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Aviation Colleges With Bachelors Degree+Commercial License

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Hey people,

 

I am a student in US, CT. Currently I am Junior and will graduate in 2016.

 

Right now I am trying to find the colleges that I want to apply in future years.

 

For now Embry-Riddle Miami, is my first choice. (Please don't hate and disagree, just help.)

 

I wanted to know if you know any good Aviation colleges, those provide Licenses up to Commercial and Bachelors degree at the same time as Embry-Riddle.

 

I don't care where it is, I don't care how expensive it is.

 

I am still considering all of the options and I will need any help possible :)

 

Thanks.

 

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It all depends on what you want, and of course, what you can afford. Embry Riddle Daytona and Prescott, University of North Dakota, Purdue, and Ohio State all have very good aviation degree and training programs. They will come at a cost of course. With that type of University training, it is very structured and procedure based training aimed towards preparing students for the airlines, corporate, and/or military. Contacts and networking through them are also excellent. You will run into grads from these programs nearly everywhere you go in US aviation. Money-wise you will take a large hit, averaging 40k a year with flight costs. In the end you will more than likely end up instructing for 1-2 years afterwards building hours to qualify for applying to the airlines. Usually though it is very easy to get an instructing position at the university after all of your training. 

 

The other option is choosing a college/degree of your choice, but doing your training through schools like ATP or American Flyers, which run 'fast-track' type programs. These are fast and dirty, they get you what you need in terms of the certificates, at a lower cost and lower timeframe. The drawback is the quality you walk away with. I don't refer to the quality of instruction though, I've known instructors from both schools who were excellent, but it is the pace that is the concern. Retention and correlation especially in the long term don't always come easy when drinking from a firehose. It gets you what you need in terms of certificates and ratings, more quickly and cheaper than a big university. These schools also usually have good contacts and ways into the industry. More than likely though you will still have to instruct at that same school or part 61 to gain the hours you need afterwards, same as with the big universities. 

 

The certificates and the hours you hold don't come with the names of the school where you got them. Your resume probably will though. My opinion: If money is of no real concern, you want the big name, and you want to walk away with more knowledge than you know what to do with after each course, go big university (ERAU, UND, PU, OSU, etc.). If you want the certificates and the hours quick, go with the specialized flight schools (ATP, AF, etc.) with a 4 year degree from any college/university. 

 

Largely your actions, personality, and contacts will define where you will go in the US aviation industry. Where you get your certs and ratings may not matter at all. There's a lot of haters out there for both sides, big uni, specialized school, and part 61. In my opinion you just have to weigh the issue based on reputation, time, and money.

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I'm not a pilot, but I recommend you give this guys videos a shot. He has a lot of questions regarding being an airline pilot, and what it actually takes to get there.

 

http://www.youtube.com/askcaptainscott

 

He also has some startling information on how much some pilots make before hitting Airlines.

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Arizona State University offers a program where you can get your commercial license while working towards a degree. The largest plane you work with is a CRJ-700, so you will be well prepared for regional carriers. (IIRC) They also guarantee you an interview with Mesa Airlines, which is one of U.S. Airways Express' largest operators. You pay for your first three years of training but during your fourth year you actually earn money because by that time you have your instructor's license and teach the new students. So, you gain hours and make money which will be useful during applications and can cut time post-college trying to get hours up. 

 

I'm not a pilot either but was interested in this program when I still wanted to be a pilot, I don't think I want to anymore!  :P

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It all depends on what you want, and of course, what you can afford. Embry Riddle Daytona and Prescott, University of North Dakota, Purdue, and Ohio State all have very good aviation degree and training programs.

Thanks sir. I appreciate your help. With the information you provided, it seems legitimate that I chose Big Universities. But the part I am stuck in, is when you said I will spend few years instructing after graduating to get hours. Can you please provide more information about this matter. Again thanks for this inspiring and useful information :) 

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You will have to spend extra time instructing to get hours. Usually aviation schools provide the bare minimum necessary for getting the license, and a regional WILL NOT hire you with the bare minimum number of hours. That's why my response:

 

Arizona State University offers a program where you can get your commercial license while working towards a degree. The largest plane you work with is a CRJ-700, so you will be well prepared for regional carriers. (IIRC) They also guarantee you an interview with Mesa Airlines, which is one of U.S. Airways Express' largest operators. You pay for your first three years of training but during your fourth year you actually earn money because by that time you have your instructor's license and teach the new students. So, you gain hours and make money which will be useful during applications and can cut time post-college trying to get hours up. 

