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nathanpinard

To P3d or not to P3d

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I know there are threads that are like this, but I've done a lot of research in FSX and P3D. Why? Because I haven't bought either yet.

 

I'm a first time simmer. I owned MFS back in the day, but not sure which one it was. I'm sure it was before FS9 though. I'm more interested in GA then fighters, especially when it comes to an actual career type experience (Addons or VA or VatSim) something to give me a reason to go from point A to point B.

 

P3D seems to be the sucessor of FSX, however there is one big issue I'm having with it. It's not the EULA, or the cost, but the future addon support.

 

There are a few addon developers now that do, or are making compatible addons for P3D. However, it seems there is a catch.

 

The addons are MORE for P3D, but for the same model. This leads me to speculate there is a development fee in able to provide at least aircraft for P3D. In this case A2A, and possibly PDMG. This could cause some developers to just not release anything for P3D.

 

FSX doesn't seem to have this issue that I can see. Anyone and everyone can develop for FSX.

 

The other thing is P3D seems to provide a decent amount of graphics without additional addons that FSX requires. Such as lighting and more distant autogen.

 

 

----

 

There are pro's and cons to either. But if you experience simmers were to start over again, which would you buy? I've been spending days trying to justify one or the other, and I can't seem to do that.

 

My specs:

i7 2600k clocked to 4.2 (actually can get this to 5ghz, but FSX doesn't like it)

32GB RAM (it's a music production machine too)

WIndows 7

SSD for HD space (for wherever it's installed)

GTX 680 Ti with 3GB

 

I also much point out that I'm aiming for higher than 30fps if possible. Or at least a stable 30fps in all situations.

 

NOTE: I"m well aware of the EULA. No need to discuss that.

 

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You pretty much nailed it. After using it for a couple yrs, I've come to your conclusion. Now you will have those. "Im part of a new development software" group. Personally, I could care less. My 68 GTO is no longer in development and its the best vehicle I own due to the aftermarket suppliers.

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Well, P3D isn't all about addons. It offers you much more in terms of optimalisation and new features. Every day the people of LM are working hard on new fixes and possibilities. So yes, it is based on the FSX engine but approach it like a new sim. In my case the performance is much better and more stable than in FSX. Also no single CTD since I use P3D. For me there is no way back to the good but old FSX.

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   If I were starting over, I would go with P3D. Simply because I know about the warts, of FSX. (OOM's and CTD's) No Thanx.

P3D has been a refreshing experience. Especially for GA flying in the Orbx PNW/ PFJ, areas. FPS easily in the 30's.

 

  regards, Jazz.

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Appareciate the responses. I guess there is no harm in owning both EVENTUALLY. So I will go with P3D to start.

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For anyone that ends up reading this for the same question I had, this is pretty much a deciding factor:

 

https://news.microsoftflight.com/blogs/news/archive/2014/07/03/flight-shutdown-announcement.aspx

 

While there is X-Plane for another sim, it doesn't have the modeling correct according to A2A simluations. Some addon devs can't even get the planes to fly like they do because of X-Planes engine. And X-Plane doesn't simulate engine start/warm up either.

 

So really, P3D is the only choice.

 

 

There are still copies of FSX Gold, so I'm wondering how those will be sold? They state "No. Product keys are no longer being issued to new players." so I'm confused on that.

 

Obviously, DTG will pick up. But what they do with the franchise is unkown at this time. it may be even more locked down than P3D right now.

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For me I own FSX. I looked into P3D and liked what I saw. The deciding point was that I had just bought the PMDG 777, then PMDG stated that you would need a new licence for the P3D version when it arrives. This got me thinking as to other developers, some make dual installs, some make two versions and sell together, but I thought about how much it would cost to transfer. After buying the P3D licence, how much would I have to buy again.

 

in your case, as you do not have either, then my suggestion will be P3D, mainly because it is being developed and improved.

 

Maybe with the latest development in the FSX saga, SP3 will be in the future and FSX could get the benefits the P3D did.

