Yes but an off field landing may have been avoided if he had taken other measures to restart the engine.

The key part of your statement is the word 'may'. Doing the things in your list may have gotten them killed or seriously injured because there is nothing in your list that has a guaranteed engine start let alone one that's soon enough to avoid having to put the aircraft down or smacking into something. The only thing your list of actions guarantees is that it changes the location of the crash.

 

Like I stated, the instructor made the correct choices.

The key part of your statement is the word 'may'. Doing the things in your list may have gotten them killed or seriously injured because there is nothing in your list that has a guaranteed engine start let alone one that's soon enough to avoid having to put the aircraft down or smacking into something. The only thing your list of actions guarantees is that it changes the location of the crash.Like I stated, the instructor made the correct choices.

I was tought when the engine quits you climb until you reach best glide,while doing that find a place to set down, and try to restart the engine. If you cant restart pop the door shutoff the fuel and get ready to land. He did a great job no doubt but if I was the PIC I would have tried some other things to restart the engine.

There's always a Monday morning quarterback in the crowd.

I was tought when the engine quits you climb until you reach best glide,while doing that find a place to set down, and try to restart the engine. If you cant restart pop the door shutoff the fuel and get ready to land. He did a great job no doubt but if I was the PIC I would have tried some other things to restart the engine.

You are one PIC I would not climb into an aircraft with.

 

Take a moment and review the video, check the aircraft's altitude and airspeed. Based on everything I see in the video, that instructor did... just as I've already stated... everything correctly.

You are one PIC I would not climb into an aircraft with.Take a moment and review the video, check the aircraft's altitude and airspeed. Based on everything I see in the video, that instructor did... just as I've already stated... everything correctly.

He was what looks like 1500 feet when the engine starts to fail, it doesn't take but a few seconds to switch tanks,adjust the mixture,hit the aux fuel pump switch ect. There was also what looked like a highway that they passed over which I would have landed on vs the field if I couldn't have got the engine restarted. Hind sight is 20/20 and I have no idea what caused the engine to fail, like I've said he did a great job but I would have tried a few things to get the engine restarted. I learned to fly in a heavily forested area with mountains all around so a clear landing spot is not always easy to find so in some cases you better hope to God the engine restarts or you'll be pulling branches out of your bum for a few weeks if your lucky enough to live through it.

It's difficult to tell what was wrong with the engine from the video. But obviously some power output problem. He seemed to change his mind as to what field to land in. If you've got power then that's ok. His landing speed was excesively fast and he ended up in a ditch. Had that ditch been any deeper they might not have walked away!!!

Not trying to sound like a monday morning quarterback here, but I'm still curious about that throttle pumping.

 

My actual flying experience is limited and pretty dated, but I remember that the carbs on the aircraft I flew did not have accelerator pumps so pumping the throttle would not add any fuel to the airstream unlike in my old cars.

 

Maybe aircraft carbs are different now? Was he trying to dislodge possible ice on the butterfly? 

 

Just curious, and I agree that his landing speed looked a little hot.

right on Ed

 

here's the path the pilot choose on google maps

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zglL8L_moK3s.kd-HujBBo3lw

I was rather surprised at the starboard turn to land in the much shorter field. I thought for sure he'd land on that very long and unobstructed field...

Curious to know if the A2A Cessna can simluate this type of failure. I'm not buying that throttle pumping is the only solution. There is never just ONE solution.

 

But at the time it's all he could concentrate on I guess.

Also, I decided to Google an engine failure for the Cessna. The first one is: http://www.beverlyflightcenter.com/pdfs/emergency/172EMERG.pdf

I assume the instructor decided very quickly that an emergency landing was required, and concentrated on that rather than trying to do something that may or may not have worked. I am no pilot, but that sounds like a very sensible decision to me.

This one provides more: http://www.geelongaviation.com.au/docs/KIT%20Emergency%20Checklist.pdf

Like I said... if anyone disagrees that the instructor did the correct thing... I don't want to get into an aircraft where you're flying it.

 

Based on what I see in the video, the instructor was very familiar with the problem they were having with the engine. Not a single one of you even considered that this was a moment where it is "Oh, I know what that means and we need to land now". Did it even cross your mind??

 

As for the location... makes sense... using the trees to stop the aircraft is actually a bit safer than attempting to slow down in tilled earth with runway tires and brakes.

Now it's time to 'go to school'.

 

The aircraft was a Cessna Model 152. The 152 has a single fuel shutoff valve and no tank select. Fuel flows by gravity from the two wing tanks to a fuel shutoff valve. With the valve in the ON position, fuel flows through a strainer to the carburetor.

 

Fuel crossflows between the two wing tanks without restriction.

 

ENGINE FAILURE DURING FLIGHT

• Airspeed -- 60 KIAS.
• Carburetor Heat -- ON.
• Primer -- IN and LOCKED.
• Fuel Shutoff Valve -- ON.
• Mixture -- RICH.
• Ignition Switch -- BOTH (or START if propeller is stopped.).

That's the complete checklist for a 152. Best glidespeed is ~60 KIAS... varying due to weight.

 

Ignition switch is left lower panel. Primer is all the way far left lower panel. I believe the fuel shutoff valve is going to be above the windshield since it's a gravity-fed system.

 

As I've stated... the instructor made the correct decisions.

I assume the instructor decided very quickly that an emergency landing was required, and concentrated on that rather than trying to do something that may or may not have worked. I am no pilot, but that sounds like a very sensible decision to me.

 

You are absolutely right, and even if the engine came back alive I would have done a precautionary landing. Good job from the instructor, while it's not the best, they both walked away from it.

 

Just a few points :

 

- Keep your glide speed constant, just trim and forget.

- If you are too high when you turn base or 1/3 point don't go from 0 to full flaps but be more progressive with them and take a bite out of the field, "extend downwind" after turning base.

- In the case you are still a bit high or fast, nose down and maximum side slip

- Avoid to turn this sharply close to vs0 and at this height

 

Check-lists are good only if you have time to do them, they might not save your life, a good landing will

Once the pilot has decided on a forced landing the checkllst changes.

 

FORCED LANDINGS
EMERGENCY LANDING WITHOUT ENGINE POWER

(1) Airspeed--65 KIAS (flaps UP) 55 KIAS (flaps DOWN).

(2) Mixture—IDLE CUT-OFF.

(3) FuelShutoffValve—OFF.

(4) IgnitionSwitch—OFF.

(5) Wing Flaps-AS REQUIRED (30°recommended).

(6) MasterSwitch—OFF.

(7) Doors—UNLATCH PRIOR TO TOUCH DOWN.

(8) Touchdown-SLIGHTLY TAIL LOW.

(9) Brakes—APPLY HEAVILY.

 

 

 

I would be interested to know why the pilot changed from the longer field to the shorter field at a relatively low altitude.

Listening to the audio carefully, the engine was still on, and each time he pumped he would get some RPM from it. So it wasn't a COMPLETE engine failure.

NOTE: You can't hear the engine directly, but you can hear the interference it causes within the audio.