subject) are those that come into the P3D forum and continually put the product down, often without cause or justification. But there again I have witnessed this through just about every flight simulator release. The fact of the matter is that there will always be those that resist change, simply because it takes them out of their comfort zones. Sadly some of them start trolling to get a bite or round up some support. Is that because they are ultimately scared of being left behind? I doubt it, but I really can't think of any other reason.

 

There ARE those that resist change, and sure there are people coming in saying "P3D is rubbish".  However, there is a big difference between that, and someone who says "I'm sticking with FSX for the time being because P3D seems to have too many issues right now" and disagrees with a manufactured consensus that all is roses.  The former I won't defend, the latter I will.  As for me, I'm going over to P3D at the moment I think it will be optimal to fit my own needs, and hopefully that can be soon.  Some of the people who have balanced things to say are being derided as FSX Deadenders, and I don't think that's fair.  Like I said, I think it's getting a little better than it was this time last week as evidence by the current "Lessons Learned" discussion, which I'm reading and regarding as a fairly frank discussion thus far(*edit* well at least until Dillon called the OP a Troll)

[Dillon 2,197]

Sure Dillon, but you've just described responsible useage of the rating system. When somebody "dumbs" someone because of a personal conflict or because they simply don't like something rather than the content of their post, that IMO is irresponsible use. For example I was reading a P3D2 thread the other day and I noticed Double J had gone through and "dumbed" everyone that had something positive to say about the new sim. From the first thread to the last, anyone who wasn't complaining about P3D2 had a dumb vote from Double J. Obviously he's having trouble getting the sim to run well for him and he's not happy about it but that doesn't make everyone who's having success with it "dumb".

 

Now we need a rating system for the rating system so we can "dumb" people's "dumb" votes too. :smile:

 

 

Sounds like a troll the mods need to deal with.  :wink:

[HiFlyer 9,361]

People say "don't feed the trolls" but to be honest I have no idea what they eat

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue troll.

 

(Though they prefer noobs)  :lol:

[n4gix 4,947]

I think they deleted it because the whole exchange was pretty ugly, not because of one particular sentence, and I don't think that our exchange could have been mistaken as a friendly ribbing, in any culture or language.

You are one hundred percent correct in your perception of the rationale behind simply removing the entire exchange.

 

The other mods and I have been allowing a bit more tolerance for the first few weeks, but will be very proactive when it comes to verbal warfare... :Hmmmph:

[Kattz 132]

I partially agree with this.  Some are using the new downvote system just as a way to say F.U.  I have a dillemna on how to deal with this.  Should I report them?  I never was much a fan of "Ima gonna tell the teacher" stuff on the playground.  Should I just immediately downvote them back (and I have on many occassions, which makes me feel a little petty)?  Some of the people hardly ever post an inciteful point themselves, they just go around as professional raters and biased judges of other people's opinions. Or should I just ignore them, and let a bunch of red accumulate next to my name, without any context?   If such a system is to remain in place, I would contend that it shouldn't be anonymous, but it does come with the price of if one uses the system simply to simply preemptively flip somebody the finger because you're a P3D fan, or an X-plane fan, or an FSX/FS9 fan and the other guy isn't,  or you just simply don't like the person's past comments,  then you are singling yourself out as a partisan a-hole.  I see this as a very definite form of "trolling".

(Insert long-suffering sigh here)...

 

While I don't agree 100% of the time with KG, at least he "got" the point of my post.  It allows trolling of a whole different, abusive nature.  Dillon, for example.  I've noticed that no matter where he goes, he gets schwacked for his opinion, be it right, wrong, or indifferent.  And IMO, there are people following Dillon's posts just to just to punch him (not literal, just a figure of speech) for what he says.  Now they can run his (approval?) points into a nosedive just because they have taken a dislike to him.  We got rid of this type of stuff on our forums (non-aviation, more members than avsim) just because it creates more problems that it prevents.

 

I've said my piece. It's like an engine, it'll either ease up or sieze up...

[KingGhidorah 209]

Yes, we agree, but there is some irony here, because I would contend that Dillon hasn't been the nicest guy with his own use of downvotes to counter a certain point of view...For the sake of disclosure, I PM'd him this morning about it and said something to the tune of "this madness needs to stop". 

[Dillon 2,197]

Yes, we agree, but there is some irony here, because I would contend that Dillon hasn't been the nicest guy with his own use of downvotes to counter a certain point of view...For the sake of disclosure, I PM'd him this morning about it and said something to the tune of "this madness needs to stop". 

 

Why are you so irked about who votes who down?  If you have something people don't agree with and the majority is not on your side about the issue just deal with it.  Like I said earlier I've dealt with crap for years since the release of FSX.  Some of it was my own doing because I talked about a platform many have grown to like (tweaking and all).  It's called thick skin.  Kattz said it best above.  I know this is just an internet forum and I go back to my life and don't worry about it.  We are all passionate about our hobby.  Now that P3D v2 is out for me FSX is the past and I can get back to helping people when I can and looking forward to the latest new releases.  

 

For the record I never could understand Online Bullying where it makes one want to jump off a bridge.  KG don't take this stuff so seriously, just be comfortable in your view and don't be bothered if people like it or not (I will add be open to others views as that helps with an overall understanding).  