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I only fly small aircraft and helicopters and pretty much started over last Fall.  I had just bought a decent computer last August and decided not to install my copy of FSX, as I didn't want to invest any more in a flightsim that was no longer being updated. My one mistake was my decision to go with X-Plane 10.  I owned X-Plane 9 and this new release was hailed as a major upgrade (and supposedly fixed a lot of the things that I never like about their previous version). Unfortunately I was very disappointed with the new version as well. X-Plane 10's "plausible world" was more often than not, not-all-that-plausible for me (and there were still no seasonal scenery changes). X-Plane 10 does have the best night lighting and it had the best helicopter flight model, but I hate the flight model for its small aircraft (like it's default Cessna) . . which blow around in a light wind like they were made out of paper. I guess I was spoiled by MS Flight's feeling of flight, which totally blew away X-Plane's flight model (at least for small GA). I kept trying to like X-Plane, but I found myself spending way more time flying in MS Flight (and enjoying it way more).

 

When P3D version 2.0 was released, I decided to give this new sim a try, and it was the best flightsim decision that I have ever made.  I'm VERY happy with P3D, even though it still needs a bit more work (there are still a few bugs and it needs to be a bit better optimized) . . . but it is the most immersive virtual flying that I have ever enjoyed (and I've been doing this since MSFSV).

 

Not all addons cost more for P3D.  And many FSX addons also work in P3D2 (just make sure that you only install the ones that are truly compatible). I owned A2A's Piper Cub for FSX and it also runs perfectly in P3D. I now have A2A's C172 Trainer and Piper Cherokee and they are practically the only aircraft I now fly. Orbx is currently upgrading all their scenery with triple installers (FSX, P3D1, P3D2) and you can upgrade at no extra cost.  And if you purchase HiFi's Active Sky Next, the license entitles users to use both FSX and/or P3Dv2 versions. And the current version of FSCaptain is designed to work in FS2004, FSX and Prepar3d (and you can use the same version/license for all three). When I was having trouble finding a P3D2 compatible helicopter, I contacted Ryan Mason, the Director of development for Nemeth Design, and he told me that all of their products should be fully compatible with P3D. I decided on their Eurocopter EC-130 B4 and it does indeed see to work perfectly in P3D (I need a bit more time to fully test it out).

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I only fly small aircraft and helicopters and pretty much started over last Fall.  I had just bought a decent computer last August and decided not to install my copy of FSX, as I didn't want to invest any more in a flightsim that was no longer being updated. My one mistake was my decision to go with X-Plane 10.  I owned X-Plane 9 and this new release was hailed as a major upgrade (and supposedly fixed a lot of the things that I never like about their previous version). Unfortunately I was very disappointed with the new version as well. X-Plane 10's "plausible world" was more often than not, not-all-that-plausible for me (and there were still no seasonal scenery changes). X-Plane 10 does have the best night lighting and it had the best helicopter flight model, but I hate the flight model for its small aircraft (like it's default Cessna) . . which blow around in a light wind like they were made out of paper. I guess I was spoiled by MS Flight's feeling of flight, which totally blew away X-Plane's flight model (at least for small GA). I kept trying to like X-Plane, but I found myself spending way more time flying in MS Flight (and enjoying it way more).

 

When P3D version 2.0 was released, I decided to give this new sim a try, and it was the best flightsim decision that I have ever made.  I'm VERY happy with P3D, even though it still needs a bit more work (there are still a few bugs and it needs to be a bit better optimized) . . . but it is the most immersive virtual flying that I have ever enjoyed (and I've been doing this since MSFSV).

 

Not all addons cost more for P3D.  And many FSX addons also work in P3D2 (just make sure that you only install the ones that are truly compatible). I owned A2A's Piper Cub for FSX and it also runs perfectly in P3D. I now have A2A's C172 Trainer and Piper Cherokee and they are practically the only aircraft I now fly. Orbx is currently upgrading all their scenery with triple installers (FSX, P3D1, P3D2) and you can upgrade at no extra cost.  And if you purchase HiFi's Active Sky Next, the license entitles users to use both FSX and/or P3Dv2 versions. And the current version of FSCaptain is designed to work in FS2004, FSX and Prepar3d (and you can use the same version/license for all three). When I was having trouble finding a P3D2 compatible helicopter, I contacted Ryan Mason, the Director of development for Nemeth Design, and he told me that all of their products should be fully compatible with P3D. I decided on their Eurocopter EC-130 B4 and it does indeed see to work perfectly in P3D (I need a bit more time to fully test it out).

 

Well said Arwen  :clapping: 

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Yeah PDMG will probably come close to doubling the price for their planes, but who knows what kind of licenses they will provide. A2A's licenses are a little odd.

 

Either way it'll even out. Seems only planes apply to any special licensing. Other things like scenery don't get affected.

 

FSCaptain I'm well aware of, as I'm definitely going to pick that up. 

 

What I plan to get is the following:

 

P3D

An A2A model (Cessna or Piper) for GA flying.

A Heavy Metal model of some sort. Q400 or Airbus PDMG will be the end goal.

Scenery, most likely Orbx NA Blue (I live in Oregon)

FSCaptain

FS2Crew

Active Sky or some other weather model

REX Textures

Saitek Yoke kit, with pedals eventually.

 

I should be having fun in no time. Obviously I won't be buying all of the above at once :)

 

If anyone else had mod/addon ideas, I'm all ears.

 

Also while Active Sky is great, does anyone know how REX's Weather model is working? I think it's in beta.

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P3D is the future.. It has its problems but once you strip away your sense of entitlement (not a dig, I've done it and have had it too).. It's far beyond FSX. Just don't let your eagerness for updates get to you.  Again, I've cursed this simulator myself.. Then you just have to breathe, and think.. Do you REALLY want to go back to FSX?

 

Of course not.. 

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my 2 ct

 

I bought p3dv2. Since then I installed/ de installed it 5 times. Tried it with win 7, win 8, its own ssd etc etc.

 

At this point in time i dont think it's a good sim for 2014. While some may bash X plane, that sim is better than p3d right now in all departements, not least of all the fact that it runs without so much as a hickup, no stutters, no ctd, no tweaking, no nvidia inspector settings.

 

P3d may be the future, but at present I really do not like it and it has been a HUGE disappointment  for me. FSX is much better overall, with all the available addons.

 

P3d is based on obsolete code...new jacket..same ol' tweakfest as fsx.

 

My machine i5 2500k @ 4,3, 16 gb ddr, ssd, GTX780 oc 3 gb, win 8.0 64 bit

 

Minimum installed addons to make p3d look bareable: ORBX global and vector, rex4 textures and ASN for weather.

Settings standard as they come.

No cfg tweaks as they don't seem to make one bit of difference

 

fps wildly varies from 15 to 100, including micro and not so micro stutters. CPU isn't maxed while running, neither is my GPU.

 

My advise is to save your money, or invest it in X-plane 10, or FSX for that matter, than at least you can fly pmdg etc.

 

Most people will advise you to buy p3d v2 though. And I know why; because they really WANT to like p3dv2, which makes them partially blind to the huge shortcomings of the sim in its current and near future state. I really want to like it too, but after several installs, i've come to the conclusion that i really do not like it atm.

 

So, anyone looking for cheapy cheapy taking over my account on simmarket with orbx global and vector, rex4, asn.... ;)

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And I know why; because they really WANT to like p3dv2, which makes them partially blind to the huge shortcomings of the sim in its current and near future state.

 

Wow, that's pretty funny. A massive assumption, of course, and untrue most certainly. Could you speak of your own experiences and let others speak of theirs? Without the judgement?

 

Here's mine:

1) P3Dv2.2: love it. 

2) FSX: still pretty good and I use it one or twice a week.

3) XPX: Use it once a month...for a short while...always.

 

Eyes and ears wide open,

Thanks 

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You will see that I don't post a lot in here but when I feel I might be able to help I do. This is one of those occasions.

 

I would download the X Plane demo and if you can afford to risk the money one decent payware GA plane (if GA is your thing).Then also download the relevant segment of HD Mesh V2 from Alpilotx for the Seattle region (which is the demo area) - it is a bit like ORBX Global Vector in terms of what it does - but it is donation wear - so you can download the segment and try it for free. Make sure you find out how to set the files up in the right order - it is very simple using the Custom Scenery folder. Find some freeware airpoirts in the region - some are very good, some not so good. Use some different settings in the weather (the blowing about is not really true if you stay within the aircrafts published limits, but if you try and take out a small GA plane that has a max operating limit of 13 knots corsswind in anything more then expect to get blown around). If you can load the 10.3 beta in demo mode do so - it has fixed some of the more obvious flight model issues (e.g. prop torque) and just performs better. The sim is very fluid and smooth.