 

I'm not a pilot either but was interested in this program when I still wanted to be a pilot, I don't think I want to anymore!  :P

 

about ASU is very useful, because it is fast paced and you instruct DURING school, so you won't have to spend so much if any time outside of school gaining hours.

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Thanks sir. I appreciate your help. With the information you provided, it seems legitimate that I chose Big Universities. But the part I am stuck in, is when you said I will spend few years instructing after graduating to get hours. Can you please provide more information about this matter. Again thanks for this inspiring and useful information :) 

 

As Jeremy has stated you will need a certain number of hours worth of total time to qualify for your rATP (restricted ATP) or full ATP, if you plan on flying in the US. The amount of hours required is broken down in a few ways.

 

Broken down simply:

 

Full ATP requirements: 23 years of age, 1500 hours total time (TT), 500 cross country time(XC), 100 night, etc.

 

Restricted ATP requirements:

- Former Military pilot= 750 total time

 or

- Training done part 141 with a 4 year bachelor's in an aviation degree (at least 60 credit hours): 1,000 hours total time, 200 hours cross country time

 or

- Training done part 141 with 2 year associates in an aviation degree (at least 30 credit hours): 1,250 hours total time, 200 hours cross country time

 or 

- Training done part 61 or other: 1,500 hours total time, 200 hours cross country time.

 

There is also a new exemption for part 142 training that allows pilots trained under that part to have the same lower requirements of 1,000 hours total time. You won't have to worry about part 142 training though, practically no one out there does it anymore, big school's are nearly all part 141.

 

The source for everything I just listed there, you can search around the FAA website, but also you can read it straight from the regulations (if you're into that sorta thing  :lol:  ) here at part 61.159 and 61.160: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&r=PART&n=14y2.0.1.1.2#14:2.0.1.1.2.7.1.7

 

 

Now, that is quite a chunk of time needed, even if you qualify for the 141/142 exemption to lower it to 1,000 hours TT and 200 XC. You will definitely not get that much in training (if you do, you should be worried and reconsidering...). So, you will have to find a job flying that helps build those much needed hours. The number 1 job right out of training? Funnily enough it is instructing. Big schools always hire instructors, and especially lean on ones they have trained. Most universities will offer you an instructing position before you even graduate (it was in my case and almost everyone I've worked with). 

 

If you need the 1,000 hours TT and 200 XC for an rATP, you can probably achieve that in a year to a year and a half of instructing, if you have a relatively constant workload. If you need to get the 1,250 or 1,500 TT and 200 XC for the rATP, you can figure two years or a little more. The most difficult would be if you were to go for the full ATP. It also requires 1,500 TT, but it also requires 500 XC. That 500 XC is a killer, and can be pretty hard to get unless you have extra money to burn or get creative on your flights with students.

 

Regionals will hire you with an rATP, so don't worry too much about the difference between the rATP and full ATP. Typically the airline will take care of that when you qualify for upgrade.

 

Instructing is extremely rewarding though. Don't let that worry you. The upside if you end up not liking it is that you won't be doing it forever. Do your best while you're there, and remember that you were a student too at some point. Work for them and you'll be rewarded in the end of that one or two years with a few tons of metal, some turbine engines at your fingertips, and a hundred or so pax in the back.

 

Hope that helps clarify a little bit, feel free to ask anymore questions.

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Instructing is extremely rewarding though. Don't let that worry you. The upside if you end up not liking it is that you won't be doing it forever. Do your best while you're there, and remember that you were a student too at some point. Work for them and you'll be rewarded in the end of that one or two years with a few tons of metal, some turbine engines at your fingertips, and a hundred or so pax in the back.
 
Hope that helps clarify a little bit, feel free to ask anymore questions.

 

Thanks :) Right now my first choice is Embry-Riddle and luckily in August, 2013 FAA added new rules, where pilots who graduated from Embry-Riddle and 4 Year Bachelor's+License schools will be required to have 1000 hours of flight time, but others 1500. 