[KingGhidorah 209]

No, I'm not offended so much by downvotes themselves.  I'm offended by how they are being used to promote an agenda.  Forget the downvotes.  I'm offended by the agenda. 

 

You said nothing but bad things about FSX for years (while trying to use it on a 2.6ghz machine that was years obsolete) and now you are trying to manufacture a consensus about P3D that it is basically all is good in every possible way, right now, and that everybody who disagrees with you or is a  little more cautious is a "Troll".  Whether you hand them a downvote or not is just a matter of technique.  Just look at the thread that is running concurrent as I type "P3D Lessons Learned".  Look what you did!  And you are actually giving me the friendly reminder me to be open with my views, and to those of others...as if you are?

 

I disagree with Kattz that you are an innocent victim of some kind of bullying.  In this circumstance, I would submit that you are the bully.

 

Several months ago you had a thread, something about Bittersweet about PMDG 777.  At the time I couldn't understand why both Tabs, and especially SpiritFlyer hammered you so hard.  While I'm not suggesting that I agree with the way it was handled, and the slapdown made me uncomfortable, I'm starting to understand the context a little better.  You're really in the business of telling people what they should like and how they should sim and after a while I can see why it starts to get on people's nerves.

 

I'm outta this thread now.

[Kattz 132]

A

I disagree with Kattz that you are an innocent victim of some kind of bullying. In this circumstance, I would submit that you are the bully.

 

KG, I didn't say he was innocent.  The conflict just follows him, as it were.  Dillon has a lot of people who don't like him, and many times, for reason.  I picked Dillon because he's on this thread.  There's so many more.  Heck, I've created more than my own share of controversy here on AVSIM, but I never went out of my way to engage in downright trolling.  I've beaten posters about the head and shoulders and received the same in turn.  When I got it, I mostly deserved it, except for my post about WX radar.  A lot of posters got more than a little too righteous...

 

I just think, like you do, that there will be a lot of "he voted me down, so I'm gonna vote him down" childish madness.  And then the mods have to be bothered when someone complains "Mom, he downvoted me on every on of my last 5 posts..." or some such nonsense, and then Tom or someone else has to step in and "Don't make me pull this car over..." kind of thing. 

[JSkorna 137]

FYI,

 

12 down votes and 4 dumb votes is probably not an abuse of the rating system.

[HiFlyer 9,361]

A

 

KG, I didn't say he was innocent.  The conflict just follows him, as it were.  Dillon has a lot of people who don't like him, and many times, for reason.  I picked Dillon because he's on this thread.  There's so many more.  Heck, I've created more than my own share of controversy here on AVSIM, but I never went out of my way to engage in downright trolling.  I've beaten posters about the head and shoulders and received the same in turn.  When I got it, I mostly deserved it, except for my post about WX radar.  A lot of posters got more than a little too righteous...

 

I just think, like you do, that there will be a lot of "he voted me down, so I'm gonna vote him down" childish madness.  And then the mods have to be bothered when someone complains "Mom, he downvoted me on every on of my last 5 posts..." or some such nonsense, and then Tom or someone else has to step in and "Don't make me pull this car over..." kind of thing. 

 

I think I must have been raised wrong, or something.....  :blink:

 

I've always assumed (and the demographics tend to support it) that were're all adults here, but I honestly don't know what to think about what I'm hearing in this thread.........

 

I swear to God this place actually manages to scare me a little sometimes.

 

Everyone knows we are talking about toy airplanes, right?

 

Right?

[LeeL 272]

I think I must have been raised wrong, or something..... :blink:

 

I've always assumed (and the demographics tend to support it) that were're all adults here, but I honestly don't know what to think about what I'm hearing in this thread.........

 

I swear to God this place actually manages to scare me a little sometimes.

 

Everyone knows we are talking about toy airplanes, right?

 

Right?

Excuse me but they're simulated toys so....

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

 

 

I know this is just an internet forum and I go back to my life and don't worry about it. We are all passionate about our hobby.

 

"Just an Internet forum"??? Now you are going to get me riled up there bucko. THIS BE HOME! And don't you forget it. :Big Grin:

 

Okay, seriously folks, I have been holding this back while all this played out about the new topic rating system. Now that all of you have obviated over it, I have a secret to tell...

 

All y'all are going to have to set aside your issues with the rating system, cause it will be "altered", "modified", "redesigned", and you know, more IN YOUR FACE! LOL.

 

Okay, not really... But I am going to redesign it, and I am going to give all y'all the opportunity to make this system more aviation oriented. For example:

 

Now it is AGREE: New plan; UP CHECK: You read the POM and you checked that box pilot.

Now it is DISAGREE: New plan; DOWN CHECK: You read the POM and definitely missed that page.

Now it is DUMB: New plan; Ain't flying with you brother.

 

And you get the idea.. So, here it is, your opportunity to make this topic rating system into something meaningful. I am open to suggestions along the lines above. Your sage advice is????

 

 

I swear to God this place actually manages to scare me a little sometimes.

 

I should start forwarding my email to you. Then you would have reason to be scared. :lol: