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slimfly

Beta testers....

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I'm confused Phillip, do you want help with your problem? Or are you just out to be rude?

From the post you linked to, it's not clear whether you have downloaded the SP1b, and installed it following the instructions provided. Someone in that post asked you the same thing and you were pretty rude to them as well. Anyway, go and do that and see if your issue reoccurs. If it doesn't reoccur, I'm sure you'll be back to apologise for your lack of manners? I'll just wait here... ^_^

If you still have problems, you haven't provided enough information for anyone to help you out really. It's not clear whether you get this issue on every occasion, or just get it under specific circumstances. You don't mention what autopilot modes are engaged, you don't mention specifically what happens (saying that the "SP1 goes completely bananas from out of nowhere" really doesn't give us much to go on).

Before you go criticising the beta team for doing such an obviously shoddy job of testing the SP, make the reasonable and necessary efforts to ensure YOU are doing things correctly, then come back here and we'll happily help you if you still have issues.
 

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It is simply amazing what you guys DON'T ran into of problems during your tests - I wonder how you actually fly this thing..?!

 

Guess by the remarks you made you could have  found all the bugs  and done  a better  job  than the beta guys  did.

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It is simply amazing what you guys DON'T ran into of problems during your tests - I wonder how you actually fly this thing..?! :mad:

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/448480-777lw-with-sp1-sudden-abnormal-behaviour/

 

Man...I'm completely sorry that I didn't have the free time outside of my main job, consulting for at least two of my friends who run their own businesses, and beta testing (not to mention actually having a life) to test every one of the features on the plane.

 

Moreover, you have to understand that computers are complex beasts.  Programs run differently, and therefore run into different issues, on different hardware.  Some issues that end users see aren't seen at all by the beta teams because we simply run different hardware.

 

It's literally impossible to test programs on every single piece of hardware, in every possible combination.  This is the whole reason for support systems, actually.  Even if the beta teams nailed down every issue on their own machines, some would still get "missed" because their hardware didn't cause issues with the programming.

 

Based on your other thread noting that you somehow missed SP1b coming out (by not reading the stickies, which is how they've run things for years - literally), I'm guessing you also missed the memo on deleting pre-SP1 panel states prior to installing SP1.  My bet is that your issues are being caused by panel states from pre-SP1 being used in the SP1 plane.

 

 

 

Instead of casting aspersions elsewhere, it's often best to look inward first to ensure you're not causing your own problems.  Beyond that, never go after someone for volunteering their own time to help create a better product for you in the end.  Even if it still has issues, beta teams help to really bring down the number of issues that make it through in the final product.

 

I'm gonna go cry in the corner now for failing you, though.  We clearly should've caught those issues that didn't pop up on our systems...

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Moreover, you have to understand that computers are complex beasts.  Programs run differently, and therefore run into different issues, on different hardware.  Some issues that end users see aren't seen at all by the beta teams because we simply run different hardware.

 

It's literally impossible to test programs on every single piece of hardware, in every possible combination.  This is the whole reason for support systems, actually.  Even if the beta teams nailed down every issue on their own machines, some would still get "missed" because their hardware didn't cause issues with the programming.

 

 

 

Hi Kyle

 

First of all, thanks for your wise and profound approach to my spontaneous reaction as a result of way too many hours of frustration :wink:  

 

Believe me, I know all about peoples individual computer setups and unique problems caused by that fact!

However, the severe error I describe here: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/448480-777lw-with-sp1-sudden-abnormal-behaviour/page-2#entry3053490 was actually being answered through a ticket support AFTER I wrote this topic in the forum. The ticket support wrote to me that my SP1 problem was already well known and NOT unique to me and a fix would come up soon (SP1b). Now when this error actually turns out to be well known, I just can't understand why you guys haven't ran into the same problem with the core SP1 before it was released to the public?! That's all there really is to it from my point of view.     

 

Based on your other thread noting that you somehow missed SP1b coming out (by not reading the stickies, which is how they've run things for years - literally), I'm guessing you also missed the memo on deleting pre-SP1 panel states prior to installing SP1.  My bet is that your issues are being caused by panel states from pre-SP1 being used in the SP1 plane.