 

The only thing left in my mind is, I am an international kid. When I instruct as a pilot, will they provide me with a place to stay? Also what is the average salary or hourly income?

 

Thanks again. You helped me a lot to understand those things :)

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The only thing left in my mind is, I am an international kid.

 

If you are an International kid then I assume you are saying that you are not a U.S. Citizen. If that is the case there are a few more hurdles you need to overcome. You need approval to be trained by the TSA. AOPA has some good information here http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Flight-Instructor-Resources/AOPAs-Guide-to-TSAs-Alien-Flight-Training-Citizenship-Validation-Rule

 

I am sure whatever college you choose will be able to assist you.

 

If you want more info feel free to PM me.

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As Jeremy has stated you will need a certain number of hours worth of total time to qualify for your rATP (restricted ATP) or full ATP, if you plan on flying in the US. The amount of hours required is broken down in a few ways.

This is what my son is currently doing through Texas aviation. He looked at all the big schools, like Embry and visited with many ATP pilots. Just BIG money is what they are!

Edited by n4gix
Removed rediculously excessive quote.

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Hey people,

 

I am a student in US, CT. Currently I am Junior and will graduate in 2016.

 

Right now I am trying to find the colleges that I want to apply in future years.

 

For now Embry-Riddle Miami, is my first choice. (Please don't hate and disagree, just help.)

 

I wanted to know if you know any good Aviation colleges, those provide Licenses up to Commercial and Bachelors degree at the same time as Embry-Riddle.

 

I don't care where it is, I don't care how expensive it is.

 

I am still considering all of the options and I will need any help possible :)

 

Thanks.

I'm on the same track except in a senior in college and already have my license. You have two options A. Go to a college with an air force ROTC program and join the air force and let them pay for your training which is way better than anything you'll get in the civilian world and get paid about $3500 a month doing it(after college) and start flying C-17s or whatever you get.B. got to a college with an aviation school pay out the wazoo for your training just to get a job instructing in a Cessna for a few years to build time making about $1800 a month, then apply to the regionals and make about $20,000 a year. The difference is that if you go the air force route you only have to have 750hrs total to get an airline job vs 1200 with a university and the major airlines prefer ex military pilots. Personally I'm trying to get into an air force reserve unit.

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I'm on the same track except in a senior in college and already have my license. You have two options A. Go to a college with an air force ROTC program and join the air force and let them pay for your training which is way better than anything you'll get in the civilian world and get paid about $3500 a month doing it(after college) and start flying C-17s or whatever you get.B. got to a college with an aviation school pay out the wazoo for your training just to get a job instructing in a Cessna for a few years to build time making about $1800 a month, then apply to the regionals and make about $20,000 a year. The difference is that if you go the air force route you only have to have 750hrs total to get an airline job vs 1200 with a university and the major airlines prefer ex military pilots. Personally I'm trying to get into an air force reserve unit.

I think he'd have to become a US citizen to join the Air Force after ROTC, or any US branch of the armed services, no?

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Here's a good website for those considering a career in aviation:

 

http://thetruthabouttheprofession.weebly.com/

 

Quoting from his webpage in the Some Final Advice From Me section:

 

"Do not get a Bachelor's Degree in an aviation related field"

 

But ultimately the choice is yours

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I think he'd have to become a US citizen to join the Air Force after ROTC, or any US branch of the armed services, no?

yes but I believe the citizenship process is spead up if your joining the military.

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One thing to note is that if you go the military route, yes it's "paid for", but you'll be obligated to them for several years after you get done with ROTC. I have many other qualms with the military route that I won't expand on here, but that's one to consider.

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I graduated from San Jose State University ( heart of Silicon Valley) in the mid 80's. SJSU had a great Aeronautical Engineering 4 year degree program. Upon graduating you were awarded a BS degree in AE and a pilots license. A friend of mine went through the program and got a gig upon graduation flying mail from KSFO to Eureka in a DC-3 (FO). Mind you this was in the mid 80's. They had a 727 donated by UAL at one point that they use for training. Don't know if the program is still offered but worth looking at SJSU. Go Spartans.