 

I find P3D a pain and just cannot get it to look right even with the recommended tweaks and my system is no slouch (Titan, 64Gb RAM, i& -4930K).  Even with ORBX add ons it is not a sharp to my eye as X Plane. It is a pain to set up properly (EzDoc, FSUIPC for axis etc) but for me the worst thing is the stuttering and the feeling of flight - it just does not feel like flight - I use PFC yolk and pedals which shoud help. I spent $199 dolloars plus add ons - just had to do it to satify my curiosity. I don't really use it. I have compared idenitical payware models (e.g. Carenado C90B) it flies way better in X Plane (only my opinion) and the quality of the grahics is to my eye much sharper (P3D seems very dark).

 

X Plane was and is still owned and programmed by a practicing pilot - which must count for something. My son flies a PA38 Tomahawk - he said the Carenado version real felt closer to the real thing in X Plane - he does not think the flight model feels the same in P3D - too sterile. 

 

X Plane doesn't crash or stutter. It doesn't sit in your root directory or fiddle with your registry.  I read of people apparently having to re-install P3D on more occasions than would appear to be fun. I like to fly not tweak.

 

I was very sceptical about X Plane because of what I read - it blew me away and is getting better literally everyday.

 

But and this is the key - it is a very personal thing - doesn't matter what anybody tells you. It will depend on what you fly, where you fly and how you like to fly - if systems are your thing then it doesn't much matter what the flight model feels like if the aircraft's flight computer is flying the aircraft (you just sit there and monitor and occasionally go into a flurry of doing - its a bit like fishing) in which case P3D is probably the right way to go - but be aware that PMDG is about to release for X Plane and also a new player IXEG is very well worth exploring in terms of a true to life systems experience for a Boeing.

 

It will depend on whether you want birds tweeting and grass blowing in the wind and dogs and people wandering around in which case you will need ORBX which means P3D. To some these are important - I love all that - ORBX looks fantastic. But more importantly I love to fly. ORBX England does not help me with VFR flying as it has created a Disneyesque version of England (in my opinion, no hard feelings) - it is very pretty. With X Plane I can follow every road and waterway, recognise every hill and mountain that I am familair with,  and with World2Xplane (check it out) wherever the OSM mapping is good enough every house and building is placed exactly.   I can then tune VOR after VOR and off I go and know exactly where I am when I look out the window. But that is what I like doing - it may not be your thing.

 

If you want seasons then whilst they are sort of available in X Plane via a plugin they are not a match for P3D\ORBX.

 

I am going to buy the A2A Cessna for P3D just to check out just how good it is - the curiostoy is killing me - it appears to be amazing - and you never know  - maybe it will feel that good that I spend more time enjoying P3D. If so bring it on because there is no equivalent in terms of the systems reality in X Plane and I think that would be fun - but not at the expense fo the feeling of flight.

 

Good luck in whatever you do - but please at least give X Plane demo a try - just so you know. It will cost you nothing unless you want to try out some payware aircraft.

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Wow, that's pretty funny. A massive assumption, of course, and untrue most certainly. Could you speak of your own experiences and let others speak of theirs? Without the judgement?

 

This is why I opened with "my 2ct", but if it pleases you better than read "I think I know why" because that is what I meant, and that is also why I keep trying p3dv2, I want to like it but do not, yet.

 

Furthermore, claiming my statement is untrue...isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? Browsing the forums seems to back up my claim. In the p3d forums, p3d is the best sim, in the xpx forums, xpx is the best etc. So if you ask if you should buy XPX in the XPX will probably yield mostly affirmative answers.

 

XPX isnt there yet either, for that matter, but at present my very humble opinion is that it offers more than p3d in terms of smoothness, addons. Ofc the weather engine is very bad, that is why I bought p3dv2 hoping for a better total sim experience.

 

I guess if someone askes to p3d or not, the more useful answer is  "P3Dv2.2: love it" as opposed to my views.  :P

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..........- but please at least give X Plane demo a try - just so you know.

That's what I did but I couldn't find anything attractive from my point of view. I prefer to stick with P3D v2.x but as the saying goes: "One man's meat is another man's poison"

Spirit

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Very difficult situation but here's my take as a long time flight simmer.

 

FSX is an unfinished broken unstable pig of a sim, requiring massive amounts of payware add-ons to be worth one's time.

 

P3D is the pig in nicer attire, but a pig none-the-less, also requiring many addons to be worthwhile.

 

And both are still 32 bit.

 

XPX may have the most potential IN THE FUTURE but has a long way to go right now, including good ATC (or a good ATC add-on) and viable AI traffic.  But it is 64 bit.