 

No!, I was aware of this issue and deleted all saved states and flightplans prior to the core SP1 update.

 

Best regards, Phillip

 

 

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Now when this error actually turns out to be well known, I just can't understand why you guys haven't ran into the same problem with the core SP1 before it was released to the public?!

 

Well, it could be well known, because it happened to some of the other users, who were, well, you know, not betatesters...

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I just can't understand why you guys haven't ran into the same problem with the core SP1 before it was released to the public?!

 

So you're apparently aware that different hardware treats programs differently, but you're still somehow baffled that beta testers don't see every possible issue on their individual hardware setups?

 

If you look back at the initial 777 release threads, you'll see a lot of issues with certain rudder pedals (I forget which, mostly because I don't have rudder pedals).  If I don't have said rudder pedals, how on earth am I supposed to find and troubleshoot that issue?  I can't.  Similar concept can be said for people with nvidia GPUs versus AMDs; or CH Pro yokes versus Saitek X-52s; and so on.

 

This is one of the reasons people argue for public beta programs, and in that way, their argument is valid (and I'm guessing this is also the reason PMDG is choosing to allow people to download pre-RTM SPs/updates via the OC in the future).  At the same time, there are many reasons why public betas can be very difficult.  This forum and even some of the beta team emails are evidence.  How many times do you see "THIS IS WRONG" when it's actually behaving normally?

 

I've admitted it before, and I'll admit it now:

Even I pinged the team about the AP disconnect feature.  I'd been so used to being able to quickly double-press the AP DISCO button without waiting that I flagged it as not working properly.  Things like this only serve to clutter and distract from valid reports.

 

Now magnify that by the sheer numbers of public beta participants...

 

Again:

Advantage of public beta: you usually catch more in the end because hardware setups vary so much across the larger sample.

Disadvantage: you usually get inundated with a whole bunch of false positives.

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Kyle for some reason you bring a quote from me out of the necessary context here!

 

In this case it is certainly not an individual matter.

Please note what I wrote to you:

 

The ticket support wrote to me that my SP1 problem was already well known and NOT unique to me and a fix would come up soon (SP1b). Now when this error actually turns out to be well known, I just can't understand why you guys haven't ran into the same problem with the core SP1 before it was released to the public?! That's all there really is to it from my point of view.

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Yes but the support reply doesn't seem to acknowledge that the problem was well known before the release

And it was constantly emphasized by Rob that this is more of a stability release with some fixes thrown in

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Yes but the support reply doesn't seem to acknowledge that the problem was well known before the release

And it was constantly emphasized by Rob that this is more of a stability release with some fixes thrown in

 

Not exactly sure what you're pointing at here..?!

 

Anyway, here is what the PMDG Support wrote to me:

 

Yes,  we are aware of the issue and it has been addressed in the SP1B update we are testing right now.  The fault occurs when the Aircraft reaches a point in the flightplan with either a discontinuity or no approach phase.  This caused the FMC to run an infinite calculation which caused the issue but that has now been corrected.   We hope to have the SP1B update available for you very shortly.
 
 
Paul Gollnick

Technical Support

PMDG Simulations, LLC

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I'm interested to know how PMDG selects the beta testers - do they select testers using different rigs, configurations, etc.?

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To the OP:  I think you can consider yourself rather fortunate getting the responses that you did whilst starting off the thread with such a tirade!   Those are the types of posts that I read and ignore because they start a 40 page long argument.   Just try to keep the frustration at bay when posting here.  

 

Regards

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To the OP:  I think you can consider yourself rather fortunate getting the responses that you did whilst starting off the thread with such a tirade!   Those are the types of posts that I read and ignore because they start a 40 page long argument.   Just try to keep the frustration at bay when posting here.  

 

Regards

 

Wouuuuuuh...

What's your problem, man?!

This is the free part of the world Sir, and of course anyone is fully allowed to make any statement as long as one stay within the forum rules.

Beta testers here are basically superb at their job and certainly wise enough to answer for themselves when facing occasional criticism!   

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