 

Cheers,

Brian

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Here's a good website for those considering a career in aviation:

 

http://thetruthabouttheprofession.weebly.com/

 

Quoting from his webpage in the Some Final Advice From Me section:

 

"Do not get a Bachelor's Degree in an aviation related field"

 

But ultimately the choice is yours

 

I agree with that statement. You need something to fall back on in case, God forbid, something happens rendering you unable to be in an aviation field.

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Hmm. I don't even think about military option. It is just not for me and for my family. Also about the Major not in Aviation for college, I will take Computer Science, if any "Important" reasons take Embry-Riddle and University of North Dakota out of my choice list. I am still searching and looking for any possible education path and make a list out of it. At the end, I want to chose what suits me best. For now Embry-Riddle(and colleges like it including Uni of North Dakota) looks better then anything. Thanks :)

++ If you have any stories or any ideas about this field, please provide some information so that I get more information :) 

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Get you license, get your instructor ratings and build your time. Getting an aviation degree might quite frankly be a waste of your money. If you want a good backup plan, learn a skill or do some kind of vocational training. It can never make any sense to spend over $100K to get a license and degree to work for pennies....

 

In addition to this, having a degree does not significantly increase your chances of being hired by an airline unless it's a major airline that specifically requires it.

 

In the end, it's up to you if you really want to go to a university but many haven't and they are doing just fine. When you join a regional airline you will meet others who didn't get degrees and you will have the same salary they do.

 

 

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I am not going to say ERU is not a good choice. However, like everything in life take the time to research and find a location that is going to give you the best bang for the buck. I got an Aviation Degree from Northwestern (NSU) back when ERU was a glimmer. I have no regrets with getting an Aviation Degree nor my choice of University. The four year experience of earning the sheepskin is well worth the time invested. The program, like so many part 141/142 schools was first class.

 

 ERU is a first rate Aviation Program and is renowned for its innovation and quality of training. However, any advancements that ERU makes is usually quickly picked up by the "other" big schools. Unless you really want to be on the ground floor or just have an allure to ERU you can get the same education and ratings from others schools for less money. Also its not like ERU is like MIT or Duke. It's that pilot school down in Florida. Now, I understand having your heart set on something, so if it is what you really want then by all means go for it.

 

 I went the military route and was fairly successful, flying most of my 22 years and retiring at a fairly senior rank. I also had the experience of a lifetime having flown to places that even airline pilots can only imagine. Post retirement I hired right into a major training corporation. I know allot of ERU graduates both from their undergrad and grad programs. Like any school they get out of it what they put into it. As far as being better prepared for an aviation career then anyone else? That is not my experience. I have trained guys with an ERU degree and others and neither one had any particular strength over the other.

 

  Flying larger advanced aircraft is an expensive proposition and that Cessna time at most aviation schools are just basic skill builders. Even those that offer advanced simulators or other "complex" aircraft are generally still not over prepared. Lets face it airlines and corporate aircraft don't have Garmin 1000s (OK a few G1000s are in corporate) so all that time in an expensive G1000 Cessna is sometimes counterproductive. We have to untrain your G1000 habits and replace them with the avionics in the aircraft your are going to fly. Even those that offer RJ Type ratings is not 100% helpful. The big thing use to be to get your 737 type rating, but as the joke went "thats great if your going to work for Southwest." An ERJ or CRJ type is great in you have a type but unless you get hired into an RJ that money is wasted. OK you have some reference when talking high altitude aerodynamics and know what Mach Tucking is, but guess what. We teach all of that. If you get hired into a Cessna Sovereign then the $60K you spent on a RJ is mostly wasted. Spend your money wisely.

 

 The days of corporate and airline pilots without some sort of Bachelors degree are waining. Yes I know a handful, but they continue to get older and it is their tens of thousands of hours of experience that keeps them hired. Very few young guys come though our doors without at least a Bachelors. Yes, we all know those guys who don't have a degree and continue to be successful. But, again I teach pilots and can let you know for a fact they are the exception and not the norm. If big iron is your goal do yourself right and get a degree. If you prefer AgCats then you can most likely skip the degree.