 

Reading the tea leaves about where to invest, I would go with XPX long term.  For now I will stay with FSX.  If and when PMDG releases a heavy for XPX AND the ATC and AI issues are addressed, I will ponder making a move then.  Trouble is, I am dubious that the ATC and AI issues are even priorities for Austin.

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Why do these threads always come up? Try the different flight sims either through a demo or buy them and if you don't like them, then get a refund. These threads lead to nothing but collecting opinions from others which certainly don't help to take your own decision. Everybody is different. Some like X-Plane and don't like P3D. I certainly love P3D and think X-Plane looks like a cartoon. But all these opinion are worthless to take a decision because you have to form your own subjective opinion to reach a decision. And for AVSIM it woud be a welcome relief to server loads when people stop raising these useless topics. Sorry to be harsh, but that's my opinion...

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Why do these threads always come up? Try the different flight sims either through a demo or buy them and if you don't like them, then get a refund.

 

Because for most of us funds are limited and I know of no software you can get refunded on because "you dont like it", sir.

 

Software EULAs are generally massively biased against the consumer.

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Because for most of us funds are limited and I know of no software you can get refunded on because "you dont like it", sir.

 

Software EULAs are generally massively biased against the consumer.

 

Sorry, but that's not true. Lockheed Martin has a very generous refund policy. A lot of people in this forum have tried P3D2, didn't like it and got a refund without any problem.

 

And X-Plane has a demo. What's the problem?

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I stand corrected on the matter, sir.

 

On another note...

 

IMHO FSX can still muster some good visuals:

 

2014-5-19_16-17-21-893_zpsa8596b3c.png

2014-6-26_10-25-40-478_zps7d32601d.png

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Nice pictures! And yes, FSX is certainly still a strong contender. It's still a close call between FSX and P3D if you take everything into account. There are pros and cons for both... But I think P3D is the future...

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But I think P3D is the future

 

If it can move to 64 bit, perhaps.

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Why do these threads always come up? Try the different flight sims either through a demo or buy them and if you don't like them, then get a refund. These threads lead to nothing but collecting opinions from others which certainly don't help to take your own decision. Everybody is different. Some like X-Plane and don't like P3D. I certainly love P3D and think X-Plane looks like a cartoon. But all these opinion are worthless to take a decision because you have to form your own subjective opinion to reach a decision. And for AVSIM it woud be a welcome relief to server loads when people stop raising these useless topics. Sorry to be harsh, but that's my opinion...

 

Not harsh, I feel the same way. Personally I think these threads keep coming up is because we simmers do not have a goto flightsim atm. FSX, p3d, XP all have some elements right, but none have the whole package.

 

And this is in a time where other companies produce stuff like DCS-A-10  / DCS world etc, that is visually stunning and, in my case, the fps limit is the refresh rate of my monitor...(let's not talk about games like farcry 3, with almost real visuals and 1000's of moving parts like leaves in the wind etc, screaming along >60 fps)

 

While it may be a space sim and not a flight sim, look at elite dangerous. Same there, visually stunning solid fps.

 

if you take that into consideration, I feel frustrated that I am left with unfinished or obsolete programs for flight simming. I for one hoped to find the goto sim with p3dv2. 

 

Ofc people can fly different sims, but personally I just like to invest my time and money into 1 sim for at least a couple of years and i think many ppl feel that way, thus these threads come up from time to time. 

 

Gross generalization on my part but: current available flight sims are all sub par (meaning fsx/p3dv2/XP), so it's like picking the best of the worst. And all that talk about which is the future, doesnt really rock my boat. How old is fsx? p3dv2 is marginally better in what 15 years? I'm 39 now, I would like to have a DCS like flightsim for civil aviation NOW, not in another 15 years. It's not like the technology is lacking.

 

fsx is the least to blame by the way, it's old.

 

/rant


edit to add:

 

for the OP: while im certainly no XP10 ######, you might want to try it (demo) if only for the hassle free installation and 0 tweaking. Adding scenery is a simple drag and drop in the correct folder, same with aircarft. You can even move the entire xp folder to another drive and start it no problem.

 

basic xp, plus some scenery from simheaven and a couple of free airports will give you an idea. Weather depiction sux bigtime though. 

 

I'm on a beta version now, but the stable releases have never crashed on me, ever. Alt tab all you want ;) 

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