 

 Finally, while there are a few real pilots and even fewer professional pilots on these forums I'd recommend you take this discussion off a Flight Sim forum and onto a professional pilot forum. AOPA is a great place and there are a few other places where lots of pilots hang out. I am not discounting any of the information or people here as I am a pilot and an FS junkie (yes I know sounds like the start of an intro for an AA meeting.) But, you can get allot more professional view points from a professional pilot forum.

 

 In all best of luck with your endeavors. In 20 some years you may be the one giving the advice.

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I am not going to say ERU is not a good choice. However, like everything in life take the time to research and find a location that is going to give you the best bang for the buck. I got an Aviation Degree from Northwestern (NSU) back when ERU was a glimmer. I have no regrets with getting an Aviation Degree nor my choice of University. The four year experience of earning the sheepskin is well worth the time invested. The program, like so many part 141/142 schools was first class.

 

 ERU is a first rate Aviation Program and is renowned for its innovation and quality of training. However, any advancements that ERU makes is usually quickly picked up by the "other" big schools. Unless you really want to be on the ground floor or just have an allure to ERU you can get the same education and ratings from others schools for less money. Also its not like ERU is like MIT or Duke. It's that pilot school down in Florida. Now, I understand having your heart set on something, so if it is what you really want then by all means go for it.

 

 I went the military route and was fairly successful, flying most of my 22 years and retiring at a fairly senior rank. I also had the experience of a lifetime having flown to places that even airline pilots can only imagine. Post retirement I hired right into a major training corporation. I know allot of ERU graduates both from their undergrad and grad programs. Like any school they get out of it what they put into it. As far as being better prepared for an aviation career then anyone else? That is not my experience. I have trained guys with an ERU degree and others and neither one had any particular strength over the other.

 

  Flying larger advanced aircraft is an expensive proposition and that Cessna time at most aviation schools are just basic skill builders. Even those that offer advanced simulators or other "complex" aircraft are generally still not over prepared. Lets face it airlines and corporate aircraft don't have Garmin 1000s (OK a few G1000s are in corporate) so all that time in an expensive G1000 Cessna is sometimes counterproductive. We have to untrain your G1000 habits and replace them with the avionics in the aircraft your are going to fly. Even those that offer RJ Type ratings is not 100% helpful. The big thing use to be to get your 737 type rating, but as the joke went "thats great if your going to work for Southwest." An ERJ or CRJ type is great in you have a type but unless you get hired into an RJ that money is wasted. OK you have some reference when talking high altitude aerodynamics and know what Mach Tucking is, but guess what. We teach all of that. If you get hired into a Cessna Sovereign then the $60K you spent on a RJ is mostly wasted. Spend your money wisely.

 

 The days of corporate and airline pilots without some sort of Bachelors degree are waining. Yes I know a handful, but they continue to get older and it is their tens of thousands of hours of experience that keeps them hired. Very few young guys come though our doors without at least a Bachelors. Yes, we all know those guys who don't have a degree and continue to be successful. But, again I teach pilots and can let you know for a fact they are the exception and not the norm. If big iron is your goal do yourself right and get a degree. If you prefer AgCats then you can most likely skip the degree.

 

 Finally, while there are a few real pilots and even fewer professional pilots on these forums I'd recommend you take this discussion off a Flight Sim forum and onto a professional pilot forum. AOPA is a great place and there are a few other places where lots of pilots hang out. I am not discounting any of the information or people here as I am a pilot and an FS junkie (yes I know sounds like the start of an intro for an AA meeting.) But, you can get allot more professional view points from a professional pilot forum.

 

 In all best of luck with your endeavors. In 20 some years you may be the one giving the advice.

Sir, Thank you for this great answer :) 

The reason ERU is my first choice is, from my perspective other options are nothing more then dream or simply impossible. 

For example, because I am the only kid in family, my parents will reject any idea of military. But I would like to be on military and get training...

The best option for me is a  college that gives Bachelor's and pilot training at the same time for 4 years, then doing instructing for few years to get my flight hours.

As a backup plan, I have medals and certificates from International Computer Olympias and Regional Degrees on computer programming. Which I think at least will not let me down...

For a job after graduating and filling my required flight time to my log, I will apply to some regional airlines in US, but I would rather work in Europe because there are many benefits of being pilot in Europe and having your degree from US.

Also for the AOPA, thanks.... I will ask the same question over there to compare answers :)

 

But if anyone knows any college that gives Bachelor's and Pilot training at the same amount of time, please provide some information :) 

 

Thanks

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I'm assuming you want to be an airline pilot?  So the quick run down is three words:

 

Seniority Seniority Seniority

 

The faster you get out of college with your ratings and get to ATP minimums, the better.  I went the Embry-Riddle "Worldwide" route because it was much cheaper than moving to Daytona (and I was able to complete flight training locally much cheaper as well). 

 

Much has changed in the wake of Flight 3407, including the prerequisites for an ATP and the price of getting to that certificate (seriously ridiculous what non-ATP guys need now just to take the written).  What it will do short term is create a demand for qualified pilots at the regionals -- keep in mind the majors are also coming up on a "pilot shortage".  In the mean time, your short term goal should be to get a degree quickly and get to the regionals to start logging 121 multi-crew jet time.  Get to the regionals by getting quality time by instructing or whatever it is you can line up (especially instrument instruction).  Remember the magic number for the regionals is 1,500 hours.

 

So to answer your specific question:  Find a nice two year program that has an articulation agreement with an aeronautical university.  Typically you can receive an associates in something aviation related as quickly as you can get the credit hours, and then flow right into the bachelor's program and be finished within 3-3 1/2 years.  I'll use my local school as an example...

 

http://www.gtcc.edu/about-gtcc/campus-info-and-directions/aviation-campus.aspx

http://worldwide.erau.edu/locations/greensboro/index.html

 

You said cost isn't a concern, but I disagree. In this business the less debt you have, the better. No kidding.  That being said, two local schools in the area provide substantial discounts for students in the above program.

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I'm assuming you want to be an airline pilot?  So the quick run down is three words:

 

Seniority Seniority Seniority

 

The faster you get out of college with your ratings and get to ATP minimums, the better.  I went the Embry-Riddle "Worldwide" route because it was much cheaper than moving to Daytona (and I was able to complete flight training locally much cheaper as well). 

 

Much has changed in the wake of Flight 3407, including the prerequisites for an ATP and the price of getting to that certificate (seriously ridiculous what non-ATP guys need now just to take the written).  What it will do short term is create a demand for qualified pilots at the regionals -- keep in mind the majors are also coming up on a "pilot shortage".  In the mean time, your short term goal should be to get a degree quickly and get to the regionals to start logging 121 multi-crew jet time.  Get to the regionals by getting quality time by instructing or whatever it is you can line up (especially instrument instruction).  Remember the magic number for the regionals is 1,500 hours.

 

So to answer your specific question:  Find a nice two year program that has an articulation agreement with an aeronautical university.  Typically you can receive an associates in something aviation related as quickly as you can get the credit hours, and then flow right into the bachelor's program and be finished within 3-3 1/2 years.  I'll use my local school as an example...

 

http://www.gtcc.edu/about-gtcc/campus-info-and-directions/aviation-campus.aspx

http://worldwide.erau.edu/locations/greensboro/index.html

 

You said cost isn't a concern, but I disagree. In this business the less debt you have, the better. No kidding.  That being said, two local schools in the area provide substantial discounts for students in the above program.

I definitely agree with you. Believe me if I was American I would chose that path... 

But if I go to a community college, despite I have to say this, but I will - my family will not ... um ... like it...

I don't know how to explain it... Because people who are in US from my country went to community college, just because their grades were bad and all those things. 

I don't care actually - I just need my degree and licences - but my family and people in such a small country will just hate the idea and add me to the losers list. I know it sounds stupid, but it is true.

 

That is the reason I am going to an prestigious college - at least I am dreaming about it. I feel like I am stuck and don't know what to do. 

 

Also, can you please provide what will the difference be, if I go to ERU and get my degree and licence in 4 years and +2 years of instructing to get my flight hours required for regional... Also FAA reduced fight hour limit for regionals in August, 2013 from 1500 to 1000...

 

Thanks...

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Edit: Never mind.  I'm out of this one.

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I know someone that studied at Mount Hood Community College in Oregon. She wanted to be a pilot so bad.

 

Now she works for the FAA. I don't know what she does, but I would imagine that's a decent living.

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